>> Stephen: HEY, WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY!
MY NEXT GUEST IS THE PULITZER PRIZE WINNING EXPERT ON THE
ROOSEVELTS, L.B.J., AND LINCOLN.
HER NEW BOOK IS "LEADERSHIP: IN TURBULENT TIMES."
PLEASE WELCOME, OUR FRIEND, DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( BAND PLAYING )
>> Stephen: NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN, DORIS.
>> YOU, TOO.
>> Stephen: WELL, YOU HAVE WRITTEN SO MANY BOOKS ABOUT
LYNDON JOHNSON AND THE AMERICAN DREAM, THE FITZGERALD, THE
KENNEDYS, THE TREATMENT OF RIVALS, ABOUT LINCOLN, ABOUT THE
BULLY PULPIT WHICH IS ABOUT T.R.
NOW YOU HAVE A BOOK CALLED "LEADERSHIP: IN TURBULENT
TIMES," WHICH IS ABOUT LINCOLN, T.R., F.D.R. AND L.B.J.
YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO DO ANY RESEARCH, RIGHT?
YOU JUST SAT DOWN AT THE TYPE WRITER AND STARTED SLAPPING THIS
STUFF OUT.
>> I KNEW YOU WOULD TEASE ME.
EACH TIME I FINISHED A FAT BOOK, LIKE TEDDY OR FRANKLIN, I HAD TO
PUT AWAY BOOKS FOR THAT GUY AND GO TO THE NEXT AND I FELT LIKE I
WAS LEAVING AN OLD BOYFRIEND AND FELT GUILTY.
>> Stephen: THAT COULD LEAD TO A BAR FIGHT.
>> IT DOES SOMETIMES, BUT THAT MAKES IT FUN, I GET TO WATCH IT.
THE TRUTH IS BY LOOKING AT THEM THROUGH LEADERSHIP, BEFORE I I
WAS LOOKING AT THEIR COLLEAGUES, FAMILIES, EVERYTHING GOING ON IN
THESE BIG FAT BOOKS, NOW I'M JUST LOOKING AT IT THROUGH
LEADERSHIP.
IT'S MUCH MORE INTIMATE.
WHERE DID YOUR AMBITION COME FROM.
I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THAT ABOUT YOU, ANYBODY HERE.
>> Stephen: I'LL ASK THE QUESTIONS.
( LAUGHTER ) BEFORE YOU WROTE BIOGRAPHIES.
THIS IS THE FIRST BOOK ABOUT AN IDEA.
>> RIGHT.
>> Stephen: WHY DID YOU FEEL NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME TO TALK
ABOUT THE CHALLENGE OF LEADERSHIP IN TURBULENT TIMES?
>> BECAUSE I SORT OF FELT THERE WAS AN ABSENCE IN LEADERSHIP IN
TURBULENT TIMES.
>> Stephen: OH, REALLY?
AND MY GUYS -- >> Stephen: YEP?
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> -- JUST LISTEN TO THE
QUALITIES THEY HAVE AND SEE IF IT REFLECTS TODAY -- HUMILITY,
EMPATHY, RESILIENCE WHEN YOU GO THROUGH TOUGH TIMES, BEING ABLE
TO CONTROL YOUR NEGATIVE EMOTIONS, SELF-REFLECTION,
COURAGE, THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: DO YOU THINK THOSE
ARE -- DO YOU THINK ANY OF THOSE TRAITS, HOW DO I SAY THIS -- DO
YOU THINK WHICH OF THOSE THAT TRUMP COULD USE MOST RIGHT NOW
TO DEAL WITH THE TURBULENT TIMES WE'RE IN?
I MEAN, HE IS PART OF THE TURBULENCE HIMSELF IS PART OF
THE CHALLENGE.
>> I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT TRAIT THAT THE GUYS SHARED AT
THEIR BEST MOMENT WAS EMPATHY, WHICH MEANS YOU UNDERSTAND OTHER
PEOPLE, YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE FEELING, AND YOU'RE ABLE
TO COMMUNICATE.
THERE ARE DIFFERENT PARTS TO HAVE THE COUNTRY TOGETHER.
TEDDY ROOSEVELT WARNED THE ROCK OF DEMOCRACY WOULD FAIL IF
PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT REGIONS, RACES AND RELIGIONS WOULD BEGIN
TO SEE THEMSELVES AS EACH OTHER.
