- All right guys, well I'm so excited about this episode
because I have the one and only Ken Coleman here.
Ken, thanks for being here.
- So nice to be on set.
This is lovely.
The couch, everything is so lovely.
- You love the couch, don't you?
It took us about 10 minutes - I love the couch.
- to get Ken situated
just so you all know.
- Yeah, I love the couch.
ADHD struggles on the couch. Too many options.
Ken, please stay still for the entire shoot,
but this is great, that's what we're gonna try to do.
- So Ken has a nationally syndicated show all about career.
It's called "The Ken Coleman Show." And yeah,
you are America's career coach.
- Wow, yeah, somebody gave me that title,
but yeah, we're helping folks figure out
what they were created to do
by identifying what they do best
so they can do work they love
and create results that matter to them.
- I love it.
Well, we are shifting from career to you, Ken, personally.
- Uh oh.
- So this is what I love about my new book,
"Know Yourself, Know Your Money"
is that it's so personal.
It's your money tendencies,
it's how you grew up, your dreams, your fears.
Chris Hogan was on
and we went through all of his money tendencies,
gave him a little quiz, and it was fantastic.
- Did he pass the quiz?
- He passed. He passed.
- Okay, I'm very nervous right now.
- We gave him an A.
- Okay.
- Okay, so I wanted to bring you on
to talk about the money classrooms.
And so in the book I talk about,
and not just in the book, but we all know in life,
how much your past affects who you are today,
the good and the bad, we all experience that.
And so the money classrooms really talks about
how money is communicated,
it's communicated verbally and emotionally.
So, again, just as a recap,
there's the anxious money classroom
where it's verbally closed, emotionally stressed.
The unstable money classroom,
emotionally very stressed, but verbally open.
So lots of fighting you hear.
There's the unaware money classroom,
which is emotionally calm, but verbally closed.
And then the secure money classroom,
and that is verbally open and emotionally calm.
So out of the four, boom, boom, boom,
I just gave you some options.
How did you grow up, would you say?
- Certainly the unaware.
- Unaware?
Classroom, number tres.
- Yeah, no question, classroom three.
Mom and dad didn't have much money.
My dad, you know,
we're talking lower middle-class small church pastor.
So, we're not talking about a lot of money.
Ministry, ministry, ministry.
But interestingly enough,
we just didn't know that, my brother and I.
We didn't know,
I have a younger brother,
three and a half years younger than me.
Now we didn't have a lot of the things
that other people did.
We heard about friends going to Disney
and I was like, what is that?
I mean we went to battlefields and things of that nature.
So, you know, we were on a budget,
so we knew there was obviously
some difference between our life,
but we didn't know how tight it was
just because of a lack of income.
Then my mom went to work when I was 12.
And so there was no question
that when I read the classrooms,
we were certainly number three.
Didn't talk about it though.
There wasn't a lot of, hey, we're struggling,
hey, things are really, really tight.
We knew that dad was very frugal
before we knew what the word frugal meant.
But yeah not a lot of talking about our financial situation.
- Yeah and I think it's hard,
especially if it is,
if the budgets are more on like the tighter side,
if you will, because of income,
because parents, they want to share, but don't scare.
And so it's a hard balance, that's a hard balance.
So to say to a 4-year-old,
we're struggling on the money side.
You don't want to do that.
That creates anxiety in a child.
But how to healthily go about saying,
hey, we're gonna actually talk about the subject though,
not make it taboo, but do it without freaking the kids out.
- Yeah, it's interesting too.
There's another side to this.
I'm curious if you see this in your research
and in the book.
As I was reading through classroom number three
and thinking about my upbringing,
and I'm gonna talk to my parents about this
next time they're in town,
but I also wonder if it's not just
I want to protect the kids and not scare them.
I think there's a little bit of pride there.
I don't think any parent really wants to tell their kids,
hey, you know what,
we don't have a lot of margin right now.
We don't have enough money
to be able to do this thing, this thing, and this thing.
