- Congratulations, man. This is an amazing piece of work,
and on all accounts, the entire cast.
You, [Lin-Manuel Miranda], you just kill it.
'Tick, Tick... Boom!' is the film.
Let's talk about this,
because you didn't have a musical theater background.
You didn't consider yourself a singer before this.
So I guess my question is,
is it supreme confidence, supreme madness, supreme what
to say yes to starring in this beloved musical
opposite amazing musical performers?
- I don't know. It's a longing to feel alive, really.
For me, it's like a longing
to push myself to the edges of myself
and see if I survive it.
And I don't know why I'm addicted to that.
It is like an extreme sport acting thing, you know?
So I'm always looking
for that next kind of adventure and exploration
to see if I survive, to see if I make it out alive,
so to speak, metaphorically speaking.
I don't think anyone's died from not acting well.
I don't think that's a thing.
Lin had the belief, really.
Lin had seen me in 'Angels in America,'
and he thought, "Well, if he can do that,
he can probably sing."
And I think, you know, he knew I was right for the role,
but again, the question was, can he get there vocally?
And then, you know, all he did was,
he really provided me with the time, the space, and
you know, I had a year, a year and a half,
and the resources to peel back the onion
and let my voice kind of flow.
And that was an amazing singing teacher
called Liz Caplan for the most part.
And then outside of that, you know,
his whole musical direction group.
Alex Lacamoire, you know,
he's the other side of Lin's brain, basically.
And, you know, Kurt Crowley, who does all of, you know,
he's the musical director for 'Hamilton' and
opens the shows everywhere.
So I had this amazing support system.
And it was a real took-a-village kind of thing.
It was a tribal thing.
And I was only able to get there
with kind of time, space, and resource,
'cause I think anyone can develop a skill
if they're given love.
Anyone can grow a flower, you know,
if you give the flower attention, water, and love
and you sing to them, you know what I mean?
So I think that's what they were all doing to me.
And the same thing with the musical performance around me,
with [Alexandra Shipp] and Robin de Jesus and Vanessa [Hudgens] and [Joshua Henry]
and Mj [Rodriguez] and Ben Ross.
They were all singing to me.
They were trying to help grow me as well,
and they were doing it with such love.
It was the most incredible community experience
that I had ever had.
- You talk about love.
I mean, this is a film about love, about loss.
I mean, it's a lot of conflicting emotions in this film.
And I know you were going through a lot
of conflicting emotions personally, prior to this.
You suffered a great loss prior to this film.
I'm wondering when you see your performance in this,
I mean, do you see the pain
that you were going through underneath?
- Yeah, of course.
Yeah. It's all in there.
And I'm so happy that it is, because it's a tribute.
All the grief that we experience, I'll speak for myself,
but my experience of grief is all the unexpressed love,
you know, all the unexpressed love
that you had for the person,
whether it's at the end of a relationship
or the end of someone's life or otherwise.
There's a beauty to that pain.
There's a beauty to fully feeling
and expressing that grief,
'cause it's an honoring of that,
it's an honoring of the absence, the huge hole,
an impression that that person has left in your life
and in your sense of the world
and in your sense of joy and meaning in the world.
So for me, to be able to honor my mother
in every frame of this film,
through my grief, through my sorrow,
through my joy, through my longing,
to complete and sing some more notes of her song
while she can't be here to do it herself,
while also being able to sing, you know,
notes of Jonathan Larson's song
that was finished and half-finished and not completed,
because he passed away at a young age, too.
And the film is so much thematically about
the shortness of time that we have here,
and Jonathan felt it and knew it so acutely,
not just from seeing all of his friends
and his theater community,
so many of them who were getting sick and dying from AIDS
in their early twenties, in some cases.
But also internally,
he knew, he had the sense of his own shortness of life,
and it was prophetic,
'cause he died at the age of 35 of an aortic aneurism,
and his heart exploded on the eve of the first preview
of 'Rent' off Broadway.
He didn't get to experience any of the success
or the harvest of the hard work that he put in
and the devotion to his art that he put in.
And, you know, he was faced with rejection all of his life.
He never got to experience people going,
"Yes, you, you did it. Thank you."
So now, you know, through this film,
we are trying to give him his flowers
in the spirit realm, you know.
Because this is really all him.
He guided the ship on this,
through Lin, used me as the channel.
He was running the show in unseen ways
that were quite mystical and remarkable.
- The film talks about how many of our professional
or personal decisions are motivated
sometimes by fear or love, or some combination of both.
I feel like we've all been there.
We've made different decisions in our lives
based on either of those or both of those things.
When you look at your own career,
do you see yourself making more decisions
based on one or the other?
Have you ever made a career decision based on fear?
- Very rarely. I'm happy to say it's mostly love.
I can really sincerely say that.
There's maybe a couple of moments
that were based on a little bit of fear
and they didn't go well.
I'm not gonna say what they are,
but they didn't go well for me personally.
They may have been great films or great plays,
but I didn't have a great time.
