hello and welcome to ways to change the
world I'm Krishnan guru-murthy and
welcome to our first podcast of 2020 and
my guest today is the perfect guest for
the beginning of the year where we're
all desperately trying to lose weight
join gyms have dry January very boring
because he is well he's a doctor he's a
TV doctor best known TV doctor I suppose
but he's also the author of a number of
self-help books the latest of which just
came out before Christmas and it's
called feel better in five your daily
plan to feel great for life so dr.
Rankin Chesky welcome thank you very
much for having me um can you really
feel better in five you absolutely can
yeah and the whole idea behind me saying
you can if you're batter in five is
based upon almost 20 years of clinical
experience but also the best behavioral
science research and it sounds a little
bit too good to be true doesn't it
especially this time of year when we're
all making resolutions as you mentioned
right at the top you know we're making
these lofty resolutions 2020 is gonna be
my year it's gonna be my decades but we
make a few common mistakes which is why
so many resolutions don't really last
beyond January or certainly the first
week in that Bureau and that's really
what I've tried to tackle with this book
and this approach and it's this idea
that actually change doesn't have to be
as hard as we think it is I mean when
you say that I mean we need to work out
why we fail I suppose and and a lot of
us will begin the year or begin a moment
you know with it with a big goal and and
be successful for a little while and
then we give up why do we give up well
you just you actually said the ants they
said for a little while and I think
that's the key so typically what happens
we make our goal when our motivation is
really high all right so the new year
we're feeling very motivated and so we
say well I'm going to go spinning four
times a week for one hour and the gyms
20 minutes away but that's okay because
this is my year and for the first week
in January you manage the second week
third week
might manage but little by little you
start to return its your pre-existing
behaviors and actually you you you sort
of fall off the wagon because what
happens is there's something called the
motivation wave motivation doesn't say
static it goes up and it comes down most
of us plan our resolutions for when the
motivation wave is at its peak but what
we need to do is plan for when it's at
its bottom because that's what's gonna
happen a lot of the time and that's why
you need to start small I'm gonna give
you an example that's why five minutes
is about as much as you can manage well
move but but actually it sounds like a
gimmick right but it really isn't let me
tell you about a patient I saw when I
really first understood how powerful
this concept says maybe six or seven
years ago now in my practice in an NHS
10 minute consultation 42 your gentleman
came in a little bit overweight a little
bit tired and he was struggling a bit
with his moods now these are the source
of common problems which many people
around the country are struggling with
and it's quite clear to me after talking
to him that there were various
components of his lifestyle that were
actually contributing to the way but he
was feeling and I discussed a number of
options for them I said what about this
what about that and the one he weighed
he liked was strength training he said
to me don't trust you that's it I want
to do strength training what shall I do
40 minutes three times a week I said hey
if you could do that that'd be amazing
so he walks out feeling good about
himself and we make a follow-up
appointment for a month when he comes
back a month later he walks in I said
hey look how he getting on how was the
gym how're you feeling
and he looks a bit sheepish it says you
know what that's chaste she and works
been really busy the gyms actually quite
expensive it's quite far away from work
I'm not actually managed to go yet and
he looks a bit ashamed of himself
now I remember really clearly in that
moment I never thought questioned and
never thought why is he not done what
I've asked him to do I thought wrong and
you clearly not giving him advice that
he feels is relevant in the context of
the rest of his life so I told my jacket
off and I said why I'm gonna teach you a
five minute strength workout now that
doesn't require to join a gym doesn't
require you to get changed doesn't even
require you to buy any equipment nothing
by
at or tamanna said what you think you go
see how quite like it I can do that I
said look I'd like to do this of five
minutes twice a day what 10 minutes a
week as sorry five minutes twice a week
I said he said what ten minutes a week
what's that gonna do I send it it will
make a difference but can you commit to
five minutes twice a week in your
kitchen said okay I can do that no
problem so he goes away comes back a
month later and then I say hey look how
are you getting on this time his body
language is completely different he
walks in big smile on his face
so dr. chaski I start adopting of her
five minutes twice a week in my kitchen
but it's so easy to do and I've enjoying
it so much I now do it for ten minutes
every evening before my evening dinner
and he's been doing that for over five
years now right so that small change not
only was he able to do it it's ripple
into other areas of his life sauce and
now because he's feeling better
he eats better he's sleeping better he
gets up every morning and he does five
minutes of deep breathing before he does
anything else and it all started with
those five minutes now why did that work
so well because I've seen that over and
over again I've seen with patients busy
people with busy lines that you can say
