James: You maybe already answered this,
but has there been a season
in which you've struggled
with being burned out as a pastor?
And if so, what helped you
to get out of that season?
Mack: Well, in the last 18 years
of pastoring in the same church,
I don't think I've had burnout.
What I would call that:
seasons of discouragement,
seasons of weariness, tiredness.
But we have to learn to pace ourselves.
We have to learn to intentionally rest.
Renew ourselves.
Step aside and rest awhile
as Jesus told His disciples.
And I think what's helped me to avoid
sinking into times like that
is being intentional about times of rest,
times of going to a lake house
three days with my wife.
And literally doing nothing.
No agenda. No schedule.
No social media.
Reading my Bible.
Taking a nap.
Being with her.
Sitting on the back porch looking at the lake.
No schedule.
Just unwind.
I have a pastor friend of mine
who after 40 years of ministry one day,
his body literally shut down.
He was used to preaching and teaching
six times a week.
He ran five miles every day.
He was athletic.
And one day his body shut down
and he had a breakdown.
And what was determined ultimately
was the ministry, the teaching,
the lack of breaks -
his body could not continue
to go on the adrenaline physically.
The adrenaline needed to preach
and be before people.
It was overload.
His body finally said:
I can't take anymore. I'm stopping.
(incomplete thought)
And he recovered, but he had to stop
doing 40% of what he had been doing.
John Piper said we have to pay
our debts to our body.
And so we have to know ourselves.
We have to intentionally plan time off.
Vacations are a spiritual thing.
They're spiritual.
To get away, there's all kinds of effects,
spiritually, emotionally,
mentally, physically,
socially.
We've got to have that change
to disconnect and reboot.
And so that's what I've learned.
We renew our strength that way.
And it's actually a spiritual thing
because it enables us to have longevity
of fruitful ministry more.
James: Have there been any other pastors
who you've known
who have gotten burned out
in the pastoral ministry
and they never got back into it?
And if so, what was going on there?
Mack: I have several close friends
over the years,
that that very thing happened to them.
In their cases,
they were pastoring churches -
these were very good men,
sound men, good preachers,
real pastor's hearts.
They weren't hirelings.
And their churches treated them wrong
or put pressure on them wrong
or were demanding too much of them.
And they began to burn out.
And/or they were forced out of their church
because they weren't producing enough.
And the power players in the church
were controlling things
which is obviously very unbiblical.
Your church government
and what kind of leadership you have
will control that issue.
Because when you have
a plurality in ministry
and a team of elders
and a team of deacons that serve
at the pleasure of the elders,
a couple of couples can't resist a team
and try to attack them.
But anyway, I saw these friends
have to leave pastoring.
They were wounded, discouraged,
and then they're at this crossroads.
Can I take it again?
I'm too hurt. I can't do it now again.
But they have children.
They take a job.
They settle in to raising a family,
providing.
And they get settled where they are.
And then they get to be 40 years old,
50 even,
and they're settled in their career.
And I'm sure the calling of God
is still on them.
But they can't find a way back.
They don't feel like, for whatever reason,
they can stop everything,
start all over again.
Will the same thing happen to us
that happened before?
I couldn't take it again.
And maybe they don't feel like
they could plant a church.
So they never pastor again.
And it's really sad to me
because the burnout got them.
James: And there's not enough good men
out there as it is.
Mack: I mean, I would say
to any brother like that
who's got a pastor's heart
and was in ministry,
and he's not anymore,
and he's trying to be faithful,
but the nagging is there,
and he knows the gifts and callings of God
are without repentance.
If I was ever called to preach the Gospel,
and I haven't disqualified myself
through sin,
am I not still called?
Lord, I'm willing.
Show me what You want.
James: What have been your greatest encouragements as a pastor?
Mack: For me, I think,
as pastors and preachers,
we're first Christians.
And we need fellowship.
And it's easy for preachers
to be in the preaching mode
and not maintain real fellowship
just as Christians.
And so maintaining real fellowship,
being with brothers,
sitting under preaching that feeds me,
doing the things that I need to do
as a Christian
to stay encouraged and grow,
never mind being a preacher.
Those are the things that have encouraged me the most -
to be with the brethren,
and be stirred up.
And I think even more specifically,
to pray with brothers.
There's something about praying
with another brother in your church
or a fellow pastor
or a brother in the Lord that likes to pray.
Praying with them
always is a real encouragement to me.
So those things are basic things,
but the things God uses
to bring encouragement into our lives
are the basic things:
His Word, true fellowship,
and keeping myself under edifying preaching
that feeds my heart.
You know, at this point in my life,
I'm not interested in intellectual,
high theology preaching
that just feeds my mind
or just gives me information.
I want something that will stir my heart,
that will stir my love for Christ,
that preaches to my conscience,
my affections,
and really brings me in touch with God.
And automatically, encouragement comes.
Along that line of encouragements,
one of the biggest means
of encouragement in my life,
to stir me, to refresh me,
to encourage me,
to inspire me,
really has probably just been
the regular reading of Christian biography
and the lives of the saints in the past.
Because you see how God worked
in their lives when they were sinful,
when they were needy;
how He shaped their lives,
and equipped them;
how He kept them and provided for them;
how He used them.
And reading the lives of saints from the past
is just a huge inspiration.
Martyn Lloyd-Jones says
reading Christian biography
was the biggest tonic for his soul.
He'd be refreshed so much.
And that's been the case with me too.
Only when you do it and experience it
does the reality and the fragrance
of another Christian's walk
in what they experience
becomes communicated to you.
It becomes incarnational.
And you see, man, his life
is such an inspiration to me.
And you go away longing to be that way.
And you go away with new lessons
of: I could do that that he did.
I hadn't thought about that, you know.
And you're adding to your faith
and you're growing.
So it really is true.