- Hi, my name is Maida Jones.
I'm one of the vice-presidents
in Philanthropy at Ochsner Health.
I have a wonderful Dr. Nigel with me today,
and he's going to introduce himself.
- Yeah, Maida, thanks for the opportunity to be here.
So my name is Dr. Nigel Girgrah,
I'm a practicing transplant liver doctor.
I moved here to new Orleans from Canada in 2007.
And over the years I've had a number
of traditional physician leadership roles.
As a chair of a few departments,
medical director of medical specialties.
And then over the last couple of years
I've assumed a less traditional physician leadership role
and that is the role of chief wellness officer.
Great to be here.
- One of the things that we're going to,
the topic we're going to be talking about today
is mental health awareness.
Cause mental health awareness month is upon us.
So we wanted to kind of get into the dialogue
of the impact and some of the stereotypes of mental health.
For as far as for myself,
I went through a lot and I struggled with
some of the stereotypes of mental health myself.
I lost my son in September of 2019,
I said I wasn't gonna cry.
- So sorry.
- And for me in my family, I'm the strong one, right?
So out of all my mom's kids
I'm the one that handles everything.
So when I lost my son, I still felt like
I had to handle everything, which was ridiculous.
That was my son.
And one of the things that I have to focus on
being able to lean on others,
which I wasn't accustomed to.
At least three different times I ended up in the ER,
because my head was hurting so bad.
My blood pressure was so high
and they were like, whatever you're dealing with
you really have to stop, calm down,
talk to someone cause you're going to hurt yourself.
And I don't suffer with high blood pressure.
So I started, I did go seek therapy, counseling
which was amazing, and one of the things
in the black community that I'm so glad it's changing,
they tell you to give it to God, go to church,
leave it at the altar all of these things,
which are all wonderful.
And I did all of those things
but that there is times when that's just not
all the resources that you need.
And then so kind of got through that
started a gratitude journal about I always was taught,
that when you're going through something
count your blessings,
look at the things that you can be grateful for
and don't focus on the bad.
God's got you struggled to get through that.
and then we were hit with COVID.
So many people dying, family or friends
can't see each other.
That was a nightmare in itself.
And we had the whole George Floyd black, lives matter issue.
What's so I felt like one thing on top of the other thing.
And I'm like, okay, God, I'm faithful,
I believe in you, I think I can take much more.
So I was just struggling internally and nobody
really even knew it because I'm the strong one.
That's not what I do.
And I was just, I hit a peak where I had to just stop.
I really had to seek out counseling
and Nigel you did an article for all of the employees
that was so touching, it just moved me to tears.
And after really reading it, I really opened up
and said I don't have to do this alone.
I don't have to be alone.
I'm going to reach out to others.
And so the article that you wrote for the employees
was so moving and so touching that it really did help me
and I will forever remember that.
I mean, I printed it and I saved it.
That's how powerful it was to me.
And I know when you started in one position
and ended up transitioning into something else.
So if you could tell us a little bit about that.
- Well, burnout and depression was a longstanding
passionate bind that predates COVID.
I probably hadn't thought about burnout in the workplace
until I returned to my hometown of Toronto
for med school reunion and learned that one of my friends,
somebody I went through med school with
a highly accomplished surgeon, had taken his life.
And actually you could Google his name, very famous guy.
And it was the description of personal issues,
alcoholism, losing his license, losing privileges,
a criminal case and then even a high-speed police chase
across rural Ontario, that got me interested.
And that sort of led to me taking on this role.
And you're exactly right Maida.
Pre COVID for a number of reasons, I think my role was
fairly focused on our physicians and ABPs.
Can you also hear me?
- [Maida] Yes.
- Oh, I'm sorry.
I thought I lost, sorry, Maida.
And then COVID hit and it hit hard as you described
and it affected me.
So like many of us, the actual first wave of COVID
was an incredible circumstance.
We started to move from that and then we sort of moved
into sort of witnessing what was going on
on a national level with the George Floyd incident
and the national discussion about
racial inequities, social unrest.
And I sort of sensed that I was languishing
and I think languishing is somewhere in between
flourishing and burnout or depression.
And it's interesting,
at some point somebody asked me how I was doing
and usually just sort of say, okay
but I sort of opened up.
And Maida that was kinda my aha moment.
So to your point, and so I craze on your courage to share
a little bit of yourself and your vulnerability.
So every July and August, and then this led to the letter
I go through an incredible funk and I recognize why that is.
It represents the anniversary
of the birth of my son Bennett,
and then a year later his death.
And I sort of recognize the cues
but I'm usually able to kind of compensate for that.
Like I go up to Canada,
I hang out with my family and loved ones.
I won't go into details but this is the year
I had a knee injury so I couldn't really exercise.
And this July, August was worst for me.
And then I recognize that to your point
everybody has their story.
It's not just me.
And I thought that sharing my story
as you described it in an open letter to all employees
or at least start the conversation.
Because I think people will be more willing to reach
out for help if they see their leaders or their organization
sharing a little bit about themselves.
And so that better work it out
and thanks for your feedback in early September.
And the feedback was overwhelming.
I think it had the highest open rate
of any executive communication.
