So anyway, in conclusion, the best thing Kevin Feige did was making Cowboys and Aliens starring
Jon Favreau. I'm here with Tom and Nina to ask the question, what are the best and worst decisions
Kevin Feige has made with the MCU. Nina, why don't you start us off?
Thanks, Brian. So worst is tough because as you said, most of these movies are pretty good.
They've performed really spectacularly well at the box office. They're critically ... For the
most part, I mean, Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame did very well with critics. Many of the
smaller ones have as well. So I think worst is, is tough. And it's very relative when it comes
to Kevin Feige running the MCU, because he's done a really good job as somebody-
It's hard to find the bad stuff amongst so much good.
But something that concerns me. And I'll admit that when I was doing research for this,
I stumbled across a piece written by Emily VanDerWerff, who is,
I believe the critic at large at Fox. And she made a good point,
where she was like, "The MCU is the most television-esque thing in film
right now," in that sure, you can watch the movies by themselves, but they're really episodic.
And if you watch Captain America: Winter Soldier without having seen the first Captain America,
you don't really understand why he is really anxious about government oversight. You don't
really get like the smaller kind of character beats if you don't watch the entire thing.
And I think that, that level of interconnectedness can get really tricky because then you start,
especially with so many movies, I think that a casual viewer might start to feel alienated
by the entire thing. And I think that, that concerns me going forward. I mean, an example is
during quarantine, I live near my parents, we watched a lot of movies together. I couldn't
have shown them Infinity War Endgame. They would have been like, "Who were any of these people?"
Because they don't watch Marvel movies. But I can show them Black Panther because it is
a complete standalone. And you can understand that movie really, really well without ... Even
though Klaue is in other movies, you don't need to know who he is beforehand.
You don't really need to know who he is during either.
No. And even if you haven't seen Captain America: Civil war and the introduction of T'Challah,
you don't really need that either. You just know when this movie opens that his
father has passed away. So I think the interconnectedness is a great strength,
but it could be a weakness, in that I think it could alienate
more casual viewers who don't want to watch 20-plus movies to understand what's going on.
I agree with you in theory, I think that obviously it's daunting, right?
Right.
If I really, really like Captain America: Winter Soldier, and I want to say to someone,
"Hey, let's watch Winter Soldier," and be like, "Well, do I need to
see any other movies to understand it?" And I'll be like, "Yes." But at the same time,
I guess that weakness is also the whole franchise's strength because it's driven-
Totally.
... everybody to see every one of these movies because they watch.
That's true. But as you know, phase four continues, and there's so much more,
and there's TV shows. I mean, I don't know-
So much.
... what casual viewer could have wandered into Falcon and the Winter Soldier having seen every
other movie. Even as someone who's seen all the Marvel movies, I still sometimes was like,
"Wait, who, what?" I mean, even I got a little bogged down. And then quickly, I think the best
thing, and I think we talked about this our chat at some point. And it was something that
I brought up. I think something he's done that's really smart is bringing in smaller
directors who ... He brings in a lot of television directors. So the Russos worked on shows like
Happy Endings and Arrested Development. And then he was like, "Do you want to
helm some of the biggest installments in this entire thing?" And they crushed it.
I mean, the Russos did a great job with Civil War and Infinity War and Endgame. So I think
that way before Chloe Zhao was out there winning Academy awards, he tapped her to direct Eternals.
So I think he has a really good sense of who should helm which story and whose sensibility
is right. And I think he has done a good job in picking people who are less well-known,
but perfect for the job, instead of just being like, "Hey, Steven Spielberg," or whatever,
"do you want to do at MCU movie." Not that, that would be bad, but it's just nice to see
him giving a chance to people who you don't know as well and making them household names.
If I could pick up the baton and run with it before we throw to Tom, that is also
very similar to my best and worst decision. So for me, one of the worst decisions he's made,
and I guess I'm speculating here about what actually was his decision, but as the boss,
I;m going to assume that most of the felt to him, was when Edgar Wright left Ant-Man.
Edgar Wright is an amazing director. Every film has done is very good, to
extremely good. Even if one of the movies that he did is not your favorite or has some
issues here and there, overall it's still better than most other movies.
He also has carved out such a distinctive style in the vein of Wes Anderson, where it's like, if
you see five minutes of an Edgar Wright movie, you know that it's an Edgar Wright movie immediately.
While I really liked Ant-Man and Ant-Man Two, I really like Peyton Reed's work,
the director of those movies, I think he's cool, I think he's great, I still really
would have loved to have seen Edgar Wright. And I think that would have been amazing.
Was that a creative differences problem? Is that what happened?
Yeah, something like that. It's basically just kind of ... It's never really been made clear
what happened and why it happened that way. But yeah, creative differences is generally what's-
So you're saying that letting Edgar Wright slip through his fingers was Kevin Feige's
biggest mistake?
I feel like doing things to keep him happy
would have ultimately made for a really memorable and exciting movie, right?
Yeah.
Like James Gunn, Guardians of the Galaxy. That's a James Gunn movie. And then the next one I was
going to say, that one of the best decisions he made was after that he got Taika Waititi
to revitalize Thor and get Thor: Ragnarok on the track that it was on. And that's one now, it
went from a franchise I didn't really care about, the Thor franchise, to of my absolute, not only
just favorite MCU movies, but Thor: Ragnarok is one of my favorite movies in recent memory, where-
And by getting Taika on board, he got Natalie Portman back into the MCU. I don't think she
would have signed on had she'd not seen a totally different vision for this character and the story.
Yeah. There's new and interesting things happening. So many of these MCU movies,
as much as I enjoy them for what they are, like the bare bones, like, hey,
they're super heroes fighting, I like them when they're interesting and different and weird.
