Here's what Z7 90 tells us about upcoming Intel CPUs.
One officially
hinted
at Gordon with PC World, where a copy took 2023.
And I have next to me of course when Wendell from level one text.
Wendell's been looking at Z 790 boards on the floor.
I've also taken a look at a few as well.
And you know, you're going like, whoa!
Gordon z79 has been out for months and months and months.
What's nothing new here, but there's a refresh coming.
It seems like there's new Z 790 motherboards
we haven't seen before with what, five, seven and also some changes under the hood
which suggests things are coming.
And you mean like with like the things that are coming
more USB or actually things that are important like CPU applications.
It seems like we're getting even more power delivery
for that plucky little LGA 1700 socket.
And we would think that we would hear rumors of a new motherboard
in the new socket if something fabulous was coming by the end of the year.
So it seems like if we see anything at all by the end of the year,
it's going to be a refresh for LGA 1700.
So yeah, so we're seeing beefier
motherboards based on the same Z 790 chipset.
Yeah.
And the thing that's crazy to me is like Z 1790 was not beefy when it launched.
Yeah, I mean, I mean it was already beefy.
It wasn't like it wasn't weak.
What the hell else could require beefier motherboards?
Well, we kind of can connect the dots a little bit if we look back at,
you know, Alder Lake and Raptor Lake.
It's like it's a 12th generation part.
It's the 13th generation part.
And would you say that it's fair to call some of the
like non-core overclocking raptor, you know, 13th gen parts?
Not really Raptor Lake, their older lake, but their 13th gen.
And so if we connect the dots a little bit there, it's like,
well, okay, Intel could come out with something else.
That's another stepping, but they're not going to replace the full stack.
They're going to keep selling basically Alder Lake and Raptor Lake Silicon,
they might call it 14th Gen, they might call it 13 and a half,
and it might be the 3900 k ss.
I don't know.
Yeah.
And you know, we're being very coy about this, but clearly,
you know, I would expect we're going to see,
you know, been very high clock
13th gen Raptor like base CPU's.
I just don't know why you would need more power for it.
Like, how much further can you go?
Well, we might have been misunderstanding
but in Intel's earlier communication they strongly suggested,
you know, end of 2023, we would see a refresh of some kind.
And if that's the case, then there should be motherboard engineering.
But that doesn't seem like that's happened.
So, Eric, go.
It's got to be something that fits in the LGA 1700 socket.
So are you Let me get this So I do you think we might actually
see 14 gen in these boards?
I think it's going to be a 13 fan refresh.
Okay.
Now Intel might call it 1410, but at the end of the day, I think it's
going to be probably less of a move like from the Alder Lake, the Raptor Lake.
It's probably even less of a move from Raptor Lake to whatever is coming.
Meteor Lake No, I don't think so.
I mean, they wouldn't call Raptor Lake refresh.
Yeah,
because it would.
It feels like 14 gen has to be reserved for true Reader Lake, Right.
Yeah. So we always change the process.
I mean, I would even take the same cores exactly as they are in Raptor like,
but with some kind of a shrink, that'd be fine.
You got what I mean, I don't think that's going to
if they're releasing boards that have 20 power phases,
Right. Right.
I mean, that's why it doesn't make sense.
That's why it feels like you're just going to be extra hot parts that.
Yeah, I just like.
But again, you sort of alluded to it earlier.
They've already had a cast part.
Where do you go from 13 900 cast?
Yeah, I mean, you they can't call it Would it be cast plus what it says. Yes.
I mean like they've been given rumors of an ultra that ultra nomenclature
now they probably do.
Well, yeah. Ultra 13 990.
Do you get a read that
they could really I mean, they they they had cast that six gigahertz.
How much further can they really push that die?
I don't know.
6.2 We were pushing Sapphire Rapids to 7.2 earlier.
Yeah.
And that's actually something I want to mention because that's Sapphire
Rapids, of course, are all core based workstation server chips.
Yeah. And you got that to 7.2.
Yeah.
Is that with a that's a 50 watts per core basically in 16 cores.
