(upbeat music)
>> Narrator: Live from Los Angeles, it's theCUBE,
covering Open Source Summit North America 2017,
brought to you by The Linux Foundation and Red Hat.
>> Hello there and welcome to our special exclusive
SiliconANGLE Media CUBE coverage here in Los Angeles,
California, for the Open Source Summit North America.
I'm John Furrier, my co-host, Stu Miniman, for the two days
of wall-to-wall coverage, this is day two of our coverage
of what's going on in the Open Source world
as the Linux Foundation consolidates
their shows into a big tent event.
This is the inaugural event of now consolidated,
a bunch of little shows come together.
This is the big show where the Linux Foundation brings their
entire communities together to talk and cross-pollinate
with Jim Zemlin, the Executive Director,
as they outline that.
Stu, we're in our kickoff of day two, we're going to do some
analysis and commentary, but before we start I want
to get your thoughts on just day one.
Yesterday we had a lot of guests, a lot of activities
going on at night, we kind of divided and conquered.
What did you find out?
>> Yeah so John you'd done some coverage of LinuxCon a couple
of years ago, it's my first time coming to this show.
We do a lot of Open Source coverage with theCUBE's
over the years, so coming in it was like, okay,
what are we going to be talking about, what's the vibe?
And being a big tent event, you know, I was a little
surprised to see, I mean, the conversation's the same
that we've been hearing the last year.
Kubernetes, kind of the big wave that's coming in,
not just in Open Source, but really the conversation
in cloud, and really was kind of the top issue that kind of
containerization, the new way of architecting things,
you know, Linux absolutely is down there underneath,
and majorly important but, you know, it seems to be that
rallying around everything Kubernetes.
MesosCon's right next door, and we said two years ago
you never would have thought that, Kubernetes, that
Mesos would be saying, you know, the best place to run
Kubernetes is on DCOS.
You know, it was the container wars, the orchestration wars,
all those things.
Kubernetes really leading the charge there, and it really
fed into a lot of the conversations we had here.
And in our conversations, like with Christine Corbett,
and in some of the keynotes this morning,
really talking about the power of collaboration, community,
you know, stuff like that, we were passionate about John.
>> Yeah, I mean, Stu, here's my take on the big story
coming out of L.A. for this event.
And I think the top line story is this.
The Open Source community has had so much success
going in the early days and depending which generation
you want to call it, you know, we're a little bit older,
old school, maybe fourth generation, you can argue the point
but here's the bottom line.
The big story is that the Linux Foundation, Linux apps,
are everywhere, it's a global standard, it is happening.
And the scale of which the growth that's going to be coming
is unprecedented, and I think for the first time in the
history of the computer industry, you're seeing a pause.
You're seeing a moment of excitement from the
executive director, the Linux Foundation, the board members,
and the participants in the community who are realizing,
holy shit, this is going to grow very huge.
And Open Source is going to go to a whole 'nother growth
level, it's going to be exponential in scale, and you're going to
see some blitzscaling going on, as Jerry Chen at Greylock
and Reid Hoffman talk about.
And that's going to change the nature of the participation.
You're going to start to see new accelerated things,
certification, the role of the foundation certainly has
always been to serve the sustainable
communities of Open Source.
Their role will change as stewards of Open Source,
the responsibility and the reliance on the Open Source
software will continue to grow, and I think that scale
phenomenon of Open Source is, potentially, might be the
biggest wave of all, Stu, and I think some people are going to
be washed like driftwood and some people are going to
thrive and survive.
>> You know, it's interesting, we look back at Linux,
and Linux took a long time, you know, more than a decade,
to really kind of gain mainstream adoption.
You know, Red Hat, of course came out of with kind of the
leadership and the dollars, but Linux was the foundation
for everything being built today.
There would be no Google without Linux.
There would be no Amazon as we know it today without Linux.
And I really liked, I think it was strong resonance,
everybody's a little surprised, Joseph Gordon-Levitt
in the keynote this morning, someone that we know, you know,
from the movies, and we're here in L.A., they're like,
oh great, they brought an actor.
Well, he's actually pretty passionate.
He has this website hitrecord.org, where they do, you know,
collaboration, and it's people that are drawing and creating
music and creating little clips and everything and they said
how a community can help build on what they're doing.
He said it's about community, fair compensation,
and collaborating, rather than just socializing and sharing
or any of those things.
And something we've talked a lot is, what is the translation
of participating in the community translate into dollars,
translate into value.
I know it's something you're really passionate about.
>> Yeah, Stu, this is again, the big story is the growth.
But let's unpack that a little bit.
Open Source has always been about sharing, it's always been
about community, it's been about innovation, freedom,
they called them radicals in the early days but now they
got to grow, flexibility, and execution.
Here's the bottom line.
The leadership of the Open Source is going to morph radically.
Look at the program here.
You got inclusion, you got a little politics, not like
politics of open source, politics of cultural shaping
with Christine Corbett Morgan, so she's talking about that,
it's very relevant.
You have Dan Lyons coming in, talking about the programmer
culture, you have the actor coming in talking about
collective intelligence.
I believe that there's going to be a new way of how people
are going to be compensated, how participation's going to scale
and this comes down to some key tell tale signs.
One, a new generation's coming into the Open Source world,
this younger generation.
They love Serverless, the love DevOps,
because they don't want to deal with the infrastructure.
So all the old folks, guys like our age, and gals,
they have to provide leadership.
I talked with Sam Ramji about this in detail,
about how some of these stewards in the community
have to step up and be leaders in a new way of governing
because as the onboarding of more source code, more projects
with IOT, with cloud, you're going to see a new generation
of young developers that quite frankly are going to want to
run fast, run faster, and they don't want to deal with
networking, they don't want to, they want serverless,
they want true programmable infrastructure, and that's going
to potentially cause some changes, maybe at the leadership
level but also how they run things.