The response rates were significant long impassioned
people not physicians or agencies,
people of races that reached out for help.
And we were able to,
our office was able to connect them to the right people.
So, yeah, and that sort of got me thinking
about what we need to do as a profession,
an industry and as an organization.
And I'm happy to talk about that in terms of
elevating the discussion.
So that's where I'm now, and probably,
I think I've got another 10, 15 years of my career.
I think that's what I really want to dedicate myself
to is this concept of really de-stigmatizing mental health.
- Which is a wonderful idea because I think people have
image of when they think of mental health
that they'll see someone, a homeless person,
or someone that's addicted to drugs and all of those things
or a component of mental health, but here I am.
And so are you, we are both executive leaders
in the healthcare system who we deal
with mental health issues.
I really honestly think that every party has a version
of a mental health PTSD, right?
They stereotype that for military.
I lost my home in hurricane Isaac years ago
when it hit La Crosse and every hurricane season
I am in full blown panic.
I mean, so that is another form,
it's just so many different things that we all go through
and mental illness does not, mental, it just doesn't have
a specific look or a specific face.
I think we all go through something.
It's just a matter of how we choose to handle it
and what resources.
And one of the things that I love about Ochsner,
is we actually have an employee assistance program
where employees can actually reach out for help
and go to counseling.
So, which is a wonderful, cause I've used the process.
- Yeah. So one of the things I have been thinking about
and the office of professional wellbeing has been thinking
about is how to anticipate the needs of our employees
and our community as we emerged from the pandemic.
So I actually was in Toronto in 2003 for stars one.
Stars one was much more limited scope to COVID clearly
but there are some well-documented significant
mental health support allotted that emerged.
So high rates of PTSD, anxiety, depression
in frontline healthcare workers.
With this pandemic there's early data coming out
of Mount Sinai in New York, Yale, high rates of PTSD.
So it's going to happen.
And to your point Maida, I think, maybe only the military
has a sort of a stigma like healthcare
in terms of coming forward.
So one of the silver linings in Toronto
and this is a long time ago,
there was a real conversation that took place.
One physician leaders, executive leaders
sharing a little bit about themselves
like you and I are doing that opened up the discussion
but also regulatory agencies, change in the questions
that they ask when we renew our licenses
and re credential.
I mean, the statistics say that one in four of us
have a history of some sort of mental health disorder.
And yet at least on a physician ABP side
we're asked to attest every year that's not an issue.
And I think we've brought such a great culture at Ochsner
and actually before COVID,
we announced this 10 year strategic plan
before COVID to address the health of our state
including mental health
and that sort of screwed our employee base.
And we've got a great EAP program Maida,
but we're also thinking anyone hear more about this.
We could use the support of others
about how to reach our employees in different ways.
So EAP for some, maybe like the code blue, like.
- Yeah.
- I've gotta reach somebody, you know,
how do we connect with individuals earlier along
the continuum in different ways,
in ways that won't be associated with stigma.
And you'll be hearing a lot more about that in
the next few months.
So yeah.
- That's great.
We in philanthropy, we actually have a code blue fund
that we do raise funding for our patients who are in need,
whether it can't make it to their doctor's appointment.
And this is patients that's here for therapy
and for counseling, just our social workers do a great job
of connecting with our patients.
So that is one of our highest probably rating mail outs
that we do when we're working with donors,
is the code blue psychiatry fund.
Because we want to make sure that our patients are able to
get the care they need and to get to their appointments
and to deal with anything that would stop them
from making their appointments.
But I am glad to hear you say that there are coming out
with different things but the employer is very concerned
for our physicians in frontline employees of what's going to
happen once COVID is no longer the topic of the day.
Cause I know they've gone through so much and seen so much.
Yeah, so.
- Yeah. I agree with you completely.
I'm very worried about all our employees in our community.
I'm particularly worried about our nurses
and before COVID, there was a lot of research
on high rates of physician suicide.
There was a paper shared with me in the last week that shows
that nursing suicide, which is catastrophic
is sort of catapulted physician suicide in the last year.
And 2020 was the year the nurse.
They were the foundation of our ability to deliver care
in the COVID era.
And that study along with nurses
deciding to exit the profession
that's a existential threat for healthcare.
So it's something we need to address head on.
And so I agree with everything you're saying.
- Well, I want to thank you
for spending a few minutes with us to talk about
the mental health awareness and the stigma behind it.
You're doing an amazing job.
And I will tell you that the article that you put out
and sent to the employees, probably have moved me
like nothing I've ever read.
And just knowing that you're not going through things alone
made a big difference.
And you know, you know that,
you mentally know you're not the only one
but to really read it and embrace it,
just made all of the difference.
So I thank you so much for everything that you're doing
and for everything that I know you will do
for the community, for our nurses, for our physicians.
And you have to remember to take care of yourself.
Cause I always try to remember to take care of myself
and it's okay to not be okay,
as it's just okay to not be okay.
- If ever if ever there was a time now (mumbles)
and thank you.
- Yeah.
- It made me feel so warm with that feedback
and you're right.
I was a little worried when that article came out
that it wouldn't be received well.
So it means a lot to me to get the feedback
that you've given me Maida.
Thank you.
- Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Look forward to seeing you soon.
- Okay.