all the ideal things you would like them
to do but often they come out say I
can't do it right and the biggest
obstacle to people is time and I've
really tried to address a head-on with
this book now let's look at this another
way
what we're talking about is behavior
change fundamentally we're talking about
how do you create a new habits and there
are some rules to follow that we do not
follow when we try and make those new
behaviors stick so if we look at
corporations right our behaviors are
constantly being changed by the world
around us by its Amazon is a prime
example when Amazon moves to one-click
ordering about three or four years ago
but estimates say that their profits
went up by about 300 million dollars a
year that's incredible from one change
300 million dollars more a year but it
makes sense when you understand behavior
change because three four years ago what
did you have to do find what you want to
buy go to the next screen type in your
details put on your expiry date
confirm order place order it there three
or four steps you have to take before
you can you know participate in that
behavior
by making it one click ordering before
you've blinked something's being
delivered to you the next day why it's
so they're using it to get you to spend
more money as they should because that's
their job right online streaming
platforms Netflix whatever they you know
they roll one episode into the next
episode
that's not an accident that is done so
before you've had time to think and
think no I'm pretty tired I've got works
one morning I should probably go so
Bad's the next episode started so I'm
saying there are some simple rules to
follow and these corporations are
following them to get you to do what
they want as they should that makes
sense in retail where you know if you
make things easier for people then
they're gonna spend more on it because
it's just easier to do but um when it
comes to health and happiness and
fitness you know what happened to no
pain no gain
you know actually having to invest some
time and effort yes what there's nothing
wrong with the best in time and effort
and I agree we need to invest time and
effort but if we start off trying to
invest all that time and effort we do it
for a week or two and we fall off
whereas if you start small it builds so
why does that work right because it that
case and I've got many case like
illustrates just how powerful that is so
if we just break that case down a little
bit in terms of what's going on and
behavior change there by making it easy
I followed that one-click ordering
process he did not need to join a gym he
did not need to drive anywhere he didn't
need to change his clothes right so I've
made it easy for him to do that behavior
how many times the people not engages ah
you know I'm tired
coppy bother drives to the gym now you
know what gym gym memberships frankly
aspects for gym only the other day told
me actually our business model works on
the fact that people don't turn up right
I think if everyone who joined a gym
actually turned up you probably won't be
able to get in right so that's the first
thing but can I just add a second thing
which is really important because I know
that this sounds a little bit like a
gimmick right but it is the only
approach I found to consistently work
well over almost 20 years of seeing
patients with people did you notice what
I said about his behavior his his body
language the first time he came back he
looked ashamed of himself he was talking
quietly
or - or service haddock you know I'm not
manage to do it so he isn't reinforcing
the belief that he can't stick to a
change oh you know I've tried help on
support it's not for me by making it
easy his identity starts to change
he follows what the doctor asked him to
do he feels good he started to increase
it not because I told him to but because
he felt like he wants to and I really I
really think this is a very very
powerful thing that as I say that's just
one case but actually the research also
supports that for most people the way to
make sustainable change and what I start
you said short-term change right people
you can make short-term change doing
anything you can by any health work in
January and if you follow it for two
three weeks you will feel better but as
adults oh that doesn't interest me I'm
interested in how do you feel good in
January but how do you still feel good
in February March April May and there is
a way to do it well I mean I was gonna
say I mean it is in line with everything
else you do in broad terms both in terms
of doctor in the house that you know the
TV series that you've you've done going
in to try and change people's lives and
the other books you've done as well
so I mean we'll we'll come to the detail
of the plans in a moment but I just
wanted to step out of that for a little
moment just say you're a man on a
mission I am on a man on a mission yeah
I am
I mean look I've been a Datsun app
almost 20 years right and I went to
medical school with a view to helping
people that's what I thought I was gonna
learn how to do when I did up to a point
and as I started practicing I started
off in hospital medicine I did my exams
to become a specialist I was working in
kidney medicine I felt you know are we
becoming a little bit reductionist about
health we're looking at all the
different organs as separate parts and I
just felt for me I didn't want to spend
the rest of my career just seeing kidney
problems and so I took the rather
unusual step to go from that to becoming
a GP and my dad I've got was a little
bit shocked surprised that I made that
move from going from this sort of
esteemed hallowed turf of you know
training to be a specialist to move
to becoming a generalist but that's what
