Gabrielle Union, welcome to The Daily Social Distancing Show.
(laughing): Thank you for having me.
Um, it's quite a time to have you on the show,
because... everyone in America is having conversations now.
You know? Everyone in America is having conversations
that they've either been avoiding,
they've either been ignoring,
or they just didn't have the time to have.
But because of coronavirus,
everyone is having these conversations
in and around race, and I feel like you're one of the people
who was having some of these conversations
before they were "cool."
Talk me through what you're experiencing right now.
(exhales): Uh...
it's been...
honestly, it's just one big anxiety attack.
Um, between the... the global pandemic,
that-that, you know, the world is experiencing,
and waking up every day to the brutalization,
the-the...
the murder, um, of black bodies.
It's-it's daily.
Um, the-the nonstop onslaught of trauma
is... I don't even know if "anxiety" is a big enough word,
I don't know if, um,
"depression" is a big enough word,
to encompass all of... what all of...
what this all feels like.
Um, it just feels like terror in my body.
Um, and you try to figure out
how best you can, um, cope
and-and then help.
Conversations are being had
that I didn't even think people would be having
for maybe, you know, five years or even ten years.
You know, yes, it started with George Floyd.
That protest sparked everything. And then Breonna Taylor
and-and all of these bodies, as you talk about.
And then it became
not just about the black people who have lost their lives
but black people who still are living their lives.
Then it evolved from the police to, I think,
people genuinely then starting to have conversations
about just the environments that inherently...
are a by-product of systemic racism.
And people struggle to understand.
I know a lot of pe... white people
who have genuinely said, "I don't understand it."
And I've said, "B-Because you can't see a thing
when the thing is not affecting you."
You know, it's... We've seen this in institutions everywhere.
We've seen this all over America.
And you were one of the faces
that people first associated with these stories
where they went, "Wow. I know that working in a company,
"I might have an issue being black,
"and someone might say that me standing up for myself
"is me being aggressive or-or me being hyper this
or being violent when-when I wasn't."
You-you became one of those faces
in the entertainment industry. People were shocked.
They said, "Gabrielle Union, you have it great, don't you?"
And yet, very quickly, we realized
that everyone can experience this
in a different way in varying levels.
I mean, absolutely. And I... and I think...
The New York Times did an article the other day
about when Amy Cooper
and Christian Cooper's lives sort of converged.
And the fact that the Amy Cooper Central Park situation
happened on the same day
as George Floyd lost his life
and you realize
how far antiblackness
and the weaponization of whiteness,
how far it can go...
We saw what happened in that park that day.
Amy Cooper did not believe
that the rules and laws applied to her.
And she believed that in her wrongness,
she would be able to weaponize the police against a black man.
She just happened to choose the wrong black man.
-(chuckles) -Um, and-and in that same vein,
you see how antiblackness and profiling
led to George Floyd's death.
So, along this spectrum...
We all live within this spectrum, right?
So, with AGT,
trying to work within a system of,
"I thought it was the easiest show!"
How hard is it to, you know, juggle...
You know, watch jugglers?
That's what I thought I signed up for.
Day one, you know,
Simon Cowell is-is smoking cigarettes inside.
I've worked a long time.
I've worked with all kinds of people.
I've never experienced that.
So, when your boss, the person who is...
who has the ability to determine
who gets opportunities and who doesn't,
doesn't believe that the law, uh, applies to him
or the rules apply to him,
and he does it in full view of NBC
and Fremantle and Syco,
and no one cares about Simon Cowell,
you know, exposing all of these employees
to secondhand smoke, that's day one.
-That's within the first hour. -Mm-hmm.
What message do you think that sends to anyone
that has an issue with very...
the very real racism and the lack of accountability?
And it goes on and on and on.
They... You know, during the...
You know, I decided to participate
in this investigation that they were like,
"I'm going to...
We're gonna commission this independent investigation."
Well, silly me.
I thought "independent" was, like, independent.
Um, but when NBC and-and Fremantle and Syco
pay for that investigation, they control it.
So throughout that investigation that I participated in,
I talked about, you know, being in there
for five and a half hours, and my goal is change.
I'm about labor.
Treating employees fairly.
Nobody's asking for anything special.
Nobody's asking for somebody to separate their Skittles
or their, you know, M&M's or whatever.
Just treat people fairly.
Have mechanisms in place,
for when things happen, there are consequences.
And I participated in this investigation,
and the investigation was ongoing.
They turn over what they believe to be
inflammatory things
or things that are not, um, advantageous to me
over to the head of NBC, Paul Telegdy,
who then uses those things that he thinks are...
are smoking guns to, like, shoot down my claims.
He then threatens my agent.
"Gabrielle better be...
better watch who she calls a racist."
In the middle of an investigation
about racism and discrimination?
This is what's happening from the top of the company.
So, as we're all... as we're all wanting
to be part of the solution, as we're all wanting change,
we have to hold the people at the very top accountable.
-Um... -Let me... let me ask you this question.
What do you think the industry could be doing better
to help black people? And, I mean, on all levels.
-Oh. -Everyone from, you know, working in the crew
all the way through to what we see on the screen.
We have...
We have been so committed as an industry--
I mean, and every industry is facing the same thing--
with going along to get along.
Trying to figure out
how you work around the bad apples
as opposed to addressing
and making those bad apples accountable
and there being real consequences.
So, in front of and behind the camera...
So, there has to be an increase in representation
across the board, who... From the top to the bottom.
Who gets to make the decisions
of which projects to green-light?
Who is a part of those development processes?
Who gets to determine budgets?
Who gets to determine who gets opportunities and why?
Who... How have you actually empowered HR?
HR has become synonymous
with, like, how internal affairs is looked at on cop shows.
-Right. -Those are the bad guys.
But those are actually supposed to be the departments
that hold people accountable.
We have to be able
to be okay with change
that doesn't always benefit us, you know?
Some people believe that leadership,
the only way to lead,
is to center yourself in every argument.
What I'm learning throughout this whole process
is sometimes the best way to lead is to get out of the way
-and make room for someone else. -Mm-hmm.
You have to dismantle the whole thing. It's-it's...
You can't put a Band-Aid on a gunshot. We can't.
Gabrielle Union, thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Hopefully next time, we'll be chatting
about how many things moved forward
and we'll get to laugh a lot more.
-I appreciate you. -Oh, thank you so much, Trevor.
-Say hi to the family for me. -All right.