So almost 800 watts which isn't bad. Right.
That's really not bad for 16 cores somewhat.
I mean if you look at the six gigahertz, you know, like the record
breaking 1300 case with the crazy cooling,
it was also using about 45 watts per week or so.
The wattage kind of lines up.
It's just 16 peak hours on a giant chip
versus eight cores and speakers is on something else. So
I don't know.
I don't think we'll see 16 because in a in a desktop
class CPU, I think eight eight cores probably makes sense.
Maybe maybe they will do a ten core.
Remember the ten core we had the eight core and then they did
the ten core version and it's like, that's weird.
Two more cores, huh?
You know, that actually would be kind of interesting
because I think there would be some people that one would want.
Ten peak force LOSI cores, sort of like a mini Sapphire Rapids in a
Yeah, I mean, I mean the permutations maybe they can fit.
So you saying I'm like he's, he's just playing with me.
I don't know because I honestly in my I, my expectation is
we would see ten and eight we're back to the 18 core
or just basically I mean maybe I have less imagination.
Like I figured we would just see
1300 chaos
with plus 200 and a 200 megahertz.
Yeah and call it a day.
That's kind of like the old a very old roadmap, like old edition.
But I know that you mentioned like maybe
we get a ten or, I don't know,
it seems like that would be qualifying that if we're going to get it out in time
for the fall by now.
And everybody's very tight lipped about that if that's happening.
But I mean that I mean, would you so would you want
conventional 39 K
or would you rather have a ten core clocked up?
I think I'd rather have 14. Ten.
Oh well,
but you got to you got to I don't think we're going to
can we get a die shrunk 13 900 like they don't have to make
any changes to the silicon just give me the process shrink.
That sounds radical though.
Why would you why would they invest?
Well, they had to have the processes running in parallel.
They've kind of hinted at that in
some of the investor analyst days, like, oh, we always run these in parallel.
And the one that wasn't doing so good is okay, it wasn't doing so good.
But then the other one
that's doing much better, it's basically on track and everything's fine.
So if they haven't already developed the floor
plan intellectual property for that, maybe it makes sense.
But conventional intel
strategy is new process lately.
This is new dies, new process, new design, old stuff.
Put it on the clearance bin because we don't really want to touch it.
Like, I just thought it would be that.
Yeah, but then you're right, because they are moving to a new process.
Yeah we already d we already have 13th gen parts
that are exactly the same as the 12th ten parts lower down the stack.
So instead of Intel
completely refreshing their entire stack as they have done in the past,
it's like, oh, these OEM parts in this part,
they've technically been making the same parts
just with a different badge, maybe some tweaks, but small tweaks.
So for two years, three years.
And so maybe that's the new normal, maybe that's easier.
I mean, it seems like that would be easier from a production
and maintenance standpoint because, you know, if you bought a 12 709 K, that's
still a really viable processor in today's market,
you know, like 10th and 11th Gen, there's a huge gulf in performance there,
whereas 12th Gen, you basically, you know, 13 Stan there's not a lot
of difference there, right?
At least unless you get into the really high end
and then it's like, okay, this is nice or you get eight more E cores.
That's a pretty big difference.
Yeah, Yeah. Huh. Well what I want so but
I'm not
I'm actually now more confused about what could come because I again I,
I expected the classic there's 200 300 megahertz more.
Yeah.
It's special number and Yeah, call it a day.
But I really thought like when they gave us the close ups of the die,
I really thought that there would be
a couple of pictures that were there but just disabled for binning purposes
because you know, that's how the xeons are.
There's, there's a lot of cores on there and they just always disable to do.
They always disable one on a tile or whatever.
Well, for most of the parts, there's always a core disabled somewhere.
It's like, oh, maybe they could get into that on the desktop side.
So their highest end parts and they just disable the core I5 was like that.
There were two different dies for the high five some that had the defective cores
and then some
that were just designed from the beginning to only have certain because right.
And so maybe that's something like that here.
Is that something that typically goes like I mean they sort of have the extra it's
like a provisioning extra provisioning for expecting some of the dies to be bad.
