♪ ♪
- Hello everyone, and
welcome to Boss Talks
a series featuring candid
career conversations
with people who are changing the game
in their respective industries.
For today's episode,
we're gonna do
things just a little differently,
we share a lot of tips
and tricks on Boss Talks
for how to build your career,
but I thought it would be
helpful to hear from folks
who are actively putting
these tools into practice.
Not everyone starts
out in their dream job,
but everyone starts somewhere.
So today is about honoring
where you are in your journey
and helping you identify
your next best steps to designing
a career that you absolutely love.
So without further ado,
I am so excited to
introduce my first guest.
Director of Product
Management at Salesforce,
Cheryl Feldman.
Cheryl, welcome to Boss Talks.
- Thank you so much, Ebony for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
- I couldn't be happier
to be chatting with you.
So Cheryl, before we dive in,
I want to give everyone an
opportunity to get to know you
just a little bit better,
because I still remember
the first time I heard your story,
and I remember just being so inspired.
So will you share a bit
about your background?
- Sure so currently I am a
Director of Product Management
here at Salesforce.
However, most people don't believe this
when I tell them this,
that I do not have a
background in technology at all.
I actually started my
career as a hairdresser,
but I was always super into technology.
I was always really interested in it
and I was always interested
in the next big thing.
From being a hairdresser,
I then went on to being a secretary
and I picked up very quickly
when somebody left the organization,
how to do analytics and how
to combine all sorts of data.
I wanted to be a
Salesforce admin so badly.
And so I walked into
a startup that I found
they had a posting on Craigslist,
and I could tell that they
were kind of debating
and I flat out, asked them,
what is your biggest
problem in Salesforce?
I bet I can solve it.
And I worked for free the next day
and figured out their
issues with Salesforce
and proved that I could do this job
just as well as anybody with a
master's in Computer Science.
- And I just want to
point out for everyone
again, just double clicking on this,
that you did all of this without a degree.
And I think that so many people
think that a four year degree
is the only way to achieve success,
but you are living proof
that there are so many different pathways.
And I just really admire
the grit and determination
you've brought to your career.
Now, sometimes people
know their current job
isn't working for them,
but they don't know exactly
what they want to pursue.
So what tips do you have
for people who want to
pursue a different career path?
- So my tips for choosing
a different career path
would be if you're not exactly
sure what you wanna do,
think about what you're passionate about,
think about what you could
do around your passions.
And if there's a specific career
that you're passionate about,
find somebody who's
doing that type of career now,
you can search for
things like this on LinkedIn,
or just do a Google search
and reach out to somebody.
And a lot of times I would
say 99% of those time,
folks are willing to have conversations
with people who are
interested in doing careers,
just like them.
- That's absolutely right
I wouldn't change a thing about
what you said, great advice.
Now I wanna switch gears
and talk about making an actionable plan.
So once you decide you're ready to move on
and you figured out where you wanna go,
what's your advice for
how to take that next step?
- So, first step is be intentional,
be intentional about
everything that you want to do.
I actually decided back in 2007
that I wanted to be a Product
Manager at Salesforce.
However, I didn't have
the exact right skills
to get there yet,
so I asked people doing that type of role,
what skills do I need?
And I started finding roles
in different organizations
that I could take on,
that would get me the skills
to get, where I wanted to go.
Step two would be mentorship.
And find somebody to mentor you
and somebody who's gonna
help you and hold you accountable.
That is the most important
thing a mentor will do
and they also can help you work on skills.
And then the third tip I would give
is to keep on checking in
with both yourself and your mentor,
and make sure that you still
want to be on the same path.
Because I also changed paths a little bit,
at one point I was
trying to be a developer
and I was thinking that
may be where I wanted to go,
and then I really
started thinking about it
and really Product Management
was where I really wanted to go,
but constantly have those
conversations with yourself.
- That's great, and you
know, sometimes Cheryl,
the hardest move can be the first move.
And because the fear can be really real.
I remember personally
when I was switching from IT
to a new role in
Philanthropy, I was terrified.
I thought I was making a huge mistake.
So what is the scariest
part of it for you?
And how did you overcome that fear?
- I think the scariest part
for anyone taking on anything new,
whether it's a new job,
moving to a new city, is the unknown.
And I think being able
to reduce the unknown
and I think also owning
your fear sometimes
and owning what is making you scared
and then listing those things out
and saying, okay, is this a rational fear?
Or is this me just getting in my head?
- Like you just said,
we sometimes can psych our own selves out.
We let the fear get the best of us
and we can even talk ourselves
out of trying something new.
So what tips do you have for that,
for reeling in that negative Self-talk?
- I would say surround
yourself with people
that believe in you.
