>>> BREAKING INTO HOLLYWOOD HAS
A LOD TO DO WITH WHO YOU KNOW.
AWARD WINNING FILM MAKER AVA
DUVERNAY WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER
FOR HOLLYWOOD TO KNOW YOU,
ESPECIALLY AS A PERSON OF COLOR.
AVA DUVERNAY IS THE CREATIVE
FORCE BEHIND MOVIES LIKE "SELMA"
AND THE DRAMA SERIES "QUEEN
SUGAR."
LAST WEEK SHE LAUNCHED A
PERSONNEL DATABASE DESIGNED TO
HELP WOMEN, PEOPLE OF COLOR AND
UNDER REPRESENTED GROUPS GET
HIRED BEHIND THE CAMERA.
SHE JOINED US TO DISCUSS MAKING
HOLLYWOOD MORE INCLUSIVE.
AVA DUVERNAY, WELCOME TO THE
PROGRAM.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING
ME.
>> SO TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT
YOU WANT THIS TO HAVE COMPARED
TO THE WAY THAT MOVIES ARE
STAFFED TODAY.
WHAT ARE THE ONE OR TWO BIGGEST
DIFFERENCES FROM THE WAY
HOLLYWOOD TYPICALLY DOES IT?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT’S A VERY
INSULAR PROCESS.
AND IT’S NOT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN
THE REST OF LIFE.
YOU KIND OF GRAVITATE TO PEOPLE
THAT YOU KNOW.
AND, SO, THE IDEA HERE IS THAT
WE NEED TO PUSH OURSELVES AS AN
INDUSTRY TO KNOW MORE KINDS AND
CULTURES OF PEOPLE.
YOU KNOW, THAT IDEA OF KIND OF
JUST STICK WITH WHAT YOU KNOW
AND WHO YOU KNOW IS WHY WE’RE IN
A PLACE RIGHT NOW IN OUR
INDUSTRY WHERE THE NUMBERS IN
TERMS OF INCLUSION AND, YOU
KNOW, DIVERSITY OF GENDER, OF
CULTURE, OF RACE, OF IDENTITY IN
ALL KINDS OF WAYS, AGE, IS SO
LIMITED IN THE FILM AND
TELEVISION WORK THAT WE’RE
SEEING.
IT IS BECAUSE OF THIS KIND OF --
KIND OF COOL GIRLS, COOL KIDS
CLUB THAT’S REALLY HARD TO GET
INTO.
WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS OPEN THAT
UP A LITTLE BIT.
AND WE HAVE INVITED EVERYONE WHO
WORKS IN TOWN, ALL THE STUDIOS
AND NETWORKS TO JOIN US.
REMARKABLY, THEY HAVE ALL COME
ONBOARD.
>> TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT
COMMITMENT MEANS.
DOES THAT MEAN IF A MOVIE STUDIO
IS TRYING TO CREW A MOVIE THAT
THEY HAVE AGREED TO USE ARRAY
CREW FIRST OR FILL A CERTAIN
PERCENTAGE OF THE JOB?
>> NO MANDATES.
I’M A PRODUCER.
I TALK TO PRODUCERS, PEOPLE WHO
PRODUCE FILM AND TELEVISION
AROUND TOWN TO SAY, DO YOU
BELIEVE IN INCLUSION ONSET?
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT EVERYONE HAS
A PLACE ONSET?
INVARIABLY EVERYONE IS SAYING
YES.
SO WHAT’S STOPPING YOU?
WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS?
AND WHAT IS THE REASON WHY SO
MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE IN IT AND,
YET, IT’S NOT HAPPENING FOR
DECADES AND DECADES.
WHAT CAN WE DO?
IS THERE A TOOL?
IS THERE A PLATFORM?
AND REALLY WHAT WE HEAR IS THAT
IT’S A FAST PROCESS WHEN YOU ARE
CREWING UP.
YOU GOT TO GRAB PEOPLE.
YOU GOT TO GET THEM IN.
