>> Stephen: WELCOME, WELCOME TO "THE LATE SHOW."
>> GREAT TO BE HERE.
HAVE A NEW JOB SINCE THE LAST TIME I SAW YOU.
>> Stephen: WHAT DID YOU SAY?
>> I HAVE A NEW JOB SINCE THE LAST TIME I SAW YOU.
>> Stephen: YOU WERE ON "THE COLBERT REPORT."
( APPLAUSE ) YOU WERE A DIRECTOR OF RUKS AND
EURASIAN AFFAIRS.
YOU WERE THE AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA FROM 2012 TO 2014.
>> CORRECT.
>> Stephen: AND MAYBE YOU COULD-- YOU WERE IN HELSINKI FOR
THE SUMMIT.
>> I WAS, YES.
>> Stephen: OKAY.
WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF IT, GENERALLY?
( LAUGHTER ) LET'S START GENERAL AND GET
SPECIFIC.
>> I WAS A FORMER DIPLOMAT, BUT IT WAS A DISASTER.
( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )
I MEAN THERE'S -- >> Stephen: THAT'S A
DIPLOMATIC-- I HAD-- I HAD MY OWN REACTION, AN UNINFORMED BUT
AMERICAN CITIZEN REACTION WITH THE PRESIDENT SIDE WAIG HOSTILE
FOREIGN LEADER AS OPPOSED TO OUR FOREIGN SERVICES DEFENDING THE
BEDROCK OF OUR DEMOCRACY.
BUT WHAT DID YOU SEE-- WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?
WHAT WAS THE BEST THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED?
>> SO MY EXPECTATIONS WERE VERY LOW.
LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
( LAUGHTER ) BY THE WAY, I THINK THE ENTIRE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S EXPECTATIONS WERE VERY LOW.
THESE GUYS HAD NOT MET AT A SUMMIT --
>> Stephen: MY UNDERSTANDING IS MOST MEMBERS OF HIS
ADMINISTRATION SAID, "DON'T DO THIS."
>> FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THAT'S TRUE.
BUT THE MESSAGE THAT THEY HAD FOR HIM GOING INTO THE MEETING
WAS TO BE TOUGH, TO PUSH BACK.
AND, REMEMBER, I'M NOT AGAINST SUMMITS WITH DICTATORS.
I'M NOT AGAINST MEETINGS WITH ADVERSARIES.
BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THEM, AS WE DID DURING THE COLD WAR, BY THE
WAY, WITH SOVIET LEADERS, YOUR JOB IS TO ADVANCE AMERICAN NASH
INTEREST.
IT'S NOT TO GET ALONG AND BE FRIENDLY WITH A GUY LIKE
VLADIMIR PUTIN.
>> Stephen: LET ME PLAY THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE FOR A
SECOND.
( APPLAUSE ) DONALD TRUMP SAID-- DONALD TRUMP
SAID THAT GUYS LIKE YOU AND THE PEOPLE WHO CRITICIZED HIM WANT
US TO GO TO WAR.
THEY'D LIKE TO SEE US GET INTO SOME SORT OF SHOOTING MATCH WITH
RUSSIA.
>> FIVE YEARS WITH BARACK OBAMA?
I WANT TO GO TO WAR?
GIVE ME A BREAK.
>> Stephen: TRUMP IS SAYING HE BRINGS US PEACE IN OUR TIME.
>> LET'S BE CLEAR-- THERE IS NO THREAT OF WAR WITH RUSSIA RIGHT
NOW.
THRUT BUTT THERE IS A THREAT OF RUSSIA INTERVENING IN OUR
ELECTION AS THEY DID IN 2016, WHICH OUR PRESIDENT WON'T ADMIT
TO.
THERE IS A THREAT OF THEM THREATENING THEIR NEIGHBOR.
THEY ANNEXED CRIMEA AND UKRAINE.
THEY ARE THREATENING OTHER COUNTRIES THERE.
AND WHEN YOU'RE THREATENING, WHEN YOU'RE BEING BELLIGERENT
ABROAD, YOU NEED TO PUSH BACK.
IT'S ONE WARD.
IT'S CALLED " CONCANEMENT."
I SAY WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO CONTAINMENT.
BECAUSE IT'S NECESSARY TO PUSH BACK ON VLADIMIR PUTIN, AND
TRAGICALLY, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S NOT WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP
DID IN HELSINKI.
>> Stephen: THE LATEST WE FOUND OUT IS THE PUTIN REGIME
HAS-- IN 2017-- FE PENETRATED OU ELECTRICAL GRIDS AND
COMMUNICATION NETWORKS AND COULD SHUT THEM DOWN-- OR
THEORETICALLY COULD SHUT THEM DOWN.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION-- AND AS
AMBASSADOR YOU MAY KNOW THIS-- THAT THEY HAD PENETRATED
RUSSIA'S ELECTRICAL GRID AND THEIR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS AND
THEY HAD A PLAN IN PLACE TO PULL THE TRIGGER AND SHUT THEM DOWN.
HAVE YOU READ ABOUT THAT?
DID YOU READ ABOUT THAT IN THE PAPER?
I'M NOT ASKING YOU-- NOT IN A CLASSIFIED-- I READ ABOUT IT
IN-- MY SOURCE WAS "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
>> OH, IS THAT RIGHT?
OKAY.
>> Stephen: HAVE YOU READ THAT PAPER.
>> I SHOULDN'T COMMENT.
>> Stephen: YOU SHOULDN'T COMMENT BUT YOU HEARD ABOUT
THAT, YES OR NO.
YOU HEARD THAT RUMOR.
>> LET'S JUST FUT THIS WAY: THE RUSSIANS HAVE TREMENDOUS CYBER
CAPABILITIES.