I did and I gotta say I love my job as a
GP because I get to see everything I get
to join the dots and see how one thing
affects another thing and how that
affects another thing and how all these
various fats is playing together to
actually influence the way that we're
feeling and one day of my GP practice I
remember it was a busy day I think I'd
seen someone between 40 and 50 patients
and it looked at the list and I asked
myself wrong and how many people have
you really helped today and hand on
heart I thought that helps about 20% of
people the other 80% I've done something
you know I've referred them or something
for a test but I thought they're gonna
be back I might put a sticking-plaster
on their sensor but they would be back
and I was getting really quite for
streisand a few life experiences it
changed my view and I went out to learn
I said I'm not gonna do this in that's
30 40 years I'm gonna find another way
to really help these people so are you
in truth a bit of a sort of a skeptic
when it comes to medicine there's a lot
of doctors are because what you're
concentrating on is is this health and
well-being and living a better life
rather than fixing things when they go
wrong yeah you know what I think that's
an interesting way to put it
I'm not skeptical of medicine per se
right I think the way we're trained is
for an era that has moved on so we are
trained to look at a set of symptoms
come up with a diagnosis and generally
speaking prescribe the solution to that
34 years ago question that worked really
well why most problems that came to see
a doctor
what acute problems right so let's say
you had a chest infection right really
bad chest especially your coffee you got
a fever you're bringing up lots of green
phlegm you got to see a doctor the
doctor says yeah actually this might be
an ammonia might be a chest infection
there's the overgrowth of a bug I'm
gonna give you a pill it's gonna kill
that bug and a week later that problems
gone away right brilliant modern
medicine at its best the problem is a
health landscape at the UK and and many
countries around the world has changed
dramatically in the last 20-30 years
when the bulk of what we say
it's in some way driven by our modern
lifestyles and I think 80% of what GPC
is now in any given day is in some way
driven by our collective modern
lifestyles I'm not putting blame on
people life is difficult
we're burnt out with stress with
juggling multiple tasks many of us have
got elderly parents were looking after
their two parents are working trying to
juggle the kids they have a lots of
pressures in the modern worlds but we
have to accept that that is having a
negative consequence on our health not
just at BCC and type-2 diabetes which is
what everyone always talks about when it
comes to lifestyle but also things like
mental health problems which are on the
rise you know depression anxiety
insomnia inability to concentrate for
long you know all these kind of modern
afflictions gut problems like these are
all on the rise and many of them are
driven by our lifestyle we were not
taught
I don't feel adequately well enough to
deal with these problems so I think
we're very good in medet in medicine
with acute problems I don't think we're
quite as good at chronic problems and so
am i skeptic no I just think we need to
progress the way we practice medicine
take what is good I keep using it but
expand our toolbox people go to the
doctor for antidepressants and sleeping
pills all the time are you one of the
doctors now who's not giving them out
I'm saying don't do that do this look I
once am a doctor who's not giving them
out I think it's about the appropriate
course of action for the patient in
front of you so if a patient wants a
pill based solution and I've given them
other alternatives okay I'm okay with
that I would never you know withhold
something from a patient if that's their
desired choice but a lot of time we're
not giving them a choice we're saying oh
you've got this problem this is the drug
to take I'm saying hold on a minute well
why don't we have a conversation with
the patient and let them choose a
Christian Odyssey if you give patients
choices more often than not they say
actually you know I wouldn't mind if you
could help me to make a few tweaks in my
lifestyle and see what happens I am NOT
an SI medication I am an see the over
prescription of medication for lice are
driven issues without giving patients
choice that's what I'm against and
that's frankly what I'm trying to change
why did you want to be a doctor I mean
you are the son of a doctor an Asian
immigrant not
me you know we were all expected to go
and be doctors did you become a doctor
because you were expected to go and be a
doctor you know I think it's a great
question and I think there's an element
of that because I grew up as you as you
say my dad was a doctor a lot of his
family were doctors and all my family
friends growing up were doctors my
parents friends were all doctors right
so what did I see
my world was all adults around me our
doctors therefore you know I'm acutely
aware of this now as a parent so the
opportunities we give our kids what
they're exposed to is what they think is
possible so of course that was a natural
progression for me but I also think I've
always had this desire to help people
because I've been thinking about this a
lot we see I think my mum she's always
been really good at caring for people
I've always observed her how she cares
for other people and I think I've always
warmed to that and really liked that so
I couldn't say the exact reason why I
became a doctor it was a bit of culture
but if what I was exposed to a bit of
this decide to help people that's why I
end up becoming a doctor but I think for