YOU GOT TO GET MAKING THE SHOW.
WHAT WE HAVE HEARD IS WE JUST
NEED QUICK -- THE OPPORTUNITY TO
SEARCH QUICKLY FOR PEOPLE WHO
ARE QUALIFIED SO THAT WE CAN
INTERVIEW THEM AND JUST SEE IF
WE COULD GET THEM INTO THE JOB.
IT WAS THAT SEARCH AREA THAT
PEOPLE WERE HAVING A HARD TIME
WITH.
SO THERE IS NO DEMANDS.
IT IS SAYING, LOOK, IF YOU
BELIEVE IN THIS AND YOU ARE
HAVING DIFFICULTY DOING IT, THIS
IS A PLACE THAT WILL LAUNCH OVER
3,000 QUALIFIED, VERIFIED FOLKS
OF COLOR, WOMEN, OLDER, THEY’RE
ALL HERE.
SO NOW YOU JUST SEARCH THEM AT
YOUR FINGERTIPS.
NOW WILL YOU HIRE THEM?
AND THAT’S THE PLACE WHERE ARRAY
CREW LIVES.
>> THIS IS BASICALLY AN
ONLINE -- I HAVE SEEN IT
DESCRIBED AS AN ONLINE DATABASE
OF PEOPLE WHO PUT THEIR
CREDENTIALS, THEIR CREDITS,
PROJECTS THEY WORKED ON AND THEN
IT IS KIND OF A ONE STOP SHOP
FOR PRODUCERS AND STUDIOS.
IS THAT IT?
>> YEAH, WITH OVER 500 SUB
CATEGORIES.
THIS IS ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT
ARE IN THAT SCROLL THAT YOU WALK
OUT ON BACK WHEN WE WERE IN THE
MOVIES.
ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE CREW.
THAT’S HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF
JOBS, A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES THAT DIFFERENT PEOPLE
DO ON THE SET.
THIS IS REALLY FOR THOSE FOLKS
TO BE SEEN BY THE PEOPLE WHO
HIRE THEM.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE GOAL IS JUST
TO, YOU KNOW, WE’VE GOT THIS
WHOLE WAY THAT CREW MEMBERS SIGN
UP.
TOTALLY FOR FREE.
AND THEN THERE IS A WHOLE BACK
END THAT REALLY HELPS PRODUCERS
FIND PEOPLE, NAVIGATE AND IT’S
JUST ABOUT MAKING IT EASIER.
IT IS KIND OF LIKE A MATCH
MAKER.
THAT’S WHAT WE’RE TRYING TO BE.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK
ABOUT WHEN I LOOK OVER THE SPAN
OF MY CAREER IS THE WAY THAT I
GOT IN THE DOOR.
AND IT FEELS LIKE PART OF THE
GENIUS OF ARRAY CREW AS WE KIND
OF WATCH IT ROLL OUT, IS THAT
THIS SEEMS LIKE IT IS DESIGNED
TO HELP PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIKE A
TOE IN THE DOOR GET THEIR WHOLE
FOOT IN THE DOOR SO THEY CAN
START TO GET ONSET, BEGIN TO
MAKE CONNECTIONS, BEGIN TO BE IN
THE INDUSTRY AND GET THOSE
CREDITS UNDER THEIR BELT AND
THEN ONCE YOU’RE IN, ALL KINDS
OF DOORS OPEN.
BUT GETTING IN AND GETTING IN
FARTHER, THAT SEEMS TO BE THE
HARD PART, AT LEAST TO ASCENDING
IN THE CAREER.
>> IT IS A PART OF IT.
BUT THAT’S NOT ALL THAT ARRAY
CREW IS ALL ABOUT.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT’S
INTERESTING, WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT
SOMETHING LIKE THIS, YOU THINK
ABOUT THE TRAINING LAYER, THE
EMERGING LAYER OF CREW MEMBERS
OR PERSONNEL OR PROFESSIONALS OF
ANY KIND.
