Claire Brock: Music streaming giant Spotify has announced it will start guiding listeners
of podcasts discussing Covid 19 to more information about the pandemic.
Well, it follows a campaign over podcaster,
joe Rogan, one of the platform's main stars, music legends like Neil Young
and Joni Mitchell, had pulled their music from the streaming side.
Here's what Joe Rogan had to say in response.
Joe Rogan: If there's anything that I've done that I could do better is have more experts
with differing opinions right after I have the controversial ones.
My pledge to you is that I will do my best
to try to balance out these more controversial viewpoints with other
people's perspectives so we can maybe find a better point of view.
CB: Well, I'm joined by Emmett Ryan, Tech Journalist at the Business Post and
broadcaster Dave Fanning, to come to you first.
Emmet on that.
What do you make of that statement from Joe Rogan?
Obviously, all eyes on him and what's he was going to say after this debacle
with Neil Young essentially said to Spotify, you choose me or Joe?
And they chose Joe Rogan.
Emmet Ryan: Well, he had 100 million reasons to want to choose him because that's what Spotify
paid to have Joe Rogan exclusively on their platform.
And this really feels a bit like a sop.
Like even the warning Spotify have said they're putting ahead of it.
It reminds you what you sort of see in drink or gambling ads.
Or is that little bit of a thing?
Oh, by the way, here's the help site, just in case. Spotify doing the bare
minimum just to avoid any further scrutiny after they lost two big but not really
needle movers in terms of their subscription artists last week.
And what they're really worried about is if
Taylor Swift going to follow as an Ariana Grande or a Bad Bunny.
And that's why they're trying to show
that we're going to do enough to keep them on side.
CB: Yeah, Dave, on that.
Is it sad to say that Joni Mitchell
and Neil Young don't hold the same sway as the likes of Ariana Grande or Taylor Swift
Dave Fanning: Their hay-day is so long ago.
They know that more than anybody else.
I mean, like 100 million he's getting like
they're going to buy his past podcasts as well.
They are paying for those as well.
But if he gets a million quid a podcast on advertising, then in the space of two
years, they're going to get their 100 million back.
And after that, it's profit all the way.
So he's ten times bigger than anybody else you might mention.
But that apology there is absolutely appalling.
It puts Prince Andrew in the shade.
I mean, the thing is, he's saying it's like somebody beats up
their partner and says, I'm sorry if I hurt you.
That's more or less what he's saying.
He doesn't give two hoots.
And at one stage, you know what he said,
which I thought was really, is he trolling Joni Mitchell?
He says, I love Joni Mitchell, he says.
And the thing, I love that song,
'Chucky's in Love', that wasn't Joni Mitchell, that was Ricky Lee Jones.
And he damaged knows that.
Or if he doesn't know that, then he doesn't know Joni Mitchell.
So one way or the other, he's just chancing his arm.
He doesn't give two hoots. He really doesn't yet.
CB: So what does it mean for the likes
of Neil Young that sort of when they make that stand -
DF: Neil Young -
You've got to understand, Americans might say he's got skin in the game.
He seriously does have history here.
Joni Mitchell got polio at the age of nine.
He got polio at the age of five.
And it was before there were any vaccines.
They have believed and understand vaccines for the last 50 years.
They know exactly how they work, they know exactly how efficacious they are
and they've been brilliant for everything they needed.
Joe - not Joe, what's his name?
Neil Young also, by the way, has three kids, his daughter has epilepsy
and his other two have cerebral palsy, the two of them.
And all his life, he's really going against everything
that has to be done in terms of trying to make his life work out well.
And the vaccines have worked and all the stuff has worked as well.
He's done loads of gigs, loads of concerts.
He's got involved in so many different
things from the Monsanto thing to everything else.
And he's really been up there and given
his time and everything, he knows what he's talking about.
He knows what it is.
And when he sees Joe Rogan talking to people knowing damn well what Joe Rogan
is up to, knowing damn well that Joe Rogan doesn't give a damn about putting somebody
else in the next day, he'll say, well, actually, vaccines are great.
He just goes, that's it, I've had enough.
ER: And also, Neil Young knew that they were going to choose Joe Rogan over him.
CB: That was my next question was he aware when he made that it would make headlines? But
essentially, but he knew streaming sites?
ER: Exactly. He knew it was going to and it really has -
DF: Has it really gone down 6 billion in valuation in the last four days.?
ER: So that's kind of innocent days.
So they did, but they've clawed it back for the most part.
But now, which is why we're seeing all
this today, they're worried it could happen again.
Like market analysts are naturally going to go, well, what Spotify overvalued?
Because if something like Neil Young
leaving the platform can lead to sort of that quicker than the value.
And like we were saying,
we all know Neil Young is not going to move the needle for them.
Analysts are going to ask, well,
have we overvalued what Spotify really is as a whole?
And Spotify is obviously worried about
like a larger artist suddenly taking a similar stand.
Because if, say, Taylor Swift left tomorrow,
people would ask, where are you going to listen to what if I
DF: Spotify had a big fight with Taylor Swift six years ago.
A big fight five years ago with the Black Lives - with Black music not being
played and all the rest of the time they got all of those pretty easily.
Yeah, exactly. CB: Yeah.
Like on this I suppose it questions the future of music and it really puts
the focus on the fact in order to listen to some of our favourite artists
we don't actually own that music and they're being paid very little for it.
DF: The record companies get paid.
They don't really get paid at all.
CB: That's the bottom line. There's something in it for the record companies, but not the artists.
What's in it for us though?
DF: So in other words if Neil Young has opened a Pandora's box is it great now we can all
ER: Well - what's in it for us what Claire is saying, it's convenience but Spotify has basically brought this war
to themselves because Spotify figured right.
We've got them all listening for music now
what's the next way to grow listeners? We'll become the podcast home.
A lot of these podcasts you could have
gotten them anywhere before like Joe Rogan was on YouTube.
Never mind all the platforms.
Lots of other podcasts were similar.
They're on every platform for free. Spotify's attitude was
we'll give these people sweetheart deals.
They'll come here and their listeners will then get Spotify subs which sounds great
on paper until you realise Spotify is playing the poor mouth for years.
A lot of musicians saying we only pay you
this fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a cent and suddenly we can afford
to give sweetheart deals to all these podcasters.
Musicians are naturally going to get a bit up in arms and if they see a chance
to have a chance to just have a dig at Spotify they're going to take it.
DF: Yeah and if you want Neil Young's music you can go to Apple and Apple already
saying, "Hey we're Apple we're the home of Neil Young!" And there's loads more might
just do the exact same thing and loads of people now realise there's more out
there than Spotify all in the last five days because of Neil Young.