Yeah, that's in the beginning of the process when it's worse
as you get better close to the end and then you're getting higher yields.
Yeah. Do we ever get all those cores lit up or.
Well, it seems like we have 10900 on Xeon.
We're getting there on Xeon because there is the idea of favored cores
and that kind of thing in the series.
Xeons So all of those xeons that didn't quite perfectly pass muster, I think it
shunted to the ex side of things in the eight X-Series Xeons in the stack.
So you have favorite cores and you have of course it just won't clock as high.
But they're not, you know, they're not completely burned off.
They're still there.
They're just going to operate
at a lower efficiency or a lower clock speed or lower or whatever.
Yeah.
So maybe, maybe that gives them a path for those kind of products as well.
I don't know.
Something's coming.
Something is coming.
We know something is coming from Intel.
We know it's kind of on the down low because the boards have been refreshed.
Their feedback
question is, is it going to be cool stuff like what you're saying like at $0.10
core meeting, Sapphire Rapids or are we just go to 400
Watts and LGA 1700.
Yeah, because that's like, I mean that's the pattern I'm used to.
Yeah.
Let's just crank up the wattage, give you more clocks.
So like I love your idea is way more exciting to me than what I expect.
Yeah, my expectations are also low
given the struggles.
There's some, there's some real struggles coming from Team Blue,
but they're trying and the engineers, they're giving it 110%.
And I see you.
You're doing pretty good. Just keep just hanging there.
But I you know, again, me, you never know.
Maybe you can we can be surprised, right?
Because ten features would be pretty awesome.
That's probably not what they've done. That would be pretty cool.
I like the idea though, and I'm excited.
And I'm excited because I really thought 400 watts,
300, I maybe 400.
Well, four, ten peak hours would still be 400 watts, already five watts of core.
Oh, I see. And just for the the clock speeds.
Oh watts 10% over six gigahertz.
Oh yeah. That's too much.
That's too much.
I think the most we could hope for on clock
speed would be like 6.2, but that's probably way too much.
And then I you know, I think the problem is the reception
to be really 600, 400 watts, 400 watts of power,
new motherboard, expensive to give me 5% higher clocks.
I think the reception would not be as good.
Yeah, so that's why I was kind of comparing too.
Yeah.
But like so maybe cheaper, maybe cheaper price game.
Yeah.
Wow. And if something that's more of a differentiator, that's like, yes,
this is clearly head and shoulders better than what Andy is going to be able to do.
And we know that.
And he's kind of locked in in terms of the wafer allocation
and production and their ability to refresh their parts.
So yeah.
And then
what does Intel need to do?
Because I mean, where do you feel like they are in desktop Ryzen nine Core
I9 Do they need I mean I, I still feel they're fairly.
Yeah, the fairly even I would agree with that for sure
because they have pluses and minuses on each platform and CPU.
Does Intel really need to pull out to get ahead a little bit more?
I mean, I think they would have to be at least ten or 20% ahead
if you were just buying strictly on the merits
and not looking for specific platforms that one feature has or the,
you know, specific feature that one platform has versus the other,
I think Intel would have to pull more than 10% ahead at this point
to really make that much of a difference.
And LGA 1790 is basically a dead end platform where they in five
just getting started, right? Yeah.
And is it really worth going through all that
for 5% of our clocks.
Yeah.
Yeah. Huh.
It's like ten, 15% maybe, but.
All right.
Well, I'm actually now more I'm more excited now
because I thought we were going to see the same kind of like.
But we won't know till the end.
Oh, I'm going to let him go because he's got a lot of meetings to get to. But
thanks for coming, by the way, Internet.
If you want to see more great content again, he's overclocked.
He's seen the overclocking of Sapphire Rapids, the 7.2 gigahertz, 7.2.
You'll see the details of that.
I'll love one text channel almost almost 50,000 on Cinebench
our 23 with just 16 cores
46,000.
And so, yeah, I don't know. Level one text.
I'm something. I'll see you later. No, that's great.
And by the way, go to the vortex, cook like it's a put the bell
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