I've done this, I call
it my circle of trust,
and I talk with these
people all of the time,
and I will tell them when
I'm not feeling confident
about something or
I'm scared or I'm afraid.
And when the opportunity came up
for me to potentially come
to Salesforce, I was scared.
I was afraid, what if I
don't do a good job?
And they were like,
you have all these skills,
you are so great at this,
you're amazing at this,
you're gonna be incredible at this.
But they're also be very honest with me
and tell me if I wasn't
going to be that great
or that incredible.
And so I think it's having
that core group of people
that you can rely on and help build you up
and make sure that you
have support along the way.
- I love that.
Now, Cheryl, let's talk
about the naysayers
because sometimes there
can be people in our lives
who tell us that we can't do something.
Did you encounter this?
And if so, how did you handle that?
- I had so many people in my career,
and my life telling me,
no you can't do this,
you won't be able to do this,
you don't fit the mold,
you don't have this,
you don't have that.
But I will tell you for
every single person
that says, no, there's
somebody willing to say yes.
So you may get rejected,
you may be told no,
there may be people out
there saying she won't do it,
he won't do it, they won't
be able to accomplish it.
If you believe you
can do it, you can do it.
It's just finding those people
that are gonna support you
and support your career.
- That's right, let those
haters be your motivators.
(Ebony laughing)
So Cheryl, you've gone from,
I love the term you used, also admin,
to now the Director of Product
Management at Salesforce.
It's so exciting to hear a little bit more
about your journey.
Now, though it is time
for our final question,
and my favorite question.
So are you ready?
- Yes.
- All right, I knew you would be.
Cheryl, what is your super power?
- I like to call myself
the master connector
of great people.
So my superpower is in networking
and I love talking to people,
I love meeting new people
and I love hearing about
other people's stories.
I love connecting people and
seeing them be successful.
- I love that, and it certainly
is your super power,
I've seen that in action.
So Cheryl, thank you so
much for joining us today
and sharing your story.
It's been such a joy just to
watch you grow in your career.
- Thank you so much for having me.
- And now we're gonna bring
in our second guest for today.
So please join me in giving a warm welcome
to Senior Consultant at
Slalom, Aaron McGriff.
Aaron, welcome to Boss Talks.
- Hi Ebony thank you for having me.
- Oh, it's so good to have you here.
Now, Aaron, you also have
an extremely inspiring story
and you've been so open and authentic
in sharing your experience.
So I'd love for you to share
some of that with us today.
Will you tell us a little bit
about your background?
- So I started working
in retail when I was 16.
I got my first job at Target,
it was just a job, so I can
have money in my pocket,
keep gas in my car, all that good stuff.
And I stayed there for my
last two years of high school.
After I graduated from high school,
they actually gave me a promotion.
And they throw more money at me.
So me college freshmen,
I'm making pretty good money,
I still have to take my classes
at the time I was actually
studying to be an engineer
and I kind of had a decision to make.
Do I want to take on this full
load of engineering classes
or I'm making pretty good money right now,
do I want to just continue
down the path I'm on?
And like a typical teenager,
not thinking things all the way through.
I went the route that
was giving me the money
right then and there,
and ended up doing that for over 10 years.
I spent 10 years at Target,
I spent two years at Home Depot
and after 12 years of that,
I knew that I had enough
and I wasn't living my
life on my own terms.
So I said that I'm
gonna get out of retail,
I'm gonna do something different.
Did not know what
that different thing was,
but I knew that there was
something better out there for me.
So I went towards it.
I ended up leaving Home Depot
and getting a job in
operational management.
So I'm getting to know my
job, I'm getting to know my team,
I had been there for about eight months
and literally out of the clear blue sky,
I got laid off one day.
During that time,
I learned about Salesforce
through a family member
who just so happened to be in town.
And I knew that I was gonna
give the Salesforce thing a try
and I got a job and I got more than a job,
I got a whole new lifestyle.
- Aaron, I know from my
own personal experience
that it can be very intimidating
to interview for new jobs
while you're unemployed.
And then you have to explain
why there's a gap on your resume.
Like you said, it can start
to mess with your head.
So, what's your advice for people
who are currently in that position
and on the job hunt?
- Honesty is your best policy.
I went into interviews
trying to finagle my way out
of saying I was unemployed,
but when I actually started
saying what really happened,
people understood it.
A lot of people were
going through hard times,
a lot of companies were laying people off,
so me being laid off
wasn't out of the ordinary.
But what I focused on was
what I was doing in the meantime.
So yes, I have been
unemployed for a year or more,
but in this time I've been studying this,
I've got picked up these certifications.
Excuse me, I've volunteer
here, I built these projects,
this is what I've done to get myself ready
for my next position.