And the way that you brought up the Guardians is a James Gunn movie, Thor:
Ragnarok is a Taika Waititi movie. I mean, if you're familiar with
Jojo Rabbit, or What We Do In the Shadows, it has that same, very dry sensibility.
He's got a great sense of humor. So they let him just play around and figure out a new direction.
So yeah, that's my best and worst, where the worst was early on Edgar Wright getting away, when that
could have been the start of really cool stuff. But best, learning from that mistake and then
starting to right the ship with people like James Gunn and Taika Waititi. So those are my picks.
Tom, what about you? What are your best and worst decisions that Kevin Feige has made with the MCU?
Totally agree. I think it's kind of remarkable, especially with something as big as
the MCU became, this guy overall, and I wasn't there, I don't know,
but from what I understand really trusted the creative people that he was hiring. He
knew that these people were good at something for a reason. And so, even going back to Iron Man,
you read about John Favreau going up to bat to bring Robert Downey Jr. on board, when the studio
maybe wanted somebody a little bit less could be found in the ditch at any moment. You know?
Right. Right.
from public perception.
I found that screenshot from a very popular entertainment site from 2009 that said,
"Marvel takes a chance on two no names for Thor." And it was Tom Hiddleston and Chris Hemsworth.
And now they're like, oh, okay. Just two of the biggest movie stars on the planet, fine.
That's another thing. He found these pretty great directors, people who fit with what he was trying
to make, especially back at the beginning. I mean, I know that the first Thor movie is nobody's
favorite anything, but getting a Shakespearian director to try and handle these over-the-top-
It's a good point, yeah.
...and then going onto Captain America, first Captain America,
which was directed by Chris Columbus.
No.
No. It was who did The Rocketeer. Right?
It was the guy who did The Rocketeer. I want to say his name starts with Joe. Excuse my-
Joe. I'm going to type-
It wasn't Joe ... on my lap
It's Joe Johnston.
That's it, Joe Johnston. I didn't have to type on my keyboard, which -
I have a very quiet keyboard. I got it.
Good job. Thank you.
Well, then I'm going to go to you for facts, Nina.
Tom, it's really interesting that you bring up John Favreau too, because has there been
anyone more prolific in terms of directing and creating stuff that we all like than John Favreau?
He kicked off the MCU with Iron Man. He did The Mandalorian. He's-
He made Zathura.
Well, sure.
Is that-
not all-
Is that a point in his favor? I never saw.
I haven't seen it either.
I just assumed that we were all on team Zathura. I guess-
I can be.
... it doesn't matter.
I'm very flexible about a movie I haven't seen.
A better question is are you team cowboys, or team aliens?
Ooh.
Because he also directed Cowboys and Aliens.
How can you ask me to choose-
Sure did.
... between my children in such a way? I love them both in different ways.
I actually heard that movie's-
coming to life.
I heard that movie's really good, but I still haven't gotten around-
I heard it's a really fun action movie. Not everything needs to be an
Oscar-winner. It can just be fun and kind of dumb.
I'd watch it tomorrow if I knew any way to watch it without paying money for it.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's really brave of you to say, Brian.
I know. I'm taking a stand here and now. Cowboys and Aliens,
I want to watch you, but I don't want to pay for you.
Just not for money.
Well, not for more money than-
I want to watch you- I've already paid.
Yeah. You want to watch the movie, but not that badly.
I don't want to pay $3. Actually. I would pay $3.
You wouldn't buy it for $15, but I think you'd rent it for three.
I'm really enjoying the emotional journey that you're going on.
I'm just trying to find my floor and ceiling for my desire to watch
Cowboys and Aliens starring Daniel Craig and Harrison Ford, I presume-
episode of Shrek that-
... as a cowboy and as an alien.
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that's who starred in that movie. Now I have to watch it.
Now you have to watch it, right?
I have to.
I can't resist.
Which one is a cowboy and which one is an alien?
If Harrison Ford is not a cowboy, I'm not watching the movie.
What if he's a cowboy alien? What if they've come together at the end? And they're like,
"Actually, the aliens were cowboys the whole time."
Actually, the Cowboys and aliens were the friends we made along the way.
That's right, the friends we made along the way.
Pitching the plot of a movie that came out 10 years ago, pretty hard right now.
And then at the end, they're like, "This is so money." And then it cuts to black.
Sp money, you don't even know.
Jon Favreau, a film by Jon Favreau. And then the end-
Jon Favreau's joint.
Then the end is just ... It's just outtakes from him on Friends.
Oh, God.
Outstanding. Outstanding
I'd pay $4 to rent this movie.
Well, I'm glad we made up the plot to a movie none of us have seen.
Yeah. I don't know what we did here today, but I'm glad we did it.
Anyway, in conclusion, the best thing Kevin Feige
did was making Cowboys and Aliens, starting Jon Favreau.
The centerpiece, the crown jewel of the MCU.
Yeah. I love that.
the line from Swingers and the outtakes from Friends.
Yeah. It's a movie we all want to watch.
Marvel paid a billion dollars.
If Marvel put out Cowboys and Aliens it would make a billion dollars.
Yeah, it probably would.
It is based on a comic book. The story behind that, I don't know all the details,
but I'm pretty sure that the person who made that
comic book specifically did it so that he could get a movie option.
I mean, also I think Marvel could put out an Andy Warhol style video of Robert Downey Jr.
Sleeping for eight hours and it would make a billion dollars. I'd probably go watch it.
It would be-
The trailer would be great anyway.
Yeah. I'd watch it.
What does that guy get up to when he's asleep, what does he do?
Probably not much, but I got to know.
Thanks for joining us. Please hit like and subscribe, so you don't miss a single new episode.