And so I just wonder if that's not part of it as well.
What are your thoughts on that?
- No, I think so for sure.
And I think that there's elements where
one spouse will take full control over what's going on
so that the other one is unaware,
and that other spouse, that feels safe to them.
Where they're like, I don't want to know what's going on.
And when I talk to couples, that happens too.
Where they're like,
oh yeah, my wife just takes care of the budget,
I don't want to deal with it
because if you knew the truth of it,
it might stress you out.
- Ignorance is bliss, it's been said,
and there's something to that.
Yeah that's really interesting.
So I think,
I wonder if there's a combination of that
certainly when you're older.
I mean when my brother and I were teens,
if we didn't have the money to do something
or we wanted a pair of basketball shoes,
dad was pretty clear, can't do that,
but there wasn't a lot of discussion.
And I just wonder if there's not a sense of,
because I'll be honest, I felt that some.
I mean we live in a wealthy community,
it's just simple.
And we see other kids get certain things
and it's not in our budget.
The way we live here at Ramsey Solutions,
like if it's not there,
I'm not going to just blow everything up to do it.
And I felt that tinge at times,
you know, I wish I could do that,
I wish we could take this trip.
So I'm just being real.
I think that's got to be a part of it.
- Oh, I think there's an element for sure.
And what's interesting too
people I've talked to in classroom number three,
a few people, they start having resentment
as an adult to their parents
because they feel like they've been lied to
and they're like, no, I thought everything was fine.
Like I thought we were all good,
I thought they were fine.
And now as an adult, I'm realizing,
wow, no, my parents
charged everything on credit cards for Christmas,
like they didn't have the money.
Oh wow, my parents, the vacations we took,
they didn't have the money to do that
and now they can't even retire,
and I feel like I was lied to.
And yours may not be that extreme, by any means,
but there's an element of that, which is interesting.
Even just, when you just are verbal and just talk,
have that verbal communication
and it's just open and honest,
it takes away any of like,
the questions, I guess, that we have.
And if we have questions,
we're naturally, through our lives,
gonna just create our own answers
and tell ourselves our own story.
And when it's not true,
it kind of throws you off a little bit.
- That's right.
And I find that kids are tremendously flexible.
They adapt so well.
And I think they adapt better than we realize,
and I'm in the middle of this right now.
You've got three. I've got three.
I've got two in middle school, one in high school.
And I'm learning that there are things I do at times
to protect or to shield.
And then I realized, I don't need to do that.
If I talk to them like young adults,
they're on their way,
certainly my 15-year-old is,
and you let them see the facts and explain it,
they may not like it, but they can process it.
And I don't think we give our kids credit enough
to be able to adapt to reality.
- Oh yeah.
They're much smarter than we give them credit for.
I can say that just with a 5-year-old.
But no, so you, all of what you just said though,
I feel like are you trying to raise your family
in that classroom four
where it's open communication and low stress
because it's under control? - For sure.
Yeah, open communication, but not too much,
you know, because I'll tell you, all three of our kids,
"How much money do you make?"
"I'm not telling you."
"Why aren't you gonna tell me?"
"Because you'll tell everybody you know."
And so understanding that that is a private thing,
there's multiple reasons,
we talk them through that.
So we're open to,
"Hey, we're not gonna be able to do this.
This year, we're not gonna do this
because we're saving up to do this."
And we've had that through our journey.
And we've also said,
"Hey, you need to understand something.
I'm not going to,"
I've told my 15-year-old,
"Look, I'll match whatever money you save for your car.
I will take care of your insurance.
You're gonna pay for your gas.
And you will also pay for 50% of your repairs to your car."
- Oh dang.
Good for you.
No, don't defend.
- I'm not, but here's the deal.
They've got to begin to realize that life happens.
- Oh yeah.
- And when life happens, money disappears.
And so it can't be, all right, you get a job,
and you pay for some of the car,
and then I'm gonna bank roll the rest of it.