the first few years I didn't realize it
but I was quite dissatisfied I think I
really felt I thought I'd got the keys
to help people get better and a lot of
the time I felt I really wasn't doing
much but from palliating symptoms and I
think in the last six or seven years is
when I've really found you know my
passion within medicine and that passion
is how do you get to the root cause of a
problem how do you inspire the patient
in front of you to make change in want
to make change and fundamentally when
you ask this question what you're really
talking about is about there the NHS and
modern medicine per se is focused on
disease we're not focused on help lies
and the lifestyle conversation always
goes like this yeah we know lifestyle is
important but people know what to do
they're not doing it right
and I think that's because we don't
teach people how to do we give people a
lot of what to do but not how to do it
so I think that's one component there
but I also think we look at lifestyle
purely as prevention I'd say yeah
lifestyle Prevention's much better right
of course hits but my
I'll also can work as treatments and
that's again another missing piece which
I'm trying to change and the way I'm
trying to change that apart from the
work I do with podcasts and TV shows and
books you know I created the very first
Royal College of GPR krytus ed
prescribing lifestyle medicine course
we'd be running it for two years now
fully accredited by them we've taught
over a thousand doctors cardiologists
psychiatrists GPS endocrinologist we're
teaching them a framework of how you can
personalize the lifestyle advice for the
patient in front of you even within a
tight ten 15 minute NHS consultation and
feedback on it has been amazing and the
reason so many different professions
including psychiatrists are coming to
learn about how you do this because
we're not taught about this and most
doctors I think who were really honest
with themselves will go you know what
we're not helping quite as many people
as we thought we were going to when we
went to medical school I mean is it also
about how prevention is better than cure
is packaged it feels a bit like medicine
no it feels like hard work whatever it
is that you're going to do rot rather
than something desirable it's gonna make
your life better yeah you know you've
nailed it did the whole idea behind you
know what I'm about in this book is who
says health has to be boring and about
deprivation and about punishment in the
gym that's the idea we've been sold
that's what health is right but it's
simply not true health can be fun where
do the bad things come in I mean you
know does you know feeling better I mean
you can't get drunk you can't have a
crafty smoke and can't take recreational
drugs you can't do any of those terrible
vices that make people feel terrible if
they do them a lot not at all I think
health is very individual thing that we
have to figure out for ourselves what
we're happy with I don't know there's
one prescription for all and even the
word terrible vices I'd probably say we
could rephrase that a different way you
know behaviors that we choose to engage
in as they make us feel good once I
don't think is anything necessarily
wrong with that but and I think this is
really important in January for example
how
people at the moment around the country
do we think are trying to either quit
alcohol reduce that alcohol in sake or
reduce their sugar intake I don't know
the numbers but a lot of people right
now here's what I see over and over
again the new year comes Ryan I set I
really hit it hard every Christmas in
year that's it this is gonna be my year
soon me my decade rights I'm gonna cut
this all out and they can manage for a
week two weeks three weeks they manage
rights but bit by bit they start to
creep back to their pre-existing intake
so why is that cuz I saw that over and
over again and I think the reason is is
that often those behaviors serve a role
in our lives so often sugar excess
snacking in the evening let's say or
alcohol is our way of coping with the
stresses in our life so if you don't
address the stress but you just try and
address that downstream behavior you're
missing a big part of the picture and I
see this over and over again you know
people are trying to reduce the alcohol
intake I don't think that just telling
them alcohol causes this you know a B
and C you should drink less I don't
think it works very well I think
knowledge doesn't always lead to action
and I Saul I think a lot of public
health interventions and public health
guidance
I think failed you need to check you
need to stop the need for the drink
ultimately in the long term I think the
only way to change that behavior long
term is by addressing why you're
choosing sudha in the first place and
when people do that they may still
choose to drink but they might choose to
drink a bit less right I saw a patient
wants for example I got me at his age
may be late for C's businessman and he
said to me that he was really worried
about his health he was drinking too
much and there was all kinds of
downstream issues from that energy
problems problems in his relationship as
we started looking at things and he said
look I've tried before cutting out I
could do a week or two but then I go
straight back to what I was doing before
I just can't make it stick so just one
of my consultations we had a look at
this week so tell me what you do in a
week
and went through it there was a pattern
every Wednesday early afternoon he had a
meeting with colleagues I'd have yet to
present at its
and he found that quite stressful and he
wouldn't drink on Monday inches a night
but on a Wednesday evening as soon as he
got home he'd crack open a bottle of
