AND NOW AN ADVISER TO JOE BIDEN,
RON KLAIN, AND "NEW YORK TIMES"
WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT PETER
BAKER.
PETER BAKER, I DON’T KNOW WHY I
WAS SHOCKED BUT I WAS TO SEE
TRUMP GO AFTER FAUCI, AND IT IS
A SIMILAR PATTERN.
FOX NEWS PRIMETIME ANCHORS WARM
UP THE WATER FOR HIM AND HE
DIVES RIGHT IN.
ANY FALLOUT TODAY ON THAT ATTACK
AGAINST FAUCI’S TESTIMONY BEFORE
CONGRESS YESTERDAY?
>> WELL LOOK, I THINK YOU’RE
RIGHT, DR. FAUCI HAS CREDIBILITY
WITH THE PUBLIC THAT THE
PRESIDENT DOESN’T.
ALL THE POLLS SHOW THAT MANY,
MANY MORE AMERICANS TRUST WHAT
DR. FAUCI IS TELLING THEM THAN
TRUST WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS
TELLING THEM.
I THINK THAT FOR ONE THING IT
IRRITATES THE PRESIDENT AND FOR
ANOTHER THING DR. FAUCI IS THE
ONE SORT OF STANDING IN THE WAY
OF THE APPROACH THAT THE
PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE TO TAKE
WHICH IS A SPEEDY AND WHOLESALE
RE-OPENING OF THE COUNTRY AS
FAST AS POSSIBLE.
NOW, THE PRESIDENT HAS TO MAKE
DECISIONS BASED ON NOT JUST WHAT
ONE SET OF ADVISERS TELL HIM,
WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP’S AIDES
WOULD TELL YOU HE HAS TO LOOK AT
THE BIG PICTURE, THE WHOLE
PICTURE, THE ECONOMY AND THE
IMPACT ON JOBS, UNEMPLOYED, ON
POVERTY AND BUSINESSES.
THE PRESIDENT HAS TO TAKE ALL
THESE THINGS INTO ACCOUNT WHICH
IS PROBABLY TRUE OF ANY
PRESIDENT BUT DR. FAUCI AT THIS
POINT HAS CREDIBILITY THAT
NOBODY ELSE HAS AND IF PEOPLE
OUT THERE DON’T BELIEVE THAT THE
VIRUS IS UNDER CONTROL, THE
ECONOMY WILL HAVE A HARD TIME
RE-OPENING TO BEGIN WITH.
PEOPLE WON’T WANT TO GO TO WORK,
GO TO SCHOOL, GO SHOPPING, GO TO
RESTAURANTS.
SO IT’S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT, I
THINK, FOR ANY PRESIDENT IN THIS
SITUATION TO EARN THE TRUST OF
THE PEOPLE SO THEY CAN FEEL
CONFIDENT THE DECISIONS HE’S
MAKING HERE BASED ON THEIR BEST
INTERESTS.
>> RON KLAIN, I’M GUESSING
YOU’RE NOT -- YOU’RE SKEPTICAL
THAT HE’S MAKING DECISIONS BASED
ON PEOPLE’S BEST INTEREST, BUT
PETER BAKER IS RIGHT.
PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO GO BACK
IF THEY THINK THERE’S DANGER TO
THEIR LIVES OR THEIR FAMILY’S
LIVES TO DO SO.
THAT’S NOT A GOOD ECONOMIC PLAN
OR A PRUDENT FAMILY WELLNESS
PLAN.
WHERE DO YOU THINK THINGS ARE
RIGHT NOW WITH THIS TESTIMONY
TODAY FROM DR. BRIGHT WHO MY
COLLEAGUE, GARRETT HAAKE,
DESCRIBED PERFECTLY.
HE’S A GOVERNMENT TECHNO KRAT.
I W0RKDORKED IN GOVERNMENT.
YOU WORKED IN GOVERNMENT.
HE’S SOMEONE, TO THE DEGREE THAT
HE’S PARTISAN, HE’S A SCIENTIST.
HIS PARTY IS THE DATA.
HIS LOYALTY TO THE EVIDENCE AND
HIS FRUSTRATION IS THAT WE
DIDN’T USE THE EVIDENCE OR THE
DATA TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ABOUT
THE COMING PANDEMIC.