No, if your car breaks down,
we're gonna look in your bank account,
and we're gonna see what you got.
Give me 50%, pal, I'll do the other 50%.
By the way, you're out of gas, you don't have any money?
I'm gonna come pick you up,
but the car stays parked
until you have enough money to pay for gas.
Because at some point they've got to appreciate-
- Oh yeah.
- pain, money and how all that tension that exists.
Because even those of us that have emergency funds,
I got to tell you, I just put money in my wife's Suburban,
and we had it, and it was there,
and it didn't even phase us financially,
but it really bothered me.
- Oh it's terrible.
I hate car repairs.
- I'm so irritated about having to take money out
that I saved.
But they've got to experience that pain.
So we are open to an extent of,
hey, this is reality,
and this is what you're gonna have to do,
and if you don't have the money.
You know, one of the kids got mad,
broke their PlayStation thing.
Guess what I said?
You're gonna pay for it.
- Yep, yep, oh we get it.
- Here's the one, ordered a video game without permission.
I get the email.
"PlayStation says we just ordered a new game.
Did you ask me for permission?"
"No."
"Great, pony up.
- At least your kids it's on purpose.
We'll randomly get an Apple email,
this happens all the time,
and it was like, "You just bought '1917' the movie."
It's like some war movie.
And I'm just like who ordered this?
And we had no clue.
Oh yeah, they'll just click, oh it's terrible.
I'm like no, no. - We have a mutual friend,
Bill, I don't even know if you've heard this story,
we have a mutual friend.
His kid is playing one of those,
I think it's Fortnite, and they tell you,
you can get this armor, skin, weapon or whatever
and they just kinda throw it out there
and the kids like, "Oh, sure, I'll buy that."
Racked up $700.
- No, no.
- No clue.
Bill gets an email, he's like, about had a stroke.
So we've got to be careful on this stuff,
you know what I mean?
Because the kid didn't know.
The kids like, "Sure, I'll buy it."
Ching, ching, ching, ching.
So anyway. - It's crazy, it is.
- He's gonna have to pay that back.
So I think they've got,
so we make them pay for things that they broke,
that they do,
so that they begin to feel the sting of decisions
and what will cost you,
not just in restrictions or other repercussions,
but financial repercussions.
I think that's where we're doing, I think, a good job
so they begin to appreciate money.
- No, they do.
Well and there's a level of emotion
that they have attached to their own money, right?
And it's like when they feel that car repair,
when they feel that PlayStation they may have to pay back
or buy a new controller or whatever,
like they feel it so much.
And having that emotion early on in life
versus the first time they're feeling that at 23,
you're setting them up so well, so well.
Okay question, as a parent with the older kids,
trying to grow up in that classroom number four,
I've realized that when you have open communication
about money,
you'll usually take those same habits of communication
into other areas of your life,
right, into your marriage,
when it's not just about money,
but it's about other things.
And so for you with kids,
do you feel like because you're open about money
and open to have these conversations
that you're more open to communication
about other things in life as a parent?
- No question, because you know,
it's a situation where I learned early on
that the kids are more aware of things than I realized.
You know what I mean?
And so it's,
I have a little bit of a neurotic fear
about my kids feeling like I'm withholding information.
I'm not gonna call it lying
because I would never willfully lie, not even a white lie,
but I think as parents sometimes
we get close to that line of a white lie
where we say well, I'm withholding information.
And early on, I mean really early on,
the kids would ask me some questions
and I would just go, boom, here's the answer.
And then Stacy would be like, "What are you doing?"
I went, "They asked me."
And I think that the approach here is
is that I want them to feel like when they ask me a question
that I'm gonna always shoot 'em straight.
And a lot of times, saying "I don't know"
is the way to do it.
And I think that there've been times where I'll say to them,
"You can't do this," or "I'm not okay with this,"
and they'll say "Why?" And I go,
"I don't even have a really great reason,
but I don't feel good about it."
And one of these days you're gonna make these decisions.