SO DO WE.
>> Stephen: OKAY.
WE WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE ELECTION,
AND THE RUSSIANS WANT TO KNOW THEIR OWN TRUTHS.
DONALD TRUMP DESCRIBED SOMETHING AS AN INCREDIBLE OFFER, WHERE
PUTIN WOULD ALLOW MUELLER'S TEAM TO GO OVER THERE AND WITNESS THE
RUSSIANS INTERROGATING THEIR OWN MEMBERS OF THE G.R.U., WHO
HACKED OUR ELECTION.
IN RETURN, THEY WOULD GET TO INTERROGATE SOME AMERICANS.
ONE OF THEM WAS YOU.
>> YES.
>> Stephen: WHEN DID YOU FIND OUT?
( LAUGHTER ) AND WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN
YOU FOUND OUT YOU WERE ON THAT EXCLUSIVE LITTLE LIST?
>> SO I WAS IN HELSINKI, LIKE YOU SAID, WORKING FOR ANOTHER
NETWORK EYE APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.
( LAUGHTER ) AND I WAS WATCHING IT LIVE.
AND REMEMBER, EVERYBODY WAS FOCUSED ON THE CRAZY THING THAT
TRUMP SAID-- PUTIN WAS STRONG AND SAYING HE DIDN'T DO IT.
AND THAT WAS THE NEWS.
BUT I WAS LISTENING TO THE WHOLE THING.
AND WHEN PUTIN FLOATED THAT LITTLE SCHEME, IT SOUNDED CRAZY
TO ME, RIGHT, BECAUSE HE WAS SUGGESTING THAT AMERICAN
INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS HELPED THIS BRITISH BUSINESSMAN, BILL
LOUDER, TO LAUNDER MONEY OUT OF RUSSIA AND THEN HELP THE CLINTON
CAMPAIGN.
THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
EVERYBODY BY THE WAY.
MOST PEOPLE WEREN'T LISTENING TO THAT PART.
I WAS.
I SAID THIS IS AN ABSOLUTELY CRAZY IDEA.
AND, BY THE WAY, THE NOTION THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO INTERVIEW
THEIR INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS.
THEY'RE GOING TO LIE TO OUR PEOPLE JUST LIKE VLADIMIR PUTIN
STOOD NEXT TO OUR PRESIDENT AND LIED IN HELSINKI.
SO THAT WAS AN EMPTY OFFER.
UNFORTUNATELY, OUR PRESIDENT SAID, "WELL, THAT'S A GREAT
IDEA.
WHAT A GENEROUS OFFER FROM PRESIDENT PUTIN."
>> Stephen: IT WAS GENEROUS.
IIT WAS GENEROUS.
I.
>> I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS A PART OF IT.
IT WAS ONLY WHEN I WAS FLYING BACK FROM THE PLANE FROM
HELSINKI-- I HAD WIFI.
AND RUSSIAN JOURNALISTS STARTED TO PING ME.
THEY SAID, "DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE BEING CONSIDERED AS A CRIMINAL,
WITH THIS GUY BILL LOUDER, TO LAUNDER MONEY OUT?"
>> Stephen: THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT.
THEY SAY YOU HELPED HIM LAUNDER THE MONEY.
>> ALLEGEDLY.
LET'S BE CLEAR, I DID NOT DO THAT.
NOBODY DID THAT.
LET'S BE A LITTLE STRONGER.
THIS IS CRAZY!
THIS IS CRAZY STUFF THATUT PINE WAS TALKING ABOUT!
>> Stephen: SO WANTING TO INTERROGATE OUR DIPLOMAT, THE
PRESIDENT SAYING THAT'S NOT A BAD IDEA.
HACKING THE ELECTRICAL, HACKING THE ELECTION.
ARE WE IN A NEW COLD WAR?
YOUR BOOK IS "FROM COLD WAR TO HOT PEACE."
ARE WE ON OUR WAY TO A HOT PEACE OR ARE WE IN A HOT PEACE RIGHT
NOW?
BECAUSE I REMEMBER THE COLD WAR.
>> WE'RE IN THE HOT PEACE.
>> AND USE THAT WORD TO ECHO IT'S LIKE THE COLD WAR AND IT'S
CONFRONTATIONAL.
SOME THINGS ARE DIFFERENT, AND SOME ARE BETTER AND SOME ARE
WORSE.
WE ARE NOT ON THE VERGE OF A NUCLEAR WAR WITH RUSSIA LIKE WE
WERE IN THE 1960s.
EVERYBODY SHOULD RELAX.
WE'RE NOT DOING THAT.
BUT THERE ARE ASPECTS OF WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY THAT ARE
DIFFERENT.
SO EVEN DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE COLD WAR, THE RUSSIANS DIDN'T
HACK OUR ELECTIONS, DIDN'T STEAL EMAILS AND PUBLISH THEM TO HELP
ONE CANDIDATE OR ANOTHER.
EVEN DURING THE COLD WAR, THEY DIDN'T ANNEX TERRITORY-- I MEAN,
THINK ABOUT THAT.
WE FOUGHT WORLD WAR II BECAUSE A COUNTRY STARTED ANNEXING
TERRITORY.
NOW WE'RE BACK TO THAT.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S SUCH A GREAT-- IT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE
COLD WAR, BUT TO SAY IT'S BETTER OR WORSE, I'M NOT SO SURE.
>> Stephen: YOU KNOW, IT'S A CHANGE OF PACE.
>> CHANGE OF PACE.
>> Stephen: THE BOOK IS "FROM COLD WAR TO HOT PEACE."
IT'S AVAILABLE NOW. AMBASSADOR MICHAEL MCFAUL, EVERYBODY.