WHAT OUR CHALLENGES IN OUR
INDUSTRY IS THAT THIS IS DEEPLY
SYSTEMIC AND IT INVOLVES BLACK
PEOPLE AND WOMEN, BROWN PEOPLE,
ASIAN PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE
WITH DISABILITIES, PEOPLE WHO
MAY BE OLDER, ACROSS THE
SPECTRUM.
THIS ISN’T JUST ABOUT, HEY,
LET’S GET SOME YOUNG WHIPPER
SNAPPERS IN THERE.
THIS IS, YOU KNOW, 10-YEAR,
15-YEAR VETS WHO FIND IT
DIFFICULT TO BE SEEN AND TO BE
KNOWN BY CERTAIN PRODUCERS,
CERTAIN STUDIOS, CERTAIN
PRODUCTIONS BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT
IN THE INSIDE OF THE
CONVERSATION.
BECAUSE THAT CONVERSATION IS SO
INSULAR.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR US,
ALL OF US, IT IS INCUMBENT UPON
US WHEN WE THINK ABOUT
INCLUSION, WE DON’T ALWAYS GO TO
THAT FIRST GET YOUR FOOT IN THE
DOOR LAYER.
WE KNOW THAT IT’S A DEEPLY
SYSTEMIC ISSUE THAT AFFECTS THE
WHOLE LIFE CYCLE OF A
PROFESSIONAL IN SO MANY
INDUSTRIES.
SO THAT’S WHAT ARRAY CREW IS
JUST -- THIS IS ONE PART OF
ADDRESSING AN OVERALL SYSTEMIC
ISSUE.
AND ONE PART THAT WE FOUND IS
LET’S JUST CONNECT PEOPLE AND
THEN THERE IS, YOU KNOW, A
MYRIAD OF OTHER THINGS THAT NEED
TO BE FOCUSSED ON BY ALL KINDS
OF FOLKS IN OUR INDUSTRY.
THE FIRST STEP IS AWARENESS.
DO YOU KNOW THAT THESE PEOPLE
ARE HERE?
THEY ARE HERE.
YOU CAN ACCESS THEM NOW.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
>> IN TERMS OF THE INSULARITY,
AVA, WHERE DO YOU THINK THE
SOLUTION IS?
OR WHAT DOES THE SOLUTION LOOK
LIKE?
LIKE WE’VE HAD THE CONVERSATION
ABOUT THE OSCARS, THE WHOLE
OSCARS SO WHITE CAMPAIGN, WHICH
FORCED THE ACADEMY TO
ACKNOWLEDGE THINGS PEOPLE HAVE
KNOWN FOR A WHILE.
THERE IS SOME REPORTING THAT HAS
SHOWN THERE ARE NO AFRICAN
MEMBERS OF THE HFPA THAT VOTE TO
GIVE OUT THOSE AWARDS.
THERE HAVE BEEN ALL KINDS OF
STUDIES IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER
OF WOMENS THAT ARE DIRECTING
MAJOR PROJECTS AND PEOPLE OF
COLOR AND SO ON.
THE PERCENTAGE OF EPISODES
DIRECTED BY WOMEN IN THE 2019
SEASON GREW FROM 31% TO 34%.
STILL NOT ON PAR WITH THE
POPULATION, BUT MORE THAN IT
WAS.
WHAT IS THE GOAL AS YOU WOULD
PUT IT?
I THINK A LOT OF COMPANIES
STRUGGLE TO SAY, HOW DO WE KNOW
WHEN WE’VE HIT IT?
HOW DO WE KNOW WHEN WE’VE GOT
THE BALANCE RIGHT?
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BALANCE
SHOULD BE?
>> 50/50.
>> FOR GENDER.
WHAT ABOUT FOR RACE?
JUST MATCHING THE POPULATION?
>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK IT IS A GOOD PLACE TO
START.
REFLECT THE REAL WORLD.
THERE IS NO REAL WORLD.
THERE IS NO PART OF THE WORLD
THAT’S ALL WHITE MEN AND ONE
PERSON THAT’S DIFFERENT.