THAT WAS PRE-TRUMP.
WE NEED A PRESIDENT THAT CAN HEAL THOSE DIVISIONS.
TEDDY USED TO GO ON A TRAIN IN ALL THE PLACES HE LOST AS WELL
AS THE PLACES HE WON, NOT JUST GETTING HIS BASE GOING.
WE NEED THAT KIND OF LEADER SO BADLY TODAY, SO I WANTED THESE
GUYS TO COME BACK.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: AS YOU SAID, YOU
KNOW, THESE GUYS ARE LIKE YOUR OLD BOYFRIENDS.
YOU'VE WRITTEN, YOU'VE HAD SORT OF INTIMATE RELATIONSHIPS WITH
EACH OF THEM AS YOU'VE WRITTEN BIOGRAPHIES ABOUT THEM.
WHO'S YOUR FAVORITE?
>> WELL, LINCOLN WITHOUT A QUESTION.
( APPLAUSE ) I MEAN, I SORT OF FELL IN LOVE
WITH HIM.
I FELT LIKE, IF I UNDERSTOOD HIM, HE WAS THE KIND OF
PERSON -- HE HAD RESENTMENTS, NORMAL THINGS, HE HAD ENVY,
AMBITION, GELSY, BUT HE SAID IF YOU ALLOW THOSE EMOTIONS TO
FESTER, THEY'LL POISON A PART OF YOU.
EVERY TIME ONE OF THOSE EMOTIONS COMES OUT IN ME, I WOULD SAY,
LINCOLN WOULD SAY STOVMENT HE WAS FUNNY.
I KNEW I WOULD LIKE HIM AS A STATESMAN, BUT I HAD NO IDEA HOW
FUNNY I WOULD BE AND I WOULD BE LAUGHING BY HIS SIDE.
>> Stephen: IF YOU HAD TO BE ONE OF THEM BACK TO CHALLENGE
PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHO WOULD IT BE?
>> IT WOULD BE TEDDY ROOSEVELT, SIR.
THE REASON BEING THAT YOU NEED SOMEBODY WHO CAN COMMAND THE
CENTER OF ATTENTION.
TEDDY COULD DO THAT ABSOLUTELY.
HE WAS THE PERSON WHO THEY SAID WANTED TO BE THE BABY AT THE
BAPTISM, THE BRIDE AT THE WEDDING AND THE CORPSE AT THE
FUNERAL.
HE WAS COLORFUL THAT WAY.
HE HAD SHORT STATEMENTS.
HE WOULD BE GREAT AT TWEETS.
HE WOULD SAY THINGS LIKE SPEAK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG STICK,
DON'T HIT UNTIL YOU HAVE TO AND THEN HIT HARD.
AND HE GAVE MAXWELL HOUSE THE SLOGAN GOOD TO THE VERY LAST
DROP.
>> Stephen: THAT'S FROM TEDDY ROOSEVELT?
>> ONE OF THE GUYS I WAS INTIMATE WITH!
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: ONE OF THEM YOU
ACTUALLY KNEW QUITE WELL.
THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF YOU, YOU WERE WORKING FOR L.B.J., YOU'RE
AT THE PODIUM, THERE'S YOU NEXT TO LADY BIRD, THIS IS IN 1968.
HOW OLD ARE YOU HERE?
>> 25.
>> Stephen: YOU'RE 25 YEARS OLD.
YOU SEEM TO BE HAVING A HIGH OLD TIME, LIKELY ENJOYING.
( APPLAUSE ) AND HE JUST SAID SOMETHING
FUNNY?
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
>> THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS AFTER I'M ALREADY WORKING FOR HIM IN THE
WHITE HOUSE AND WE'RE PRESENT AGO REPORT TO HIM ABOUT YOUTH
PARTICIPATION.
>> Stephen: YES.
BUT PRIOR TO THAT, I HAD MET HIM A YEAR BEFORE WHEN I BECAME
A WHITE HOUSE FELLOW, THIS GREAT PROGRAM, WE HAD A DANCE AT THE
WHITE HOUSE.
HE DID DANCE WITH ME.