wine because that was his way of coping
with the stress of that day and he'd
stop having a glass and almost certainly
he'd finished the whole bottle then he
wouldn't sleep well Thursday he'd have
even more caffeine to get him through
feeling more stressed and anxious at the
end of day and there's a vicious cycle
and he would only feel fresh again like
on Monday and I said well look it seems
to say that Wednesday meeting is your
trigger points and I wonder if that's an
alternate way that you might want to
de-stress from that and just see that
makes a difference now for him that
happens to be a yoga class near his
office or near with it where that
meeting was and I said well would you
consider doing that he goes look I'll
give it a go I'm not very hopeful but
I'll give it a go so on Wednesdays when
he finished work he'd go to that yoga
class and then he'd go home and what's
with the interesting is for him that
yoga class burns off the stress of his
day he's still opened a bottle of wine
but on the west and now he just had one
glass and he thought was satisfied with
that one glass that then had a knock-on
effect on to the other evenings and
actually probably reduces intake by
about 7080 percent just by that one
intervention so no he's not given up
alcohol
he's got no intention of giving up
alcohol but he now uses it in a way that
fits his myself better and I think
there's so many cases out there like
that we're simply going to dry January
doesn't teach you anything about the
existing drive behind that behavior
you've got to be quite open-minded to
swap a bottle of wine from a yoga class
you do that's quite a step but to be
fair he tried and failed a few times so
he was looking for help right I think
where you are on that on that line will
also determine how open you are to try
new things like I'm sure if six months
prior to that I mentioned that I think
said yeah okay whatever talk but you
know he was having relationship problems
he had tried and he had failed
repeatedly as he was like looking for
help at that point but I think that that
case really illustrates just how
powerful it can be for all of us myself
included to look at our lives I'll go
what's the trigger point when do I start
to go downhill and engage in behaviors
that I don't ordinarily like but this
week I'm in London right I'm doing
events every evening I'm doing breakfast
about something interviews all day I'm
knackered I'm not sleeping well I'm out
of my routine I am starting to crave a
lot of sugary sweets and treats but I
actually don't tend to have one over at
home in my routine and I'm standing in a
tube station looking at that pack of
sweets and let you know what I'm gonna
have that I really feel like it and I am
I'm cracking right and people think oh
you're the health and wellness sort so
you know but you know I'm human right
I also AM susceptible to the same
desires as everyone else and I find it
hardest control when I'm tired and I'm
stressed but as at home I control my
environment so don't keep my stuff
around me so it's hard for me to do that
behavior I mean it is interesting that
your your approach to this is not to say
if modern life is the cause of so much
of these problems change the way your
your living rather than you know change
change your sort of your health habits
and your your living the same kind of
hectic mad life of being a doctor for
half the week podcasting writing books
being on the telly yeah doing promotion
I mean I mean is that is that just you
because you enjoy it or because you
don't really think it's possible to opt
out of modern life yeah the modern world
yeah I think it's a great question I
think it is very difficult to opt out
fully I guess the question is how much
do we want to opt in up to what point we
are living in the modern worlds we are
all susceptible to the pressures out
there and I'm saying you can't change a
lot of that but what you can change is
focus a bit of time each day on yourself
and again if we take tooth brushing as
an analogy then it's a brilliant one you
brush your teeth once a day I'm guessing
right probably for around two minutes in
the morning and two minutes in the
evening you don't need to be motivated
to do that you don't need your wife to
remind you hey come on you need to brush
your teeth tonight oh you do it right by
the way it's January whether you're
knackered and you've done a long long
day I'm guessing you're still brush your
teeth before you go to bed like that is
a habit so all of us are giving
ourselves four minutes on our dental
hygiene a day now I'm making the case
because
the 5-minute recommendations I make is
split up into three areas mind which is
mental health body which is moving your
body and hearts which is about human
connection which i think is probably the
most important one we can talk about
that if you wants but I'm saying if
you're gonna give your dental health
four minutes a day to be not oh it to
ourselves to give our physical health
mental health and emotional health four
or five minutes a day as well because if
we don't are we saying that our dental
health is more important and we sort of
are really and I think the reason is
because we don't think of it like that
it's five minutes enough well let's flip
it if that wasn't a glass of water if
that was a glass of a sweet sugary
beverage right full of calories that say
and if I asked you for five minutes a
day every day to drink for five minutes
continuously that drink it wouldn't
surprise you would it if in a few days
actually starts to fill your teeth
feeling a bit sensitive you feel a bit
moody feeling a bit fatigued you're not
sleeping so well well substitute that
for a cigarette right a few days if you
don't smoke and you smoke a cigarette
for five minutes day you know that you