It didn't feel in line with who I was.
And I think it's very, very clear when you can feel,
whether you're on your own pathless path or not.
It's quite an acute feeling,
especially when you're mostly living out
of that place of love, yeah.
- Stephen Sondheim kind of looms large in this
for John Larson as this almost deity in his life.
And for any musical theater lover, he is.
And his validation means so much to him.
It kind of gives him what he needs at that time.
I'm curious,
was there a person like that for you early on?
Was there a phone call, someone you met,
that kind of gave you the juice,
the motivation that you needed
to kind of keep going early in your career?
- Oh yeah, definitely.
And I think it's a vital aspect,
a vital part of becoming who we are, for any of us,
that we have moments of mentorship.
That is absolutely embedded in the psyche.
We need someone, outside of our family system usually,
who can see us clearer, who doesn't have expectation of us,
who doesn't need us to be anything for their own benefit,
like, you know, treating you like an appendage
or like an extra limb that somehow represents them.
You need someone, at least at one point,
to see you deeply and clearly, objectively.
It could be a stranger on the street.
It could be, you know, a teacher, it could be whatever.
It's just to say, "Hey, I see you.
I think maybe you should go this way
because there's something there for you."
And I've been personally very, very lucky
to have that a few times.
My mother sent me on a path, actually,
she was one of the first people
that suggested to look at something creative,
and it was coming out of a very lost period of my life,
when I was in my teenage years and I was skateboarding,
but then I broke my wrist.
And I wasn't interested in academia.
I stopped being an athlete.
And my mother kind of told me to look at creativity
and I started doing plays,
and it felt fun, I really loved it,
but I didn't think anything more of it.
But then, this teacher showed up at my high school
and it was a new drama teacher.
And he just happened to show up when I was about to decide
what I was going to specialize in
my last two years of high school.
And I was doing a school play,
I just happened to be doing a school play.
And he just happened to be seeing.
And he came up to me afterwards and he said,
"Hi, I'm Phil Tong.
I'm the new drama teacher here at school.
And I'm looking for people to sign up
for the A-level course next year,
and I really believe you should do it with me,
because you're very talented
and you have something to offer here."
And I was like a dog with a bone.
It was like water in the desert.
I was like, "Tell me who I am. I need to know
where I'm going."
And I followed him. And I did it.
And that was the beginning.
And then from then, I've had multiple moments
that have given me encouragement
and kept me on the straight and narrow.
Maybe the most profound person that became a mentor
was Mike Nichols.
I'm so happy that I get to say that,
that I get to say that he was someone
that kind of offered me his guidance and wisdom,
as he did for so many people in his later years.
It was a great privilege to have that with him.
- You know, a lot of this film is built around
this workshop that Jonathan Larson is working towards,
and he's putting all of his hopes and dreams
on what's gonna happen here.
Again, just relating to your own career, I'm curious,
was there an audition that at the time felt like,
"This is it.
I go left or right in the road based on this audition."
- Yeah, there actually was,
but it was an audition for a film that never got made.
But it's something that's set the course
for the rest of my career.
It's so funny how it worked.
I was doing a play in London.
Three plays actually, four plays,
at the National Theatre in rep with each other.
And Stephen Daldry's assistant had come to see the plays.
And she had said to Stephen Daldry,
"Hey, there's a young man,
and you should go and watch his work."
And Stephen was working on casting a film at that time.
So Stephen comes to see the play,
and he asked to see me afterwards,
and we go for a walk on the South Bank and he says,
"So I'm putting together a screen test
for a film adaptation of a Michael Chabon book,
'The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay.'
- Right, still hasn't been made.
They've been trying for decades.
- And I was like, "I love Michael Chabon.
I haven't read this book."
And I immediately picked it up.
He was like, "I would love you to come and screen test."
It was my first time on camera.
And it was a two-day screen test.
And then it was like a bunch of young men
that were reading together for the two cousins.
And suddenly I'm on set with Cillian Murphy
and Ryan Gosling and Jason Schwartzman
and Ben Whishaw and Jamie Bell.
And I'm a theater kid.
And I'm with all these people that I look up to so much.
And you know, all these different pairings,
we worked with each other.
I remember everyone was just incredible.
But there's something about Ryan Gosling that just got me,
the way he worked and his spontaneity
and his presence, and he was alive.
He was an animal. He was amazing.
And anyway,
Avy Kaufman was the casting director of this film.
And she ended up casting me in my first movie.
This one never got made, but then I went and did
the Robert Redford movie 'Lions for Lambs'
that she brought me in but she was really pushing me for.
So without her eyes and you know,
everything leads to the next.
And that was the moment, and I could feel it,
I could feel going into it. I was like,
"This could be a step towards
what I want my life to be actually."
And I maybe hadn't dared to dream consciously
that I would ever make movies, to be honest.
You know, I felt lucky enough that I was doing
incredible plays in London and in Manchester,
and you know, around the U.K.
I thought, "This is a wonderful life."
But then, once you open the door and you go,
"Oh my god, this is a spectacular room.
