Hank: Good morning, John.
It's been almost two years since our last big election here in the US.
And in Montana, during that election, a weird thing happened.
While Donald Trump was winning 70% of the vote,
we had a governor who got reelected with 54% of the vote
who was a Democrat,
and that just seems a little bit like something that I don't understand
and that I would like explained to me.
I have got coming into my office today an expert on this topic.
I think, probably one of the preeminent experts on this topic.
Gov. Bullock: (reading script) 'Governor Steve Bullock?! Why are you in my office? This is weird!'
Hank: He's reading my script! Stop reading my script!
Gov. Bullock: Oh, ssh, ssh, I can't read the script
Gov. Bullock: Where do you look, right here or here?
Hank: I mean, people won't be able to tell difference.
Hank: This is Governor Steve Bullock, the governor of my state. Hello.
Hank: How do you like my office?
Gov. Bullock: If all of America in the world could see it all.
Hank: They can't.
Gov. Bullock: Imagine that.
Hank: They can only see this back wall.
Gov. Bullock: Right here.
Hank: So, you recently made some headlines when, uh,
Hank: The FCC was poo-pooing on net neutrality.
Hank and Gov. Bullock: [unintelligible]
Hank: And this is a big deal in my line of work.
Hank: And Montana, I was sort of surprised, was the first state to come up and say,
Hank: 'Well, no, let's have it.'
Hank: You signed an executive order saying,
Hank: 'Let's have some protections, at least here in the state of Montana, to maintain net neutrality.'
Hank: Why? And how? Does that work?
Gov. Bullock: What we did is said,
Gov. Bullock: 'If you're going to sell Internet services to the state of Montana,'
Hank: Right.
Gov. Bullock: 'you not only have to have a free and open Internet for [the state of] Montana,'
Gov. Bullock: 'but for all Montanans.'
Hank: You're not saying that they can't do it?
Gov. Bullock: They can block and throttle all they want,
Gov. Bullock: But that just means they can't sell services to the state of Montana.
Hank: Right.
Gov. Bullock: Or now, the state of New York, New Jersey, Hawaii, ...
Hank: Yeah.
Gov. Bullock: ...Vermont, as other governors have done the same thing.
Hank: Did they base that legislation off of what you wrote?
Gov. Bullock: They basically took our same executive order.
Gov. Bullock: And we even provided, for any governor,
Gov. Bullock: you know, you can just click and fill in the template (Hank chuckles).
Gov. Bullock: How this came about though was pretty interesting.
Gov. Bullock: Well, my staff came out and said,
Gov. Bullock: 'Your daughter is calling through your main switchboard.'
Gov. Bullock: And I'm like, [laughing] 'Why?'
Gov. Bullock: 'Why would Caroline call my main switchboard?'
Gov. Bullock: So, I pick it up, and she called our congressional representatives,
Gov. Bullock: voicing her concern, and some of her friends, about repealing net neutrality.
Gov. Bullock: And my first answer was, 'I'm sorry, honey.'
Gov. Bullock: 'I can't do anything. This is a federal issue.'
Gov. Bullock: But that got me thinking.
Gov. Bullock: No, actually, the states could take the lead on this
Gov. Bullock: when the administration is trying to roll it back.
Gov. Bullock: You can thank Caroline for saving the Internet.
Hank: Thanks, Caroline.
Hank: I've written in my notes here,
Hank: 'Montana, red state, you governor, how?'
Hank: That's what my notes say.
Gov. Bullock: [laughing]
Hank: So you know what I mean?
Hank: Like, I'm legitimately very curious about this from several angles.
Hank: Like, one, I believe in pushing good, progressive agendas
Hank: and having you in charge of the state of Montana
Hank: really helps with that and, like, functionally helps a lot of people.
Hank: Second, I think that we have a problem
Hank: with division in this country,
Gov. Bullock: Yep.
Hank: and it's getting much worse.
Hank: And I hope that you can provide me with some hope.
Gov. Bullock: [laughing]
Gov. Bullock: First of all, how I got there and how I govern isn't all that different.
