- Why are you so depressed?
You're not gonna have any friends.
Nobody's gonna wanna be around you.
You should just be happy all the time.
What's wrong with you?
Why do you keep doing this?
(groans)
- Mended Light. (Alicia laughs)
(upbeat music)
- Your friends are gonna leave you
if you keep being depressed.
- I cannot believe a therapist said that, and yet,
it was said by a counselor. - Here we are.
- Here we are, so we polled our Mended Light community
on what are some terrible things
that a therapist has said to you,
what's some terrible advice?
And one of them, I guess in an attempt
to shame somebody out of being depressed?
- I find that shaming always changes behavior.
I mean, it's the most efficient mode,
to change behavior, is shaming.
It's not, it's all lies.
- No, it's not. - It never works.
Shaming never works.
- Well, and shaming is the tactic
of somebody who feels like they've run out of options
and doesn't know what to say.
And if I'm a therapist, and I'm getting to a place
of shaming people, I would rather say,
"You know, I'm not 100% sure how to help you today.
I think we need to take a break for this week,
I'll see you next week.
I'm gonna regroup and think of some new approaches.
And I'd like for you to do the same."
Or push come to shove, "You know, I think we've gone
as far as we're able to go together.
I don't have any other ideas," and make the referral.
But to get to a place to say
your friends are gonna leave you...
- It's so damaging. - Yeah.
- Because innately the therapist-client relationship
is one of authority.
- Yeah. - Right?
And you're going to therapy because you need support,
and to be treated in such a callous, unkind, shaming way-
- Yeah. - I mean, I just hope
wasn't devastating for the person that was told this.
- I hope so as well.
It reminds me, I had a client one time
who talked about her relationship
with her father growing up.
And her father told her,
"You're never going to amount to anything,
you're pathetic, you're a loser,
you're not going to succeed."
And to spite her father, she pushed herself in school,
she became a tremendous success.
And he said, "This is what I was always going for,
I was giving you someone to push against."
And she said, "Dad, the end result is that I hate you
and I don't want a relationship with you."
- Oh, wow.
- So one, either she turned out to be a success
and he changed his tune,
"I knew you had it in ya all along."
Or that really was his strategy,
in which case, that's awful.
And I could see maybe- - And you need some help.
- Well, I could see maybe a therapist trying
a similar thing of, "I'm gonna give this person
someone to push against."
Like,, here's why I think a therapist-
- Like the devil's advocate.
- Yeah, in a misguided effort,
would say something like this,
"I've tried being nurturing,
I've tried being compassionate,
I've tried being empathetic.
And this person is still stuck in a funk.
So I'm gonna try doing the opposite,
and see if that's what works for them."
But it's not worth the gamble.
It's not worth the gamble to tell a depressed person
that they are essentially worthy of abandonment
and not being loved, because of a condition of depression
which they didn't choose or ask for.
- So I have a question for you.
- Yeah. - What would be
your counter-advice to this terrible advice?
This person is sitting on your couch, or chair, whatever.
- Yeah. - You know,
you're sitting in an office-
- Standing in the corner, because-
- Because of their shame. - Yeah.
- Shame.
And they say, "This is what my last therapist told me,
I'm still struggling with depression, what do I do?"
- I would make some joke about having to undo the damage
of what the other therapists did.
And it would only be half joking.
And then I would let them know
that their depression is not something they chose.
I've yet to meet the person who chooses depression.
- Right. - I've yet to meet
the person who says, "Yes, I wanted this in my life."
And because you didn't choose it,
there's guilt in their shame.
And I think shame is never a positive.
It's never useful, it's never helpful.
Shame is directed at your identity,
it's directed at who you are.
It's saying, "I'm pathetic, I am unlovable, I am unworthy."
Guilt, on the other hand, can be healthy, can be helpful,
if it's directed at a behavior that we chose,
that we can change.
- Right. - Right?
But depression isn't chosen.
And very often it can be managed or alleviated,
but changed or just done away with?
- Yeah. - Most people who struggle
with depression, this is kind of their cross to bear.
And they can still find a happy, fulfilling life,
but the depression is part of it.
So to first of all, to guilt somebody for depression
doesn't make any sense.