And I think what it creates in our home
is a bit of back and forth,
where it's not just, "I said so," no conversation.
- Because that was my upbringing.
Like love you Dave and Sharon
but the whole like no is a complete sentence,
like that was told to me all the time.
But now as a parent, I'm like, ah,
my generation, whatever, all the feelings
that I have in life now,
I'm like, no, I want to be able
to communicate the why behind that.
- It's true.
See no is not a complete sentence.
Let's destroy that.
Are you ready?
I'm gonna take this on.
Let me tell you why.
- Dave Ramsey.
- Well Ken Coleman senior too.
So we'll lump in my dad as well.
- We love our parents.
- We love 'em. We love 'em.
Here's why I don't think no is a complete sentence.
It's a complete sentence to you,
but the very idea of...
Can I look at these people and really talk to them?
The very idea of, parents, of communication means
the ball is hit across the net and the kid hits it back.
Communication is a two-way street.
And so, in your mind, no because I said so,
you think, well, that's final,
I have been consistent and shown authority.
Here's what's happening.
You've shut your kid down,
and your kid walks away, and you think the narrative's over,
and it's not over in their head.
And you're creating more issues and more questions
as opposed to having real communication.
So the way I approach it is this,
"No, here's why."
And even if I don't have a great why, I go,
"It's a feeling.
You're just gonna have to trust me.
I don't feel good about it.
I don't have a bunch of reasons.
This could happen, this could happen,
but I just don't think it's a good decision."
And they don't like it,
and they'll ask and keep going back and forth.
My no remains a no.
- Yes, yep.
- But I'm allowing them to weigh in on it.
And I joked about this at one of our events recently.
On social media,
I've just said no social media for the kids
until they're out of high school, and they hate it,
and they're pushing back big time.
And they'll say things like, "This is really dumb."
Well, the first couple of times they did it,
I got mad because you've disrespected me, and I punished.
Now, they keep pushing.
I keep saying no.
And when they go, "This is dumb,"
I go, "I know."
And I'm engaging,
I heard you. I hear your feelings. It's still a no.
And so I would just,
a play on that, no is not a complete sentence,
it's no, here's why,
it's still gonna be no,
I know you don't like it, sorry.
How do you feel about it?
Okay, it's still a no.
- That's right, let your no be no, your yes be yes.
No, Chip Todd, one time, said,
"Your kids need to think,"
okay, I'm gonna butcher the quote,
he said, "Your kids need to think that they can kill you,
but you will not be killed."
- That is way better than what I just said.
- [Rachel] Isn't that great though?
- That's incredible. - And I was like oh
because there's gonna be times,
I mean even at toddler fits
up into when they're 15 or something, it's like,
no they have to believe they can, but you will,
but they know you will not be killed.
- And let me confess something.
I struggled with that for a long time and still do,
because I want my kids to like me.
But the problem is, they're not gonna like me.
- Not all the time.
- Most of the time, probably, if you're parenting.
There's a lot of not like,
but I know they love me,
I know there's respect there even when they don't show it.
So you got to get over that, parents.
- But I think it is.
It's all that classroom four.
It's that open side of communication
where a lot of parents don't engage sometimes.
And sometimes you don't have the emotional capacity,
sometimes you don't have the time, all of it,
but pushing it and having that dialogue
because when you have dialogue in other areas of your life,
money will just go right into play in the ebb and flow.
Ken, thanks for being here.
I love hearing all about how you grew up
and kids today, and all of it.
- Thank you for having me.
You're doing great work.
This is such a great show.
- Thanks, Ken.
Okay, where can everyone find you?
- Kencoleman.com.
We have a lot of free resources,
a lot of great paid resources.
And of course "The Ken Coleman Show"
anywhere you want to watch it, YouTube,
podcasts, Sirius XM, and your local talk radio show.
- It's all there.
Yep, all career stuff, you guys, go to him, Ken Coleman.
Thanks again, Ken.
- Thanks for having me.
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