Hi, I'm Tamara Lackey
and in this episode of reDefine Show
for AdoramaTV, I speak with landscape
photographer, and educator
Matt Kloskowski, about a question a lot of
photographers have. When do you know when
it's time to head out on your own
especially when it means leaving a
relatively secure company that you've
been working for. We talk about the
fears, the preparation, and the leap.
Check it out.
How are you? I'm excellent.
I want to talk to you, and I
would love for you to share with us.
I'm in a good place for that. Your transition
out of being in the corporate world, but
certainly I was working, well initially,
actually you were in the corporate world.
Working for somebody else your whole
life! Yeah and when you decided, and why
you decided to, kind of take off, and um..
Yeah I you know, I think you don't, you
don't have this defining moment. At least
I didn't have a defining moment that
said I have to go off and do this on my
own. I think it kind of built over time I
worked at Kelby Media for for 10 years
and you did a few shows there right, you
were doing. Yeah we did, we
used to do something called Photoshop
radio. This is before podcast.
I think 2004 we had an iPod that only
played music, and a podcast was only
audio, and we stood, we used to sit there
in an office and say.. So imagine the
layers panel... and if you press this, this
will happen, and so it's sort of
Photoshop radio. Then it went to
Photoshop TV, and then we start all these
other shows. So lots of lots of different
content and opportunities and whatnot,
but I don't think, it wasn't like I woke
up one day. I'm like okay, I'm going, I'm
going to leave. It's just, you know, I think
over time you start to change, and you
start to realize, you know, maybe it's for,
for growth. It's time to move on, yeah.
So then growth. Like you weren't tall
enough! Yes, yes, I needed to get a little
bit taller! I think growth as in,
as in, I don't know, being out, I'm on my
own in a way. Honestly, I always, yeah I
don't say I always, kind of felt... and
and it wasn't a bad thing. I'm oh, like I
will be I will number one be eternally
grateful for Scott and everybody at
Kelby Media, for for giving me a platform
when really I wasn't very good! When I
started! So not only gave me a platform
but also gave me the time to grow into it.
Yeah. so always always be grateful for that.
But there honestly, I'm being real about
it, like there were times I was like, so
does anybody even care about what I do?
like outside of here you know? Like well
I leave here, and people are like... right later
buddy! That's it, nobody, nobody cares. You
know? Yeah. So I have to be honest in that,
I didn't know, and, and, and luckily found
out that there's a lot of really nice
people out there that, that, followed me,
and kind of followed me on to endeavours
after that. So the concern was, here I
know I have an audience, I know I have a
steady role, and I know that people know
who I am. Yes Matt from Kelby Media ..Kelby one but
if I leave does everything drop off?
Exactly! Yeah, and then, and then, at that
time I had toyed around with going out
on my own, and just doing education for
you know, my own website. Right, and I
honestly think you know, when you and I
have talked about this concept. I, you
know think overall things happen, there's
there's timing, and then there's
preparedness, and I think they both have
to come together, for for things to
succeed. So the time has got to be right,
and there's a few things that make
timing right, you can sense the timings
right, the industries, right, whatever.
But then there's you, being prepared, and
having a vision for it. So... I actually think
the timing probably would have been
right then, but I could never see it.
I had no vision whatsoever.
And then. Because the energy you bring into
the endeavor affects it as well. So your
energy is very insecure, and very nervous
and I'm sure you're probably creating some
of that as well? Yeah, and then to anybody
watching out there... if you know whether
it's photography, whether it's creative
design, anything.. You know? if you don't
believe it, and can't see it through and
can't see success. I don't think you're
going to get there. Like that it's really,
kind of the first step is you have to
see it. Yeah, I definitely didn't see it
then I think, part of what helped me not
see it was I had kids going to college.
There was a safety net, going to
work somewhere else with a salary...
Yeah! Consistent paycheck
and you know I wasn't going to walk in
and say hey family
guess what guys, I'm going to go out on
my own and we'll see what happens.
You guys might be paying for college on
your own. Just hang onto all the clothes you have
right now! So that wasn't, that wasn't the
right thing to do just then.
So you ended up going to On 1,
and that, that, believe it or not, it was
weird cause, I thought, I
thought it'd be interesting to be on a
different side of software. Like where I
could help develop software and build
software, and all that work. I was still
going to teach and educate there, but I
was going to kind of bring community in and
bring that community to develop the
software as well as that, you know me
kind of be the spokesperson for that, and
I realized this software world just
happens way too slow. Because right now
we're on like a certain new iteration
Beta3. And On 1's one of the
fastest! Yeah, you come in, you're like.. hey
guys... this would be a great feature. Like
ok... awesome have it in 12 months, which
in the software world is actually... exactly,
great. Yeah. And then producing a great
product but it's just a whole different
mentality, so I realized like, I'm the
photo educator. Like I just want to use
what I would want to use to get the job
done, and I kind of, I kind of need to go
all over to do that, you know, pull from
from different parts in different places
so. That was kind of the epiphany.. is, is, I
was an educator! Yeah. I was an educator
that thankfully had a lot of people that
resonated, you know like, I could talk
with. Yeah! but also On 1 was really good,
because they, the way that, the way that
they run their business. I learned a lot about
business there, and that is, when I took
the other, you know, timing and
preparedness. I think that part of that
is when I took the the preparedness, yeah
I learned a lot, and honestly! Yeah I
learned a lot there, and that's when like
you know, when I left there, and I decided
to start my own education, on my own
website. I actually knew and I have
talked about this offline, but I couldn't
see it failing. Right. Like I took that
leap, but I knew like, I just did not see...