I haven't just been sitting
around doing nothing.
And honestly I had one interview
where after walking through a scenario
with that potential employer,
they gave me the feedback
that I explained that better
than people that had been
at that company for 10 years.
So, use that time to
level up your expertise
and flaunt that in your interviews.
- I know Aaron there are a lot of people
who are tuning in right now
who are thinking about making a change.
What are some good actionable steps
when you're exploring a new industry
or maybe even a new career path?
- Absolutely, first thing
is do your research.
So don't just jump into something
because somebody says it's a good thing,
and then set measurable
goals for yourself.
If this is a totally new industry for you,
if you've never touched
anything in it at all,
set goals and then celebrate your wins.
Celebrate the first time
you build something right,
celebrate the first test that you pass,
celebrate those small wins
and then just really set
long-term goals for yourself
so you can make sure that
you're continuing down your path,
and the biggest thing is just
to really believe in yourself
and believe in what you can accomplish.
I never thought that I would be here,
I never thought that I would be able
to do any of these things and
I surprise myself day by day.
Like you never really know
what you can accomplish
until you actually give yourself the space
and opportunities to do so.
So believe that you can get
to wherever you wanna get
and just keep moving forward.
- Our community is so
important to our journey.
So what tips and advice do you have
for getting more plugged
in and finding that support?
- So one of the things I love
about the Salesforce community
is the fact that there
is an actual community.
When I first got started
and I didn't know anything,
I was on Twitter talking about my journey
and talking about what I was trying to do.
And the outpouring of support that I got
was instantaneous for one.
But it honestly was overwhelming
that there were so many strangers
that didn't know me at all,
but were invested in my success.
They gave me their phone
numbers, they gave me resources,
they coached me, they taught
me some of them yelled at me.
I won't say your name,
but you know who you are.
That's really what drew me in.
There was so much
support in this community
that you won't be able to fail
because there be so
many people holding you up
and pushing you until reach your goals.
So if I can give any other advice,
get connected in the community,
find yourself a local user group,
and even in these COVID times,
a lot of the user groups are virtual.
So you don't even have to
necessarily be in the area
that you live in, you can
join a user group anywhere,
but just connect with like-minded people
that want to see you
succeed, and that will help you.
- All right Aaron, final question,
and my favorite question,
what is your superpower?
- I think it's definitely
finding the good,
there are a lot of things
that go wrong in life,
but I'm a firm believer
that everything happens for
a reason, be it good or bad,
everything happens for a reason
and it's up to you to find the lesson
that is in whatever it
is you're going through,
find that good and be
able to push forward.
I went through some
hard times, losing my job,
I had to sell my first house
because I was unemployed for so long,
but because I found the
good in those situations
and I found ways to move forward,
I was able to get into a better place.
And I'm literally in a better place
because I'm sitting in a house
that I just moved into Thursday
because I was able to buy another house
because all this just went right.
Because I stayed focused,
because I stayed motivated,
and because I pushed towards
those goals I had for myself,
yes I had to sell my house before
because I was unemployed for so long,
but now I'm in a better house.
- I love that, and I love that superpower.
It is perfect for you.
So Aaron, just thank you so much
for sharing your story with us,
your experience and advice are so relevant
and I know they're gonna
help so many people
along their journey.
- Thank you Ebony.
- I know this is a popular
topic with all of you.
So let's hear your questions.
- Hi, Ebony, I'd love to ask your advice
on how you manage to
handle the parts of your job,
that you don't love that much
with the parts of the
job that you love a lot.
How do you strike that balance
between business needs
and personal passions?
- Great question, Devi,
and I've thought a lot
about this over the years
and where I landed is pretty simple,
that it's called work for a reason.
I'm ultimately here and getting paid
to do all the parts of the job,
the good, the bad, the ugly
and every week when I cash my paycheck,
I'm saying, I'm committed
to doing all parts of this job.
So trust me, there are parts of my job
that I like to do very sparingly
and parts that I wish I
could do all the time like this.
But at the end of the day,
striking a balance means
that I have to put the
business needs first, always.
I have to prioritize what
I'm being paid to do,
and the rest is just icing on the cake.
I think the good news
is that we can balance
and do all of it,
we just have to keep
everything in its proper place
and proper proportion.
Thanks so much again
for the question, Devi.
I hope you all enjoyed
today's conversation.
For more BossTalks be sure to check
back here on Salesforce Plus
so you never miss an episode.
and to continue Boss building
head on over to trailblazer.salesforce.com
to join millions of trailblazers
who are learning relevant skills,
connecting to fellow trailblazers
and giving back with
the trailblazer community.
With that thank you all
for tuning into Boss Talks
and we'll see you all next time.
♪ ♪