And I wonder if I could ever have
the opportunity to do this."
And then, you know, here we are.
And I can't quite believe
how my life has unfolded to be honest.
- Amazing, amazing story.
I'm gonna preface this the same way I prefaced
the last time I brought up Spider-Man.
I'm not asking you
if you're in the new Spider-Man film, Andrew.
I'm not.
For the record, the last time we talked,
if you go back to the tape,
I didn't even ask you if you were in Spider-Man.
I don't know how to bring up the Spider-Man stuff,
'cause obviously I don't even want to like ruin anything,
if there is something to ruin, except -
- There isn't anything to ruin, bro.
I have to just quickly just cut you off.
I feel like I'm in a game of (beep) Werewolf or Mafia,
where I'm like, "I'm not the werewolf."
I promise you, I am not the werewolf.
And everyone's like, "You're the werewolf,
you're the (beep) werewolf, look at him."
Did I seem defensive?
- I'm just saying.
I'm not saying anything. I'm not saying anything.
- Good. Me neither.
[Laughing]
- Yeah.
Were you amused, though, by the reaction to your
enthusiastic denial of said proceedings.
- I think it's hilarious.
And I think it's great that, you know,
this character means so much to so many people.
It means so much to me, as well.
Like, to be a part of the culture in that way.
You know, I'm as excited as everyone,
to see what they do in this third film.
Like, it's a weird thing, man.
Like, I found it so charming and fun and like, yeah,
like, I would be guessing, too. That's the terrible thing.
It's like, oh my god, of course.
Like, I would be like, "Oh my god."
You know, like a dog with a bone.
But for me, like, I look back on my tenure
and I'm just so happy.
It's weird.
Like, the more distance I get, the more joyful I am,
and pure and how I look back.
And I'm just like,
"Oh my god, I got to play my childhood hero,
and I got to do with Emma [Stone]
and I got to do it with Sally Field,
and Martin Sheen and Amy Pascal."
And, you know, I was just so proud of it.
And now with what Tom [Holland] has done
and with what John Watts and Amy [Pascal] and Kevin Feige have done.
They've led it with soul.
It's just so injected with so much soul
and humor and heart and goodness.
That essence of Spider-Man, the goodness.
And Tom, it just pours out of every pore in his being.
And I'm genuinely excited to see
how they round off their trilogy and see what they do.
- I don't know if it's the lighting there
or something but
you kind of look like a werewolf to me today.
- Oh really?
A werewolf? - Yeah, it's weird.
Yeah, yeah.
- Hairier than usual? What's the -
- Well, no. I don't know.
Last time you referenced werewolves
and feeling like a werewolf in a game,
and just today, you look like a werewolf to me.
- I look like a werewolf?
I feel like you're being a bit provocative, Josh,
[Laughs] and I'm not crazy about it.
I'm gonna tell you that.
- Sorry, OK, let's go back to square one.
Here's a provocative question for you.
Greater piece of Pop Art:
'RuPaul's Drag Race' or 'Hamilton'?
- Oh, no, don't. Nope.
I refuse.
I refuse to answer.
Nope.
Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it.
Not gonna do it, Josh. - I told you it was provocative.
I told you.
- That is more provocative than accusing me of being a werewolf.
- By the way, I'm not the werewolf.
I just want to set the record straight.
I'm not the werewolf in the village.
- OK.
- No, you can't just go, "OK."
[Laughs] You were like, "You look like a werewolf."
and then go like, "OK!"
Like, all innocent. You know what you're doing, Josh.
- I do know what I'm doing.
Are you keeping up with 'Drag Race'?
Who you're rooting for, what's going on?
I've only just started the most recent 'All Stars' season,
so don't tell me. I'm playing catch-up,
cause' I've been shooting in Calgary.
So I haven't had a lot of time to watch.
And U.K. 'Drag Race' Season 3, I hear, is incredible.
I haven't started that yet, but, yeah, I'm on it.
I'm trying to play catch-up.
So I can't really talk about it now.
I don't want you to spoil anything.
- Totally.
Let's go full-circle.
We started this by talking about
how you're drawn to these roles
that just are insane challenges.
Is there another type of role or mountain
that you're itching to climb?
Like, something that you haven't gotten to explore,
that would necessitate the kind of time and effort
that something like this did?
- I'm sure. I'm sure there is.
I don't know what it is right now. It's a weird thing, man.
I'm in a weird place where I feel so grateful,
like overwhelmingly grateful
for the stuff I've been allowed to do
with my creative life, you know.
There's a direct line from 'Angels in America'
to 'Tick, Tick... Boom!' for me,
in terms of that they're married somehow,
there's a real relationship there
between Prior Walter and Jonathan Larson.
You know, it's the same era, it's the same context,
the same struggles and the same longing to live fully
and to enable others to do the same
and to be an advocate for life and for the sanctity of life.
So, I'm just full of gratitude at this moment.
And it's hard for me to know what the next dream is.
I'm excited for it to reveal itself.