>> THE ECONOMY IS CLOSED TODAY
NOT BECAUSE OF TONY FAUCI BUT
BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP’S
INCOMPETENCE AND LAZINESS.
TONY FAUCI STOOD UP OVER A MONTH
AGO IN THE WHITE HOUSE BRIEFING
ROOM AND SAID HERE’S THE ROAD
MAP TO RE-OPENING THE ECONOMY.
THAT WAS GET THE NUMBER OF CASES
DOWN, GET THE TESTING IN PLACE,
GET PEOPLE WEARING MASKS.
TRUMP’S DONE NONE OF THOSE
THINGS.
IF WE’RE NOT RE-OPENING, IT’S
NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING TONY
FAUCI SAID.
IT’S BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP’S
FAILURE TO ACT ON THAT ADVICE,
INSTEAD TO BELIEVE HE CAN DENY
AND TWEET AWAY THIS PROBLEM.
THIS IS ON HIM.
RICK BRIGHT, I WORKED WITH RICK
BRIGHT ON THE EBOLA RESPONSE.
HE’S A CONSUMMATE PROFESSIONAL,
AND I THINK THAT WHAT YOU’RE
SEEING HERE, HIS TESTIMONY, IS
JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW
WARNINGS WERE MADE AND WARNINGS
WERE IGNORED.
WE’RE IN THIS MESS BECAUSE THE
WARNINGS WERE GIVEN AND THE
ACTIONS WEREN’T TAKEN.
THAT’S BACKWARDS LOOKING,
NICOLLE.
THE PROBLEM IS RIGHT NOW THEY’RE
STILL NOT BEING FIXED AND THESE
PROBLEMS CONTINUE AND THAT’S WHY
WE’RE IN THIS LOGGER HEADS
BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND DR.
FAUCI.
>> DR. WEN, YOU HAVE WRITTEN
RECENTLY IN AN OP-ED THAT YOU
THINK WE’RE IN A DIFFERENT PHASE
OF THIS AS A PUBLIC, THAT WE’VE
MISSED A LOT OF THE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR CONTAINMENT.
TALK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE AS A
COUNTRY.
>> BACK TO WHAT RON WAS JUST
SAYING, WE ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IT
TAKES IN ORDER TO RE-OPEN
SAFELY.
THE WHITE HOUSE OUTLINED THEIR
OWN CRITERIA AND GUIDELINES FOR
DOING SO.
IF WE KNOW WHAT IT TAKES AND
WE’RE KNOWINGLY IGNORING THESE
GUIDELINES, THEN WE’RE IN
ESSENCE SAYING THAT WE’RE GIVING
UP ON CONTAINMENT, THAT WE HAD A
CHANCE TO CONTAIN THIS VIRUS AND
SAVE LIVES BUT WE’RE NOT GOING
TO DO IT.
I FIND IT HARD THE SAY BECAUSE I
CAN’T QUITE BELIEVE THAT OUR
GOVERNMENT IS DOING THIS, BUT IF
WE ARE, THEN AT LEAST BE HONEST
ABOUT IT.
AT LEAST ADMIT THAT WE ARE
GIVING UP ON THE STRATEGY THAT
WE ALL THOUGHT WAS THE CASE,
THAT WE’RE GOING TO CONTAIN THE
INFECTION, WE’RE GOING TO TEST
AND TRACE AND ISOLATE OUR WAY
OUT OF THIS.
IF THAT’S NO LONGER THE PLAN,
LET’S BE HONEST ABOUT IT AND
LET’S MOVE ON TO WHAT WE KNOW IN
PUBLIC HEALTH TO BE HARM
REDUCTION.
IF THERE’S A BEHAVIOR THAT’S
RISKY AND WE DECIDED TO DO IT
ANYWAY, THE BEST THAT WE CAN DO
IS REDUCE THE HARM BECAUSE
THAT’S OUR LAST AND BEST CHANCE
TO REDUCE THE LEVEL OF
INFECTIONS AND SAVE LIVES.
I CAN’T BELIEVE WE’RE HERE BUT
SINCE WE ARE, LET’S TAKE THOSE
NECESSARY STEPS AND FIGURE OUT
WHAT ARE THE THINGS WE CAN DO TO
REDUCE RISK TO EMPLOYEES, TO
STUDENTS, TO EVERYONE SO THAT WE
CAN AT LEAST TRY TO PROTECT
THOSE AROUND US.
