some farmers say that it is it isn't
cruel that it is it's a huge leap to
suggest that all farming is cruel do you
feel like farmers and people in these
industries are
wolfing
willingly shutting their eyes
blinded by culture
or do you feel like our whole species
really just suffers some kind of sort of
collective denial when it comes to the
reality because why do you think there's
just so much sort of denial to the
reality of what's going on
i think because accepting it
means that we have to change you know
accepting it's not only that we have to
change but that we then have to reflect
on the fact that the way we've always
lived has caused all this suffering and
and was never moral you know for us
especially now in the context of the
society that we're in at least obviously
different in the past and we had to to
survive you know eat meat but now we
don't have to so not only would that
realization mean that we have to change
but it causes us to reflect on who we
are as people are we moral we know who
are we what do we represent what are our
values because that's the thing about
going vegan is it it opens our eyes up
to the prospect that we haven't
necessarily been as moral as we'd like
to have been and that can open our eyes
to other systems of oppression other
things that we partake in that maybe we
shouldn't be partaking in so it's a
catalyst for change beyond just what we
do to animals at least hopefully it
should be
i think that
farmers are an interesting section of
society
because farmers are very insular you
know for most of us being raised in
cities we'll have multiple social groups
we'll probably go to university in a
different city and interact in different
ways and we'll you know being in cities
there's a diversity hopefully that comes
with that a difference of opinion but
farmers because they live in more rural
areas
their social groups are more isolated
they have less capacity to be around
people that disagree with them and of
course farming is a
an ancestral thing you know not many
people getting to farming for the first
time right you know people who are
farmers now their parents are probably
farmers their grandparents are probably
farmers maybe their
great-great-grandparents were farmers as
well so there's this whole lineage there
so not only does that come with the
consistent perpetuation and
normalization of these ideas but at the
same time it also comes with a huge
amount of pressure you know am i going
to be the one to say i'm no longer going
to be part of this thing that's been
part of my entire family tree a bit like
abdicating from the royal family exactly
and and now that doesn't come without
consequences as well right so there is
this i think huge amount of pressure
that that is put on farmers as
individuals you know shame and guilt and
then on top of that if they were to even
think for a second that what they were
doing was so immoral which it is now
they've got so much pressure so there is
this willful ignorance that undeniably
must occur
you know we say that we're against
animal cruelty
and if you ask someone to name an
example of animal cruelty they'll say i
don't know like kicking a dog right or
punching a cat which is undeniably cruel
but if our criteria for animal cruelty
is as simple as kicking a dog then what
does forcing billions of pigs in a gas
chamber constitute you know if it's
cruel to hit one cat then how is it not
cruel to cut the throats of billions of
cows and cattle and sheep and chickens
and fish and all these other animals so
we do have this inherent paradox between
how we view our relationship with
animals and what our relationship
actually is i mean ironically there's
this huge disparity where as a society
we probably think that animals deserve
more moral consideration than we ever
have at any point in our history and yet
currently we cause more suffering to
animals than we ever have at any point
in our history so the attitudes of how
we feel towards animals and the reality
of what we do are becoming more and more
opposite and paradoxical because we
think we're becoming more compassionate
but the globalization and
intensification of animal farming and
the growing intensification means that
actually we're causing more suffering
than we ever have so there is undeniably
a paradox that needs to be addressed
of all the sort of many interviews that
you've had and all the farmers that
you've spoken to have your views and
attitudes towards these people evolved
over the years
yes um
i used to think that all farmers were
probably these evil people these bad
people but i think there's a difference
between the everyday farmer you know
someone who as i said has been raised in
these families this this tradition this
history for
you know all of their life and and lives
beyond them and then the people who are
propagating this this misinformation so
these people who are at the top of the
nfu and the ahdb who are responsible for
perpetuating these lies who are using
money from the meat industry to fund
studies that then that they then
disseminate using their pr teams you
know these people are doing a disservice
to the farming community that they're
supposed to represent because they're
feeding them with these lies that are
making them feel more
solidified in their views
what's happened i suppose is there's
this idea that vegans and farmers can't
coexist or get along well actually what
we need is the recognition that vegans
and farmers can work together to create
a better system now i think the everyday
farmer
would like i'd like to hope at least
would think that what they're doing is
sustainable and ethical which gives me
the idea that they want a sustainable
and ethical farming system so now what
we need is an honest conversation about
why what they do isn't sustainable or
ethical and then how can we create
something that is actually sustainable
and ethical but the problem is these
farmers who have these views entrenched
to them with all the baggage that we've
just discussed have been perpet or
having these lies perpetuated to them by
the people who are representing them
these unions and these levy boards that
they fund and so
that's i think where the the evilness of
the farming industry comes into play you
know these people who have positions of
authority and power who should know
better and do and do know better you
know the heads of the nfu know that
rainforests in south america are not
being destroyed for soy milk and tofu
but have been destroyed to feed the
chickens and pigs and dairy cows they
know that but they're more than happy to
go to the press and say with a straight
face our vegans are destroying the
rainforests they're avocados
and they know better because these
aren't unintelligent people quite the
opposite they're intelligent people who
are using their intelligence to
manipulate people in a way that isn't
fair in a way that is propagating lies
in in a way that is holding us back from
actually creating what would truly be an
ethical and sustainable food system
you