the 255 from Manchester journey time to
London two hours and eight minutes but
fast-forward 20 years when hs2 will in
theory be a reality building interest to
freeze a colossal amount of space and
will have faster journeys increased
capacity and more trains but will some
of the planned routes only get some of
the plan at a time when the North's
being promised investments
infrastructure and as the Prime Minister
says things being levelled up it seems a
chest tube north of Birmingham might be
paused to allow some rethinking
prompting a furious response from those
insisting it can't be axed halfway it's
the same old story isn't it that we have
a gold-plated railway between London and
Birmingham but oh when it gets to
further north or where we can't have
high speed we'll have to have
conventional lines you know that's why
we've got the chaos that we've got today
that the north has never had the
investment that it needs and now it
looks as though that could be about to
be repeated is there not an argument
though for saying okay fine HS too
long-winded costing more money than we
ever anticipated let's actually get on
with the work that needs doing in the
north now there is an argument for that
and I would certainly support that and
I'm not against actually some of the
costs of hs2 being brought down but make
those savings all the way down the line
south of Birmingham into London in the
southeast as well why have this
different approach to the investment
north of Birmingham again it's like
we'll get a second class service back at
the beginning thirty four billion was
the price tag for a chest tube by last
year with work underway it had more than
doubled today it seems perhaps a hundred
and six billion pounds that figure
apparently from the official review of
hs2 it's not yet been published but
parts of it have been wisely leaked and
as the prices kept going up so is the
level of skepticism from some about its
value whether or not it can actually
benefit people traveling where they need
to be
my main concern is it's gonna drag all
the prosperity and jobs and economy back
into London I think it's gonna make any
difference to anybody really if they
were if they were creating high-speed
rail that also tackled the cost
situation then I think that would get
people out the cars and it would
encourage people to use public transport
more ridiculous numbers we don't really
don't need it we don't whoever signs off
needs needs ostracizing and and you know
we we can't have it what we really needs
better connectivity better local bus
services better train services better
cross Pennine services that's what we
need to kick-start the economy and what
we need we need it now and that company
is not a project let's go take 20 years
to build the Department for Transport
says it's had a draft of the Oh kuvira
port since just before Christmas and a
final decision will be made shortly
what's for sure is that hs2 is divisive
whatever is decided won't be what some
want I'm joined now via the internet by
Andrew sentence a member of the OCO V R
apparel which completed its review of
the HS 2 project late last year andrew
sentence what what is the true status of
this report you will you lot worked so
hard on well my understanding is that it
was submitted to the government in late
October early November the final sort of
say-so of what was in the report was
right determined by the German dunno
Cathy I need to be with this at all
because it brought us you had a cough
have a good girlfriend and let's let's
get it out okay that stuff don't worry
he he he was the final author of the
report but in the final drafts I saw my
understanding was it was submitted to
the government late October early
November well what's going on then why I
mean do you but what's your sense of
what's going on do you think you you
said something the government didn't
like or they liked it so much they won't
address it
well you have to ask the government
about that they're not talkative tonight
sorry about all the coffee all right
there's a bit of a bug going around in
this part of the world I think it's a
very political politically controversial
project and various people in
governments are spinning it in different
ways and I think that's what we're
seeing portrayed into the press I think
the best outcome would be that the
report is properly published which was
my understanding that would happen by
the end of last year you know we're now
into January and there's not much
indication that the report will be
published quite soon thank you very much
because I think you've given us sense
what the situation is and thanks for
braving it through the through the ether
thanks a lot all the very very thank you
well we're joined now from Westminster
by the Labour peer and one of the
architects of the HST project Lord
adonus do you feel this is slipping away
now I mean you think the government's
laying the groundwork for killing it off
well there's clearly a massive argument
going on inside the Conservative Party
that's what's basically happening at the
moment
and that was a license by Boris Johnson
because what he did by appointing this
review before the general election was
to give both sides the impression that
he might come down on their side so he
appointed doug oqv to chariots
who is his infrastructure advisor as
mayor of London and who I'm confident
because he's very sensible
infrastructure is seasoned and knows
what the requirements are that he will
be recommending strongly in favor of hs2
continuing but he also put known
opponents of HS 2 on the same review
group who as you say have been briefing
strongly against HS 2 now these chickens
are coming home to roost now you can't
continually say that you back both the
opponents and the proponents of HST
you've got to come down on one side what
concerns me is that this is cast in
terms of whether or not a Chester is
going to be allowed to go ahead but in
fact it is going ahead at the moment 9
billion pounds have been spent on HS to
2,000 people are working on the project
but there's a company I made that clear
it's not the whole point about is they
haven't made sufficiently clear and it's
very important that people understand
that we're not talking about not