gonna start coughing you're not gonna be
feeling so good we know that bad habits
add up very quickly but we don't look at
good habits in the same way and I know
that if you devote five minutes to two
good habits rather than bad habits they
add up in exactly the same way so let's
break it down that I mean as you say
you've broken it down between mind body
and hearts let's start with mind give us
some examples mind is this idea that
21st century living is tormenting our
minds right what overloaded with
stressed outs you know we've got so many
things we have to do there's like three
social media channels to be checking and
emails there's no cut off anymore
between work life at home life because
we've all got our work on our phone
right and the whole idea in mind is I
want people to devote five minutes a day
to their minds something that nourishes
their minds so what could that be it
could be five minutes of breathing it
can be five minutes of nature we know
that nature switches off your minds we
know that nature
literally physiologically changes you
reduces levels of the stress hormone
cortisol you can have your cup of tea in
in the in the garden in the morning
why journaling five minutes of
journaling dumb polite there's a brain
dump yeah I think this is such a
powerful exercise so many of us are
struggling with anxiety and stress
particularly first thing in the morning
we've got all these anxieties in our
minds and we don't process them so we
keep them in our mind and then we crack
on with our day and we wonder why
they're getting stress and worked up now
there are two ways of doing this the
first thing you can do is for five
minutes you can literally do a brain
dump you can literally write anything
that's going on in your mind onto a
piece of paper and it has to be written
it doesn't have to be you could
technically deal on your phone but you
talk to psychologists some of the
research I read suggests that the act of
writing it down seems to be a bit more
powerful but I don't want that to put
people off right if they want to do it
on the phone do it on your phone doing
it is better than not doing it the idea
of burning it I really liked yes write
down your worries and then set fire to
them every morning yeah why I said do it
some people get worried that who's gonna
read this I said this is not for someone
else to read it's not even for you to
read if you don't want if you don't want
it burn it when you finished and I've
got two pages who actually do that's
animates of your worthy good is that
they've got it out ahead they've got
onto paper that they're panicked there
are all these what I call health snacks
five-minute health snacks and all I'm
asking us to do is choose one you just
choose the one that fits you and fits
your life and so if you give people too
much choice it could be overwhelming
that constantly saying but look I'm
giving you options because nobody's
symptoms
nobody's lifestyle nobody's work
pressures is the same so I don't know
what's gonna work for you but I'm gonna
give you the best five minute
recommendations I have seen in nearly 20
years of seeing patients and you'd all
you need to do is choose three the work
for you so you choose one from mines and
I've just covered mines should move on
to body yeah so body is what I've called
the second section which is basically
about physical health we know we need to
move our bodies more what everyone is
trying to yet each year we're getting
told how much more inactive and set and
sedentary as a population we're becoming
and so I'm thinking what people know the
information but they're not leaving what
I've created lots of five minute
workouts why it's
but strength workouts interval workouts
5-minute Yoga flows five minutes of
dancing who says working out can only be
done in a gym when you've got the right
gym gear on to do it
dancing counts but we don't apply that
in fact there's a wider point here
question which is have we lost touch
with what movement really is and I
interview someone called Sanjay Rai
while we see on my podcast and he's made
a film called 30-100 he's looked at
tribes around the world who run so in
the interesting these these tribes run
long distances they don't have like one
outfit for living in and then when they
go running they get change into their
their running gear they just live and
movement as part of their life and you
know there's that there's really nice I
think theme in that way and says that
we've complicated movement far too much
and all these kind of five-minute
movements are created they require no
equipment no gym membership they don't
even require to get changed some of them
have to do with your posture and I've
got office workers in there wearing what
you're wearing doing them at lunch time
so don't get sweaty and again the whole
theme is we can say ideally we would
move this much every day but anything is
better than nothing
don't you have to get sweaty for it to
do you any good not at all
yoga does engage sweaty yoga has been
shown to have a lots of benefits for the
body of course being getting sweaty has
benefits of its own I absolutely agree
right yeah I'm not saying this is the
only thing you have to do but if you
only commit to this and you feel
satisfied at the end of the day if
you've done your three 5-minute health
snacks you know you're doing something
proactive about your health this will
bleed into other aspects of your
lifestyle and that's the secret right
you start off with this provide a
foundation to your everyday well-being
right so hard what sort of five minutes
workout for your heart yeah well let me
tell you what heart is first because I
think heart doesn't naturally make sense
what I was taught about the heart at