NOT THAT PECULIAR, THERE ARE ONLY THREE WOMEN OUT OF THE 16
US WHO FELLOWS.
AS HE TWIRLED ME AROUND THE FLOOR, HE SAID HE WANTED ME TO
BE ASSIGNED DIRECTLY TO HIM AT THE WHITE HOUSE.
IT WASN'T THAT SIMPLE.
I WAS A GRADUATE FROM HARVARD, ACTIVE IN THE ANTI-VIETNAM WAR
MOVEMENT, HAD WRITTEN AN ARTICLE AFTER HIM WHICH UNFORTUNATELY
CAME OUT TWO DAYS AFTER THE DANCE AND THE TITLE WAS "HOW TO
REMOVE LYNDON JOHNSON FROM POWER."
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: HE MUST HAVE READ
THAT ARTICLE.
>> AFTER I WAS ALREADY IN THE WHITE HOUSE, AFTER WE DANCED AND
HE SAID I WAS GOING TO WORK FOR HIM.
SO I THOUGHT I WOULD BE KICKED OUT OF THE PROGRAM.
SURPRISINGLY, H HE SAID, OH, BRING HER DOWN HERE FOR A YEAR
AND IF I CAN'T WIN HER OVER, NO ONE CAN.
SO THAT WAS PRETTY COOL.
( APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: DID HE WIN YOU
OVER?
>> HE WON ME OVER.
NOT ON THE WAR, BUT ON HIMSELF.
HE WAS THE MOST INTERESTING, FORMIDABLE, INCREDIBLE CHARACTER
I'VE EVER MET.
HE WOULD CALL PEOPLE IN THE MORNING IN THE KONG AT
6:00 A.M., AT NOON, AND I WOULD BE THERE TO LISTEN.
HE WOULD CALL A SENATOR AT MIDNIGHT, 2:00 A.M.
HOPE I DIDN'T WAKE YOU UP.
NO, NO, I WAS LOOKING AT THE CEILING HOPING MY PRESIDENT
WOULD CALL.
( LAUGHTER ) IT WAS THE GREATEST EXPERIENCE.
IT WAS A PRIVILEGE TO WORK WITH THIS CHARACTER.
HE WAS SO SAD IN THIS MEMOIR.
HE WAS AT THE RANCH AND KNEW HIS LEGACY WAS CUT IN TWO BY THE WAR
ON VIETNAM, BUT WHAT HE DID ON CIVIL RIGHTS WILL BE REMEMBERED
FOREVER.
( APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: WELL, I CERTAINLY
DON'T WANT TO GET YOU IN ANY TROUBLE.
>> OH, YEAH.
>> Stephen: BUT ARE THERE ANY POLITICIANS YOU SEE TODAY
SERVING IN AN INTERNATIONAL OR LOCAL LEVEL THAT YOU THINK
EMBODY THE QUALITIES OF LEADERSHIP YOU SEE AS A
COMMONALITY FOR THESE FOUR MEN?
>> I DON'T KNOW AN INDIVIDUAL, BUT WHAT I'LL TELL YOU I THINK
IT WILL COME FROM, IT WILL COME FROM LOCAL AREAS, IT WILL COME
FROM STATES.
EVERY CHANGE IN THE COUNTRY COMES FROM THE ORDINARY CITIZENS
WHO GET ACTIVE.
AND THE THING THAT WAS MOST EXCITING TO ME ABOUT THE MIDTERM
ELECTIONS IS PEOPLE WERE AWAKENED.
MORE PEOPLE STOOD IN LINES THAN EVER BEFORE, MORE WOMEN RAN FOR
OFFICE THAN EVER BEFORE.
MORE YOUNG PEOPLE GOT EXCITED.
SO SOMEWHERE OUT THERE, RIFF CHANGE -- LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE,
LINCOLN WAS CALLED THE LIBERATOR.
HE SAID DON'T CALL ME THE LIBERATOR.
IT WAS THE CIVIL RIGHTS BEFORE TEDDY AND FRANKLIN AND BEFORE
L.B.J.
SO THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE AND WE'LL KNOW THEM IN THE NEXT
MONTHS AND YEARS AHEAD.
>> STEPHEN: "LEADERSHIP IN TURBULENT TIMES" IS AVAILABLE
NOW.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, EVERYBODY.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.