and it sounds maybe arrogant... but I
really didn't see it! Like, I'm like, I'm
like I really know, like this is going
to work like. I can see it all the way
through. Yeah, and that is really
interesting, because you know you'd
mentioned earlier in a conversation we
had, but it might have been right five
years ago. Yeah! But you didn't see it all
the way through not even a year prior to you
doing it. No, and once it all clicked, yeah,
we used to talk back then. Yeah, I was, I
never saw it. Right! And so at this point
you found out that you were able to get
people to follow you, and maintain that
great audience, and then do course
development. Yeah, I, you know, I kind of went, I
kind of went after it, as I'm not going to
bring anything to the table, in the, the
large, big company education market. I'm
going to try to compete there, because I'm
not going to be able to bring you, you know,
everybody's bringing in all these
educators, and and kind of going a very
wide kind of spectrum of training. So I
kind of realized like, I can be almost
the 'craft beer'. Interesting.. Of
education... you know? So I'm not going to
have a hundred thousand customers. I'm
not even going to try to have a hundred
thousand customers.
I don't want twenty employees. I want ten
employees. Yeah, you know, I want, I want a
small .... me and my wife. I would love to
have a graphic designer.....
....and like a video person! But that's it!
Four craft beer drinkers with me! But I
kind of realize like, I can be the craft
beer of this where I can, I can be a
little bit more personal for people. Kind
of be there to answer questions.
Craft courses that might not sell to a
hundred thousand, but can sell to a good
group of people, that, that you know, want
to learn that way. Yeah, and are eager to
hear from you, and eager for the next
release, and that's really cool, because
that's, that's something you develop with
an audience. Through connecting with them
and yeah really understanding them, and
having that relationship, you got to hear
their questions, you got to be there to
have people ask questions, and I think
you know, in my previous lives, was
never really able to do that cause I'm so
busy going 100 miles an hour. Yeah. I was
never able to stop. Nobody could
email me, my email address did not exist
anywhere out on the web, and I've changed
that now. Now there's many places to get
a hold of me, and I can get all my course
ideas from people that ask questions.
Yeah that would make sense..
...so that brings us to the other part, which is do
you find it that, and I already know the
answer, but I'm going to ask it, do you find that
you are working less or more now... that
you're completely on your own? Oh my god,
it's... you you know the answer to that
it's... it's ten times more! But
you hesitated right there.... for the
person listening, you could have said
that either way! Oh my god... it's so
dramatic, because you could have been
like I'm working so much less! Yeah cause I
can set my own hours.. da da da... or it
could be what reality is, for a lot of
people who go out on their own. Yeah, it is,
and I thought I worked hard before that,
like throughout the 15 years in this
business. I thought, you know what? I've
put hours in... Yeah... and you know... it
just never stops. I don't know if, I know
if, you and I have talked about this
before, but like I've always considered
my audience to be people, who really do
photography for a hobby, maybe make some
money with it. I know a lot of
professionals follow me too, but really
like people just do it for a hobby,
because they love it, and so they have
other jobs, kids, got husbands, wives grandchildren or
whatever, and so you know they'll come
home after work, and you'll have a couple
hours to play in Photoshop or learn
Photoshop, so when that email dings at 8
o'clock at night I should shut it off.
But then I start thinking, I'm like well
they're like me
this is this is the time where they're
going to be able to learn.Like hey.. you
know if I don't get back to him tonight, then
they lost the whole night, so there's a
question, like they can't download a
course. The link is broke... whatever it happens
to be, but so then you you want to go
answer it, because you, you want to help
them, because they probably need it that
night. And also running your own business
means you're now in charge of all the
parts that you weren't doing before.
When somebody else was doing a big
part of it. I mean you get to own it, you
get to set direction, you can be the
vision and the strategist, and... Luckily I
have my wife with me too. So she, she
developed a good kind of, a good
marketing background. A good advertising
background, and what she did before.So
she knew how to manage an email list..
where so much is done on email... so much!
It's not on Facebook... she's like that...
Yeah, I would, I would take a class from
her. You should have her do a class.
I seriously like ... she comes in, and she
shows me his stuff.
I'm like, I never would've thought of
that. Yeah I would have just hit boost.
I'm exhausted. Ya I know that's really
helpful... partnering with the right person.
Especially... if there's somebody who can
do the job.. that you don't have an
interest in doing, and vice versa. Yeah,
yeah, that makes a big difference. Thank
you so much Matt for that wonderful
insight. It's very helpful, check us out
here next time on AdoramaTV and while we
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