THAT’S NOT THE REAL WORLD.
BUT, YET, THAT IS HOW SO MANY
INDUSTRIES FUNCTION.
AND, SO, AS A STARTING SHOT, WHY
DON’T WE JUST REFLECT THE REAL
WORLD AND I THINK IT’S A GOOD
PLACE TO BE IN.
I THINK THERE SHOULD BE
TELEVISION SHOWS THAT FEATURE
NATIVE AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY
EXIST IN THE REAL WORLD BUT THEY
DON’T EXIST ON TELEVISION AT
ALL.
I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SHOWS
ABOUT PEOPLE WHO CAN’T HEAR AND
THEIR REAL LIVES AS FULL PEOPLE
WITH AGENCY AND ROMANCE AND
LOVE.
LIKE THERE IS SO MANY PEOPLE IN
THE WORLD, AND, YET, OUR
PURVIEW, OUR SCOPE IS SO LIMITED
THAT WHEN IT COMES TO FILM AND
TELEVISION.
IT IS A MIGHTY INDUSTRY WITH THE
ABILITY TO MAKE PEOPLE FLY AND
CREATE NEW PLANETS AND WE CAN’T
FIGURE OUT HOW TO, YOU KNOW, GET
DIFFERENT KINDS OF PEOPLE ON THE
TUBE.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE BASICS
IS LET’S JUST REFLECT WHAT’S
REALLY GOING ON, AND I THINK IT
IS A GOOD PLACE TO START.
>> BEFORE I LET YOU GO, FOR
PEOPLE WHO WORK IN A VARIETY OF
INDUSTRIES, AND YOU HAVE
PROJECTS IN A VARIETY OF
DIFFERENT ARENAS, I THINK THE
NUMBER ONE CONCERN THAT BIDS,
BUSINESSES, MANAGERS, EXECUTIVES
HAVE IS NOT KNOWING WHERE TO
BEGIN AND NOT WANTING TO SCREW
IT UP.
RIGHT?
I DON’T WANT TO SAY SOMETHING
WRONG.
I DON’T WANT TO DO SOMETHING
WRONG.
I DON’T WANT TO OFFEND EMPLOYEES
WHO ARE TRYING TO GET ME TO SEE
SOMETHING OUTSIDE MY PURVIEW AND
I’M JUST SCARED.
I’M JUST SCARED TO SCREW THIS
UP.
BEFORE I LET YOU GO, FOR PEOPLE
IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY WHO
ARE JUST SCARED TO START.
THEY WANT TO START, BUT THEY’RE
AFRAID TO START THE WRONG WAY,
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM?
>> I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR IT.
RIGHT?
PUT YOUR HEAD UP.
PUT YOUR BIG GIRL AND BOY PANTS
ON AND GO OUT THERE AND DO WHAT
YOU NEED TO DO.
THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS PEOPLE
WHO ARE DEEPLY AFFECTED, WHO ARE
HURTING IN WAYS THAT ARE
PHYSICAL, THAT ARE MENTAL, THAT
ARE EMOTIONAL, THAT ARE
PROFESSIONAL.
SCARED?
SCARED TO DO THE RIGHT THING?
FIGURE IT OUT.
NO HANDHOLDING, NO PATTING YOU
ON THE BACK.
GET IN THERE, IF YOU ARE A
HIRING MANAGER, YOU ARE IN A
POSITION OF POWER, FIGURE IT
OUT.
IT IS NOT THAT DIFFICULT.
ALL THE HAND HOLING AND WOE IS
ME AND CLUTCHING OF PEARLS AND
TEARS, IT IS JUST A LITTLE MUCH. SO THAT’S HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
SO THAT’S HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
>> THE WEBSITE IS ARRAYCREW.COM.
AVA DUVERNAY, FABULOUS.
>> #GETOVERIT.
HOW ABOUT THAT?
YOU HELP ME COME UP WITH A KNEW
ONE.
LET’S GET IT TRENDING.