>> DR. WEN, YOU HAVE TO TELL US
WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE BECAUSE
YOU LOOK AT THESE PICTURES OF
PEOPLE FLOODING INTO THE BARS IN
WISCONSIN AFTER THAT STATE
SUPREME COURT OVERRULED OR
OUTLAWED THE STAY-AT-HOME
ORDERS.
WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS?
HE DESCRIBED HIS STATE AS THE
WILD, WILD WEST.
WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT REDUCE
HARM?
>> I WORRY WHEN I SEE THESE
PICTURES.
ACTUALLY, I SEE IN THESE
PICTURES POTENTIAL PATIENTS WHO
MIGHT COME INTO MY ER AND THEIR
FAMILY MEMBERS WHO THEY’RE GOING
TO BE INFECTING.
THIS IS ACTUALLY WHY WE RELY ON
THE CDC FOR THESE GUIDELINES,
THESE GUIDELINES THAT ARE NOT
YET BEING ISSUED.
WE RELY ON THESE GUIDELINES TO
SAY, LOOK, WE DON’T THINK THIS
IS A GOOD IDEA FOR RESTAURANTS
AND BARS TO BE OPEN, BUT IF
THEY’RE GOING TO BE OPEN, ARE
THERE SOME THINGS THAT WE CAN
DO, ARE THERE THINGS LIKE
CHECKING THE VENTILATION SYSTEM.
ARE THERE NEW STANDARDS FOR
EXAMPLE FOR PUTTING UP
PLEXIGLASS SHIELDS, FOR EVERYONE
TO WEAR MASKS AS MUCH AS
POSSIBLE, SPACING THINGS OUT SIX
FEET APART, START WITH OPENING
OUTDOORS SPACES AND THEN INDOOR
SPACES.
IF DAY CAMPS AND SCHOOLS ARE
GOING TO BE OPEN, EVEN IF IT’S
NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO, HOW
CAN WE KEEP IT AS SAFE AS WE
CAN.
>> RON KLAIN, THERE’S A LITTLE
WAR OF WORDS GOING ON ABOUT WHAT
THE MEANING OF A PLAYBOOK IS,
AND YOU TWEETED THIS.
I’VE HAD PEOPLE TWEETING ME IN
THE LAST 24 HOURS.
DID THE PANDEMIC PLAYBOOK REALLY
EXIST?
WAS IT REALLY A CLEARLY MARKED
PLAYBOOK?
WOULD IT HAVE HELPED.
HERS THE COVER AND THE TABLE OF
CONTENTS.
YOU DECIDE.
PLEASE EXPLAIN.
>> THE OTHER DAY SENATOR
McCONNELL SAID THAT THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION HAD NOT LEFT A
GAME PLAN FOR THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION FOR DEALING WITH
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND IN
FACT, WE HAD LEFT A PLAYBOOK.
IT WAS EASY TO TELL THAT’S WHAT
IT WAS BECAUSE IT SAID ON THE
FRONT IN BIG RED LETTERS,
PLAYBOOK.
THEN IT HAD ALL THE STEPS YOU
NEEDED TO TAKE, 69 PAGES OF
STEPS OF WHAT TO DO WHEN THE
THREAT OF A PANDEMIC LOOMED.
NOW, WHAT’S INTERESTING IS,
NICOLLE, FIRST EVERYONE SAID NO
SUCH DOCUMENT EXISTED.
TODAY THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS
SECRETARY SAID THERE WAS THIS
DOCUMENT BUT IT WASN’T THAT GOOD
AND WE HAD OUR OWN DOCUMENT
WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FACT THAT
TRUMP’S POSITION UNTIL NOW HAS
BEEN NO ONE SAW THIS COMING.
NOW THEIR POSITION IS WE SAW IT
COMING, WE REJECTED THE OBAMA
PLAYBOOK, WE HAD OUR OWN
PLAYBOOK.
OURS WAS BETTER.
THE ONLY THING THAT’S CONSISTENT
IS THE EXCUSE MAKING FROM THE
WHITE HOUSE.
THEY’VE BEEN FIGHTING A WAR ON
FACTS.
THEY’RE NOW FIGHTING A WAR ON
FAUCI.
THEY NEED TO FIGHT A WAR ON