Hank: Those are kind of the same thing to you?
Gov. Bullock: Yeah, meaning that I show up, I listen, I engage with people.
Gov. Bullock: I don't just try to find people that share all of my same thoughts.
Hank: Well, you don't have that luxury..
Gov. Bullock: Yeah, you can't go do that in Montana, can you?
Gov. Bullock: What do you want?
Gov. Bullock: You want a safe community.
Gov. Bullock: You want clean air, clean water, good job, roof over your head.
Gov. Bullock: So those are actually the values that most people have.
Gov. Bullock: That's what we ought to be talking about from a public policy standpoint.
Gov. Bullock: We actually have to talk to people.
Hank: Yeah.
Gov. Bullock: Showing up matters a lot.
Hank: Would it be better for all of us
Hank: if we were trying to win everyone instead of just trying to mobilize the base?
Gov. Bullock: Yes, yes
Gov. Bullock: well
Gov. Bullock: You're never gonna win everyone Hank: well of course you're never going to but like but try but but like make your case
instead of just abandoning whole sections of the electorate say like I
I am out here for you
Gov. Bullock: and nationally
Gov. Bullock: I think that's what exactly what we need to do we need to listen and we need to persuade the idea of winning isn't about
Micro-targeting finding this group or this person that fundamentally agrees with everything and dragged them to the polls
Hank: Yeah
Gov. Bullock: The idea is actually to engage in that public sphere and say
Gov. Bullock: Here's why I will be fighting for you
Hank: 20% of people who voted for you also voted for Donald Trump Gov. Bullock: That's right
Does that seem impossible to you Gov. Bullock: not at all not at all
Because I think in this highly polarized system you had too many people say what's wrong with those voters
As opposed to what's wrong with us or can if we're not actually speaking to those voters
And I know that that 20% that also voted for Donald Trump. They may not agree with me on everything
Well my wife are my children don't agree with me on everything
But I think they fundamentally believe that I would be fighting for them. I'd be listening to them
Hank: I worry a lot about the erosion of faith in press and in government,
Gov. Bullock: and I think a lot of people that run
For office are running against government same government is a horrible look
There are inefficiencies (Hank: Sure, yeah) There are ways to make it better
But, you ought to be running to be part of the solution, and I don't disagree. I mean the dele- dele-
delegitimization
If that's even a word if it's not it ought to be. Hank: I think delegitimization is a word, but I think the thing you said is not
The tearing down of the media
A hashtag fake news for anything that he might disagree with
That's that's not the way we run a representative democracy Hank: so you've run for office a couple of times a few times Bullock: I have
It looks from the outside, terrible.
Traveling all the time. You're away from your family
But also you're being dragged through the mud everything is public
Does it suck Gov. Bullock: This isn't the time to launch Hank Green for governor based on the way you phrased that
So the best advice I ever got was actually from a Republican. He was guy named Tom Ridge he said
You run to win, but you win to run
So you run for office to win, but you win to run government.
I know that we have kids and publicly funded preschools now because of our work, our health care.
Notwithstanding the fact that, yeah, these horrible ads.
Your focusing on what you can do
It makes some of the challenging parts a little bit less challenging.
Hank: It sounds like a kind of unique job that
maybe you don't really know how to do when you show up first. Like, is there a training course or
Like a like a private discord channel just for governor's to talk about governor stuff
Gov. Bullock: Now, this is just between you and I, right?
Hank: Who do you call when you're like,
'I don't actually know a hundred percent how to governor right now'
Yeah, your peer group is small. When you first get elected there's something called, well, I call it baby governor school
they send you down, and maybe, how to stand like a governor or talk like a governor versus...
Who's they!? Who's doing this?
National Governors Association.
Okay
So when i...
There's a National Governors Association! I was right!
And I'm about to become the head, the chairman of the National Governors Association come this summer.
You're in your second term (Bullock: Yep) and you're ready to leave.
In about six years I got elected to be in charge of it all.
So, learn some from my peers.