medical school and what I was taught was
at the heart is a physical organ that
pumps blood around your body right the
hearts got another meaning hearts got
meeting their you know artists and poets
and songwriters have been waxing
recover about four yes right and that's
about connection connection with other
people and I think connection is
fundamentally what it means to be a
human being
now this is a big problem loneliness is
reaching epidemic proportions recent
studies suggest sir the feeling of being
lonely is as harmful for your health as
smoking 15 cigarettes a day feeling
lonely
people who feel lonely die are 50
percent more likely to have premature
death 30 percent more likely to have a
heart attack or stroke loneliness is
real and it is toxic for your health and
when we think about loneliness we're
thinking about the elderly but actually
men between the age of 30 and 45 are
probably one of the loneliest groups and
society we're living these ultra
connected lives on fairs and emails we
think we're more connected than ever
before that may be true with digital
connection but in terms of like
meaningful human connection I don't
think we've ever been this isolated so
heart is all about five minutes a day of
connection connection with your partner
connection with friends connection with
yourself and I actually think this is
the most components of health I think
it's the most undervalue components of
health
I think the January narrative is always
about alcohol diets and movements and
actually what I've seen Christian is
when you get hearts right when you get
connection right body and minds actually
take care of themselves because often
it's that lack of connection we feel
that causes us to engage in a lot of
those other behaviors so to give you a
tangible example of what I'm talking
about
my favorite heart recommendation is what
I call the tea which or something I use
with patients that are used with myself
and this is the whole idea that
relationships these days are under
strain a lot yes divorce rates are going
up and there's many reasons for that but
for those of us who are not looking at
divorce many people feel a sense of
dissatisfaction with their relationships
and one of the reasons is is because
even when we're with the people we love
we're sort of distracted we're kind of
half looking at our phones I'm sure you
know that feeling
right it's when you're on the receiving
end of that it's not a nice feeling when
you try to communicate with someone and
they're actually destroyed sense right
so the tea ritual has about five minutes
of focused connection time so
how I do it is when my kids are in bed
and they're consciously normally by
about ASA o'clock my wife and I come
downstairs make a pot of mint see and
for five minutes we put our phones away
and we sit there and ask each other
about our days it sounds so simple but
the regular practices of doing that has
made us feel closer to one another
there's more intimacy in a relationship
and it all starts without five minutes
of connection it's something that is so
simple that was probably in all lives 20
years ago but but the pace of life and
how it's changed rapidly
is causing consequences in all aspects
of our health so that's one thing
actually one of my patients has me
recently doctor I think that's here
which all has saved my marriage right it
really worked I know it seems how or
five minutes a day I challenge you to
try it I want to say genuinely if you
make that commitment it makes a big
difference and again it doesn't have to
be with a partner one of my patients who
I was gonna say what if there's no wife
or partner absolutely well one of my
patients that I rise for in the book
does it with a work colleague so every
lunchtime she'll have a cup of seen for
five minutes of a lunch break they'll
take themselves away from the can scene
put their phones down they're not
allowed to talk about work and they just
chew the fat for five minutes and again
she's reporting a real knock-on effects
and the rest of her health now I took
about connection and some people will
say doc that's all very well if you have
a partner or you've got friends I don't
have anyone that it's a real real issue
for many people so what you do about
that
well the suggestions I give to those
people are look do you have any hobbies
if you've got some hobbies that say you
like I don't know I don't know and
you're a guy in your life football okay
yes for a local fiber side club that you
can join do you like yoga can you go to
a local group because when you go there
you meet other like-minded individuals
who you can maybe start to engage in
another one of my favorites is Park run
right Park one is taking off in the UK
I interviewed Nick the CEO of Park quite
a while ago on the podcast and he said
know what Rangan Park run is a social
intervention masquerading as a running
events it's all about the social
community connection and so I've got
some patients who don't like to run the
story I can think of the hands
who I recommended Parkman see they don't
want to run so they go and volunteer
each week I guess transform them move
and their well being and so this whole
connection piece there's many of this
five minutes of gratitude there is
research on gratitude right there is
actual proper science of research shown
that gratitude a daily process of
gratitude helps your psychological and
your emotional health you know as humans
we've got this thing called a negativity
bias were hardwired to look at the
negative but it's what has kept us alive
for a million two million years but
actually for many of us now when we're
living in relatively safe environments
that negativity bias is working against
us but the question I suppose you know
you end up coming back to is why you