So, I think, Stu, this is something that we're watching
as a big wave.
>> Yeah, and it's funny because, we always talk, I'd love
to be able to extract a way, even virtualization,
oh, we're going to make it real simple, you don't have to worry
it anymore, well, you know, John, we got some more
interviews today, you know.
Networking, storage, these things just don't magically,
fairy dust, everything works really well, you know.
Data has gravity, networking has lots of challenges
we have to worry about.
Open Source is now infused into all of these environments.
Really helping to build those distributed architectures.
We had a number of interviews yesterday talking about,
these things are not easy, these are tough challenges.
You know, even you talk to people
and say, "Kubernetes is awesome,"
sure is not simple, it is not easy to crawl out.
>> They've not graduated any projects out of the CNCF yet,
talking to Chris yesterday, the COO, he said,
"look, we haven't even graduated anything out of,"
but this is the point, Stu.
Kubernetes is a tell sign, that's not fully-baked yet,
it's an under-the-hood feature.
Serverless, which I love the name and hate it
at the same time because there's servers out there.
The notion is that the due developers don't want a
provision hardware, to them they just want a resource pool,
so serverless is a good trend.
The name is kind of weak in my opinion, but I kind of love it
and hate it at the same time, I mean.
>> John, it's just like cloud was 10 years ago.
>> What do you think of Serverless, Stu?
I mean bottom line is that how could you not like Serverless
because as a developer you're just programming
infrastructure as code.
>> Right, absolutely, I want to be able to use things in a much
more granular format, I want to be able to when I'm not using
it not pay for it, it really fits into that environment.
Something of course, with this show we're talking about
is today, you say Serverless, I think AWS Lambda.
The proprietary offering, how does something like
Kubernetes fit into that?
There's containers underneath, but there are a few different
Open Source versions that functions as a service.
There's Open FaaS, there's OpenWhisk,
there's a couple of others,
so how will I be able to take what we were liking about
containers in general and Kubernetes specifically,
that I can work across a number of environments to
make sure that I'm not, John, I'm going to say the word,
locked in, to a certain provider or a certain piece
of the ecosystem.
>> Well, Open Source is so robust right now.
Again, 10% of the original ideas can be written
in code that could be part of the 90%
Open Source base code base.
Jim Zemlin, the executive director
called that the Code Sandwich.
But the bottom line in my opinion, Stu, and you were just
pointing it out is that the leadership has to scale.
And I think one of the things that came up in some of my
hallway conversations last night, talking to some folks
who have been early on in Open Source, in the old days you
had to hate someone, there was an enemy.
There was Microsoft, and now they're on board.
There was the big proprietary main mini-computer guys,
the proprietary operating systems, they were the enemy.
Who's the enemy now?
The enemy is slowness, right?
So, kind of the fundamental question is, Open Source doesn't
have that enemy anymore, it's the standard.
So the question is what is going to motivate the organizations?
To me, I think it's speed.
Speed is the new normal, scale is the new normal.
Slowness and silos will be the enemy.
>> Absolutely, John.
It's something I've heard at a number of events we've been
at recently, companies' number one thing is not cost,
it's speed, and one of the reasons that so many companies
work on, contribute to Open Source is to help them
with that speed.
They can't wait for the turn of the crank from the old
software beast, or oh gosh, there are some chips or hardware
involved in that?
Open Source, I want to be able to contribute to the code,
work on the code, ship it, move faster.
>> And the other thing that came up yesterday, I want to get
your thoughts and reaction to,
is do you have a fashion model going on here?
Never fight fashion, as we say, a good marketer would say.
You have CNCF is very fashionable right now.
But there's blogging and tackling projects that have been
around for a while, like the networking piece.
These are stable, great projects.
They just don't have the pomp and circumstance as CNCF have.
So, the balance of being trendy is an issue now for these
Open Source communities.
No one wants to work on a project that's boring
but the relevance is important.
So how do you react to that, Stu, because this is now a
dynamic, it's kind of been there for a while, but now with
the plethora of projects out there, are you nervous
that fashion, fashionable trendy projects like CNCF,
might suck all the option out of the governance?
>> No, John, I mean, from a press and a marketing standpoint
they get the attention, but I think that the stats really
prove out, there's so many projects out there.
Everybody's contributing to a lot of them, but it is
something the developers should think about.
We did an interview of a company, I remember years back,
said, "how do you get the best people
"and how do they choose what to do?"
"Oh, whatever they feel is good."
And I'm like, well, come on, you got to put a little bit
of a business guidance on that to make sure what's going to
help your business, what's going to help your career,
if you're an individual contributing to this.
There are plenty of options out there, both for starting new
things as well as contributing to the big ones out there.
And I liked what I was hearing from the Linux Foundation
as to how they're going to give some governance to companies
as to the health, that whole CHAOSS that they rolled out,
talk about the health and the circular maintenance of things
out there, but you know, so much activity.
Kubernetes by no means is taking all of the attention,
it just happens to be the current hotness.
>> Well, there's some key under-the-hood details that
are being worked on, that's the exciting part.
Linux is a standard, it is powering.
Most of the apps that are written are essential Linux apps
if you look at the OS underneath.
And again, the apps, again, the DevOps mindset is here,
and now it's scaling and things like Serverless are going to be
more greatness for developers, certainly as companies like
Google, IBM, and others come in with real code and share
and collaborate, a lot of people can participate
in the greatness of Open Source, and I think that's,
the future is bright for Linux
and the Open Source Summit community.
Stu, day two continues, live coverage here in Los Angeles.
This is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman.
Coverage of the Open Source Summit North America,
in Los Angeles.
We'll be right back with more after this short break.
(upbeat music)