And then what you try to do is surround yourself with really good people.
Listen; hopefully as much as you talk.
You start out just drinking from a firehose and it's not without a challenge.
I'm very interested in having more young people interested in running for office and being part of government.
Yep.
What would you say to people who might not have considered that, or maybe you're thinking about it, and like advice.
I mean there is no magic age to get involved first of all. Like, we have a state legislature in Montana that
hadn't graduated high school when he got elected. There are so many things that you can do growing up, but I know
that I impact people's lives. Be willing to take that step; you may fail, but I've learned more from my
setbacks probably than my successes.
you are a Democrat in a gun culture State.
We need to have a gun discussion in this country. Bullock: Yeah.
Can you give some insight into how to like bring people into that conversation rather than,
the sort of the institutions that are trying to control people's perspectives.
You know I talked earlier about sort of how we share values
There was this group Pew that did this big research project just last year and said that
two-thirds of the gun owners, one of the main reasons why they own it is to keep themselves
Or their family or their community safe
And they don't trust the government's ability to do it. Those folks that want some restrictions
They want to keep themselves in their community their family safe. They don't trust the government's ability to do it
with all these firearms out there. So I think that there's more
commonality than we would think. Now, we're not gonna solve all gun violence,
but a public health approach right with cars is 'we put in seatbelts', that didn't quite get there
'We put in airbags' didn't quite get there, but we continued to improve. Like, we know that if we did universal background checks
We know that it could make a meaningful difference
There's red flag laws the idea that a family member or law enforcement
Sees somebody at a point where they could be a danger. The ability to go petition a court to take their gun for a period of time.
We know that there are things that can be done.
You know, you'd asked earlier about young people getting involved.
Parkland, Florida students may actually fundamentally change.
And when we saw in Montana, students walking out -
just in recognition and protest.
So maybe this will finally be the time where the grown-ups are listening to the kids.
What are you most afraid of?
Like, in terms of, not in terms of like your own personal existential dread.
United States always been
the place that everyone looks to as a beacon of hope, the beacon of opportunity. In some respects
we are advocating our role as the international leader
And I can say that from everything from climate to coalition's where we're trying to do peacekeeping.
I worry as you had mentioned too about the divisiveness in the system.
And look, everybody's life isn't consumed with what happens in government.
But if government isn't working it can negatively impact everybody's life.
What do you most worry about?
Uhm
Damn, you're not supposed to ask questions.
This is a remarkable opportunity that i got to talk to you.
And that you got see my family. And thank you so much for coming by.
I know that you're, I imagine super busy.
That was very cool.
It was my pleasure, for sure, really appreciate it Hank.
Bullock: That was fun! Hank: Yeah!
If you wanna watch more of my interview with governor Bullock
where we talk more about what it's like to be governor, voting, and what we're afraid of. Stuff like that.
I've taken some of the bits that I took out of this and put it up on Hanks Channel
This was a fascinating and cool thing to be able to do.
As the governor was leaving, he said a thing that I've been thinking about ever since. He said that,
If you win by writing off everybody who disagrees with you and only pulling the people who
really deeply agree with you to the polls, then maybe win the election,
but also maybe you lose the ability to govern.
We might be seeing what that looks like right now.
But if government stops working, yes, that hurts everybody, but it especially hurts the people who need help the most.
John, educational videos are exempt from time limits, and I will see you Tuesday.
Bullock: i should snap-chat with my daughter. So, i only snap-chat with 2 people. And that's my 2 daughters.
So, did you already snap me yet or should I say hi or something?
Bullock: Oh? Yeah? What do you say?
Hello
Bullock: Their names are Caroline and Alex.
Hello, Caroline and Alex!
This is weird.
but we passed one of the most progressive campaign disclosure laws [Hank's phone rings]
Hank: Jesus Lord... Are you serious?
Travis.
Travis!
Should i just start swearing a lot if we want to cut that out.
Yeah, well what you wanna do - you have to be relatable to the youths. So if you could just like, I don't know, say lit.
Person off screen: Lit.