think this is not going to end up like
every other method and is it simply
because this ease you know that it's the
easiest thing you can possibly do and
therefore you're less likely to give up
yeah
the reason this is I think unlike pretty
much every other health and well-being
plan out there at the moment is because
it's found that in behavioral science
research most of the well-meaning books
and and I'm you know sorry that sounds
really kind of saying I didn't mean it
in that way everyone writing health what
says trying to help people a lot of the
time it's like look I've been on this
journey this has helped me I think this
is going to help you and I get that I
don't have a problem with that but a lot
of them overly rely on willpower and
motivation and the research says that
motivation doesn't stay up willpower
doesn't stay up it always dips so if you
plan for you when your motivation site
you will never be able to make it a long
so and behavior if you have to brush
your teeth for half an hour a day I
wonder if you'd been doing it you know
30 40 you know yes you know this is the
hard thing it is simple but it is
founded in the best and most up-to-date
research and I think that's what's
really hard for people I think you're
trying to what you're trying to do with
this or what I'm trying to do
it's almost unwinds third C and four
years of 30 and 40 years of conditioning
conditioning by the fitnah century
conditioned by the media and you know I
don't don't mean that with any sort of
mal intention
but this whole I did help is heart
health is difficult it doesn't count
unless it's hard it doesn't cows unless
it's deprivation why we know that every
year there's a new new year new you
market white because everyone's fallen
off the wagon they want to get back on
this is my attempt to try and change
that will I be successful I don't know
but I certainly hope so
and where does sort of your personal
success or wealth come into it you know
a lot of lifestyle gurus become
fantastically wealthy especially in
America yeah they're superstars is that
what you want that is not what drives me
I think people who know me I think if
people have seen what I've done for last
four or five years I'm consistently
trying to get the same message over and
over again I'm trying to give people
simple accessible health information
pretty much everything I recommend
people is free you know I'm not selling
them supplements I'm not selling people
plans right I'm simply trying to give
people information that is free so it is
not what I'm after I'm after making that
impact because I believe that people are
connecting with the way I'm
communicating with their arms seeing the
impacts of that's I became with also to
help people now I've been hugely
influenced by my son's illness when he
was six months and caring for my dad for
15 years and dad died six years ago and
it's no coincidence that a lot of the
things I've done in public have happened
since my dad died when that Nisha
initially used to cause me a bit of
regret I thought you know the things
that my dad probably would have been
proudest about in my career have all
happened since he died but as people who
are carers know if my dad was still
alive I wouldn't have had time to do any
of this
so I'm driven by a mission sure but that
mission isn't about ego and it is not
about Fame this mission is about helping
people this is about seeing a sick
society that I think doesn't need to be
this sick and that's what drives me um
what do you think your dad would have
made of the way you've taken your
medical career because I mean he was a
hospital doctor was a hospital sir he
was a conventional medic I if I'm honest
I think he probably would have been a
bit skeptical at first I think it would
be I think he would have been what are
you doing you know what what is this you
know and people do say is this real
medicine
well medicine has to be relevant to the
times maybe this medicine wasn't needed
in the 20th century but this is medicine
of the 21st century these are the
problems that are facing the bulk of
doctors today so we can't use what I
call 20th century tools for 21st century
problems right we have to adapt it's not
saying medicine is either good or bad
medicine is brilliant medicine is the
life-saving the advances we made in the
20th century are aBSI fantastic I am
proud to be a doctor I am proud of what
my profession has achieved all I'm
saying is we need to pick a toolbox now
and so yeah I wish my dad could have
seen this and it would be you know it's
an interesting thought what would here
thoughts I'm pretty sure he'd be proud
of what I'm achieving now and what I'm
doing now but I think there would have
been a bit of skepticism and a start for
sure my normal sort of last question is
if you could just change the world what
would you do well we've been talking
about changing the world throughout this
this interview but I don't know whether
there's an answer you can give to that
question I think honestly I'd probably
put connection Y to the heart of it and
make sure that the attention we give to
diets and nutrition and physical
activity we actually instead focus on
giving that priority it's a connection
have we spent a bit of time each day
truly connecting with another human
being
I think we do that we'd have a kinder
world we have a more compassionate world
and I think we'd have a healthier world
wrong and chatterjee thank you very much
do for sharing your ways to change the
world has been a fascinating
conversation I hope you've enjoyed that
if you did then please do give us a
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these interviews on the Channel 4 News
YouTube channel our producer today is
rachel evans until next time