proceeding with HST we'd be talking
about midway through the construction of
the biggest infrastructure project in
Europe we'd be talking about pulling the
plug and to cancel 9 billion pounds
worth of investment through thousands of
people into unemployment and to leave no
infrastructure plan at all for linking
the major conurbations of this country
would be I mean one of the most
extraordinary things that would be
possible to imagine a new government
doing which is particularly one that's
trying to give a new economic plan to
the Midlands and the north but this is
political at the end of the day isn't it
and if the government feels that it
would be better off spending billions of
pounds on specific roads in specific
areas you know that may or may not help
its desire to spend money on places that
have recently voted conservative then
why shouldn't it do it well of course
the government can act as it sees fit if
we can get parliamentary consent though
I should note that Parliament has twice
over the last 10 years considered
legislation for hs2 when it's gone
through all the arguments we've had a
full parliamentary process including an
analysis of the economic and the
transport infrastructure case reaches 2
and on both occasions the House of
Commons voted by majorities of 10 to 1
in favor of HS 2 so any objective
analysis of the case would I'm
absolutely confident lead to it
continuing but on your links about
whether the the money could be diverted
you know you had won a toy MP on your
earlier report saying it would be great
if we could have quick action on roads
and railways I mean this is absolute pie
in the sky the idea you could cancel hs2
and then suddenly pull down off the
shelf
fifteen other schemes none of which are
prepared none of which have got planning
consent none of which have got business
cases attached is totally for the birds
if HS to his cancer what would actually
happen
is an infrastructure drought we bring in
the Midlands and the north and that
would be a terrible thing I do
conservative MP who I think wants to do
pretty much that which is the council
HST which goes through his constituency
I'm sure that's just a coincidence isn't
it
Greg Smith thank you for joining us
Andrew Jonas there it's just telling us
that you know your proposals which were
actually to drop HS to and build lots of
other projects is pie in the skies for
the birds
III don't agree with that at all we've
seen in reports that have come out
whether it's Lord Barclays review or the
leak that's come out today a cost tag of
in excess of a hundred billion pounds
for this scheme and Lord Barclays was
clear that actually on his calculations
will only get 60 P back for every pound
spent and that is not a responsible
thing to do and when I talked to some of
my new colleagues it particular in the
north of England but in the Midlands as
well what they're crying out for is
better connectivity east-west in the
north of England and better local
commuter routes on road and rail in and
around their areas and likewise in my
own constituency Buckingham which would
be devastated already is being
devastated by some of the enabling works
of HS - what we really want are things
like east-west rail delivered which will
help ease some of the congestion on the
east coast on the West Coast Main Line
by ensuring that people can move from
Milton Keynes to pista and intersect
with the Chilton line so what do you say
to those people who say you're just a
NIMBY not in my backyard well I would
invite anyone to come down and see what
is happening in the Buckingham
constituency right now yeah in the
enabling works alone we've seen 500
acres of vegetation in steeple clayton
ripped out ancient woodlands people's
farms torn into people's homes taken
away for them which which incidentally a
lot of people in my constituency that
have had property taken away are yet to
receive a pound for it HS - limited have
the
disgracefully over this not least when
they turned up at the Calvert Jubilee
Nature Reserve with their chainsaws land
that due to a mapping error they
shouldn't have even been on in the first
place so this isn't a case of NIMBYism
this is a case of saying look at the
devastation this will cause not just in
my constituency but along the whole
route and then look at the price tag and
what we'll actually get back on this
investment you've really got to think
twice about this scheme and actually
deliver smaller better projects like
east-west rail and like the northern
powerhouse rail that will really improve
people's lives let me put that back to
Lord of donors when I was the secretary
state for transports who launched
east-west rail the projects in that the
MP for Buckingham has just mentioned so
these aren't either/or it's not the case
that to do smaller scale improvements
you therefore cancel the big scheme and
I think most people understand that we
obviously need local schemes which are
successful and I'm a great believer in
the east-west rail project that links
Oxford Vista and Milton Keynes but we
also need to have modern infrastructure
green infrastructure that can deal with
the huge demands we've got for transport
in our major conurbations London
Birmingham Manchester Leeds now of
course a huge new regret that that
there's disruption which is inevitably
caused by building a new railway but if
you don't make any investments in the
infrastructure of the future what you do
is you turn the country backwards and
you don't make it possible for us to
meet the challenges of the future and
that's precisely why we're proceeding
with a Chester we must leave it there
thank you very much Greg Smith thank you
very much indeed for joining us
so to another great national project
under pressure
the BBC Tony Hall has announced he'll
step down as director general this
summer 'lord Hall who took up the post
in 2013 said he believed he was leaving
the BBC in a much stronger place than
when I joined though critics point to
ongoing diversity issues and the gender
pay gap rah so with a licence review on
the horizon the Prime Minister
signalling a rethink of the BBC licence
fee how big are the challenges facing
his successor here's our political
correspondent Paul McNamara