Because even in the case of healthy guilt,
it's not something they chose,
and it's not something they can change,
much more shame somebody for it.
It serves no purpose.
And so what I just said,
I would say to that client, to lay out
why what their previous therapist did was wrong.
Why the person in front of me is not at fault
for feeling depression.
And then we go into, let's unpack.
When your therapist said that,
did it land as something fearful?
Like, I think it was wrong with them to say that,
but did it elicit a response, an emotional response?
Because I'd be interested to know if the person said,
"No, I just thought that therapist was an idiot,
and that's why I'm not seeing them anymore,
because who the hell says that?"
Or if they say, "Yeah, that actually terrifies me."
- Yeah. - I would want to know
that first and foremost, and then-
- If they accepted, even though it was an untrue thing
to say, if they accepted that in, as some sort of truth.
- Yeah, because I would want to know that
before knowing how to proceed.
And if they did, I'd say, "Let's explore that, shall we?"
And ultimately the fact is, if someone is truly a friend,
they don't abandon you when things are hard.
If someone is truly a friend,
they may draw boundaries for themselves in their life.
You know, but they're not just gonna say,
"I don't care anymore."
And in the case of depression, someone who would leave you
because you're a downer, someone who would leave you
'cause you're struggling, isn't truly a friend, anyway.
That's a fair-weather, good time buddy, is all that is.
- Just, you know, I just, talking about depression
I think of Eeyore, right?
And there's nothing wrong...
Like, you have to know the sorrow to know the joy, right?
- Yeah. - You have to know
the hard to know the good, right?
And there's there's nothing wrong
with a little bit of Eeyore-ness in our life.
- No, not at all. - You know?
Going to that place of, whether it's grief,
or sadness, or whatever it is, having that healthy
self-expression, giving yourself the safe space
to express that-
- Yeah. - and saying,
"Okay, what am I gonna do now?"
- Well, and what's curious to me about the Eeyore situation
is I've heard from a lot of people
who struggle with depression, that not just Eeyore,
but Eeyore's friends are a wonderful role model of this.
Because even though, yes, they do try
and cheer Eeyore up sometimes,
when they fail to cheer him up,
they don't stop hanging out with him.
- Right, they just sit with him.
- They just sit with him, or they do their thing,
and they're glad he's there.
- Right. - Like,
because if I'm depressed, the last thing I want to do
is bring down the group, right?
And so I may withdraw from people,
because I feel like I'm a party-pooper and I'm a downer.
When I really do need that camaraderie,
I really do need that friendship.
I just can't reach the same level of happiness
or joy that they can, but I don't want to be excluded.
But if I'm insecure, I may think,
"Well, I shouldn't be here because I'm a downer."
And what I love about Pooh, and Piglet, and Tigger,
and all of them, is they're just happy that he's there.
And when he's sad, they let him be sad.
They don't make him try and be happy, and they-
- He's not a problem to be fixed.
And when he's like, "Have you seen my tail?"
They help him find his tail.
You know, it's a wonderful, beautiful thing.
And maybe this is what your friends need.
Maybe your friends want to be your friends,
but they don't know how to help.
- Yeah.
- And they feel like failures,
because they try and cheer you up, and it doesn't work.
And I find that the direct approach is best
when we think of, "How should I say this,
that, or the other?"
Just be direct.
"Guys, I love you, I love being your friend.
I'm grateful for you, and I'm grateful to be around you.
I'm struggling with depression.
That doesn't mean I have to be a bummer for the group.
What it does mean is that sometimes
you're gonna try and cheer me up, and it's not gonna work.
And in those moments, what I really need is X, Y, or Z."
And X, Y, or Z could be,
"I may need you to hold my hand,
or put your arm around me.
I may need you to cry with me, I may need you to hear me.
I may need you to just be normal and do your own thing."
And by "normal," I mean, what's the normal behavior
for this person or that person?
Not the normal standard for human behavior.
- Right. - I want you to keep being you
and just let me exist in the same space with you.
- Right, well, and conversely, like you can say that,
you can say that is the person that's depressed, it's okay.
- Yeah. - Depression is acceptable.
(both laugh)
But conversely, the friend can say,
"Hey, it seems like you're having a hard time."
- Yeah.
- "Like, what's going on for you?"
- Yeah. - "How can I support you?"
Like, "Can I call you every day? Can I text you every day?
Do you want to come to lunch?
Like I don't, I'm not 100% sure when I call you,
and you're having a hard time,
do you want to come out with us?
Is that helpful calling,
regardless of whether or not you're gonna come?"
- And if you're watching this,
and you have a friend who is depressed,
or anyone going through a hard time,
one of my favorite phrases is,
"I want to be here for you, and I'm not sure how to do it."
- Yeah.
- Expressing that want,
and then letting the other person tell you how.
- Yeah.
- And so, you know, I've had, in college,
I had a roommate who was depressed,
and I wasn't sure what to do for him.
And I wasn't sure what my role was,
as friend, and my responsibility.
And once we got into this place of,
"Yeah, there'll be days you can't cheer me up,
but I still wanna be around you."
- (laughs) So I remember a story.
- Oh yeah, this is, yeah, okay.
Listen, fine, I'll tell the story.
This roommate had a hard time...
Sometimes if your friend is depressed,
what they need is someone obnoxious in their life.
But you need to know that this is a good fit for them.
So he had a hard time getting out of bed,
and seeing hope and light in the world.
And so, and then he would miss class,
and he'd fall behind his classes.
- But if he got that, like, push to get out of bed,
it could make all the difference.
- And so one morning, I don't know what came over me.
And I just went in and I opened the door,
and with his light switch,
he's laying in bed and it's pitch black in there.
And I go...(hums Reveille)
And I switch his lights off and on. (hums Reveille)
And he goes, he puts his pillow over his head.
And he thought I was gonna stop.
Well, once he put his pillow over his head, I paused.
I turned the light off, his body relaxed.
And then I went...(loudly hums Reveille)
And he goes, "Aah," and he throws the pillow,
and he's like, "I'm up, I'm up!"
And I said, "I'm gonna do that every day."
He says, "Don't you dare." I'm like, "I am."
And here's the thing, I'm not saying that is the best fit
for every relationship, but he really appreciated it.
Like, not that day, but that kind of became our thing.
And he would be annoyed, but he'd laugh.
And the combination of the strobe, and the excessive noise,
and the laughter, and the annoyance, got him out of bed.
And he told me later that, in his case,
it was something he appreciated,
'cause it got him to class and it got him going for the day.
And thinking that maybe things aren't so gloomy
if I have a roommate who loves me enough
to annoy the hell out of me, so-
- There you go.
- I'm not saying this is a one-size-fits-all solution.
This may be terrible for some people, but it worked for us.
Your friends, if your friends distance themselves,
if they're true friends, the only reason
they would distance themselves is because
they're getting the message from you,
or they think they are, that they're not welcome.
- "Go away and leave me alone."
And so maybe on your end, the communication could be,
"This is what I need from you," right, "is X, Y, or Z."
And, "This is what it's like for me,
and this is what I expect from you,
and what I don't expect from you.
Like I expect you, and I hope you'll call me,
you'll text me, in my case.
Like, I hope you'll flash my lights off and on
and get me out of bed.
I don't expect you to make me feel better,
that's not your job," right?
- Right. - And so that can be
a very helpful thing.
- I'm so glad you overcame your depression.
- Yeah, well, if you ever get in that big of a funk,
I'm gonna start doing that with the lights.
- Fair.
If you enjoyed this video, check out the video-
- And you did. - You did.
Check out the video,
"You shouldn't marry if you're of different faiths."
- That is what a therapist said.
Were they right? Hmm.
- If you've struggled with depression,
what helps you on a daily basis?
If you have friends or family that struggle with depression,
how do you support them?
We wanna know.
- Until next time keep shining, because we need your light.
(upbeat music)
And here's that video we were telling you about.
- [Alicia] Click-e-ty click.
- [Jonathon] You don't even have to worry about
what you're doing for the next 10 or 15 minutes.
- [Alicia] You're hanging out with us.
- [Jonathon] That's what you're doing,
it's right there, do it, do it now.