As behavior analysts, teachers, and even parents, we all make mistakes teaching our children
and clients with and without autism.
Today we'll be discussing some of the more common mistakes professionals and parents
make when teaching.
I know I've made all of these mistakes and I'm sure you'll benefit from hearing these
mistakes too.
Hi, I'm Dr Mary Barbera, autism mom, board certified behavior analyst, online course
creator and bestselling author of the verbal behavior approach.
Each week I provide you with some of my ideas about turning autism around, so if you haven't
subscribed to my youtube channel, you can do that now.
Today I'm sharing a small excerpt from podcast number 27 an interview with Theresa McKeon,
who is one of the creators of Tag Teach and she discusses common mistakes when teaching
children with autism.
You can check out the full podcast episode at marybarbera.com /27 or click the card on
the screen now.
What are the the, what are the mistakes you see when you do work with not just behavior
analysts, but you work with a lot of teachers, a lot of trainers, and what?
What do you think are like a couple of the mistakes you see most commonly?
Yeah.
When the teacher has a picture in their mind of what they're seeing.
Uh, or especially if something's on the table and you're doing writing or you're doing,
you know, pick up a pencil, you know in your mind what you're looking for.
They don't.
And so when they don't do all of those things that you're looking for, you go, that's wrong.
And it's hard for you to break down what's wrong because it is, um just second nature.
All the movements that you do to pick up a pencil and move it into your fingers and get
it in the right spot or pick up a glass or tie your shoes or any of these things.
There's this picture that's so in your mind it's hard to break down.
So I, I think that is the hardest things is if we are teaching, we are probably pretty
good at what we do to be the teacher.
Right?
The very fact that you're teaching someone else means that you probably do it really
well and have forgotten the steps that lead up to doing it.
Um, and even when you do think you can break it down, it's, it's still too big and that's
frustrating to go, but I just told you, or I just showed you, or how come you couldn't
take your finger and touch that dot.
It's just so easy.
It gets frustrating.
Um, and that goes across whether I'm teaching, um, factory workers or, or, um, organizational
business or kids with autism or sports people.
The teacher gets frustrated cause I already know what it is.
The other day, yesterday I was clicker training my new horse and I wanted him to touch something
and he wouldn't.
And I thought, well, why won't he touch this?
I'm putting it right up in front of his face and I just went, ah, it's too much for what
reason?
Now my job is to figure out why is it too much?
Is it too much stimuli?
Is that I don't understand what you're doing?
Do I need to make this skill smaller or do I need to make the environment quieter?
Or maybe both.
But that's what I want teachers to remember.
No matter where you're using, whatever technology, whether you’re using your technology or
Tag Teach or fluency or whatever you're looking at is look at the look at the learner.
If they're learning, great, keep going what you're doing.
But is it the skill that needs to be broken down?
Is it the environment that needs to quiet?
And that might include you.
You might be too much in the environment for them to, to practice or feel confident.
And with adults who don't have special needs that I've found I am the stimulus that's too
much.
Right?
So if I'm looking at you, giving you instructions, all you're doing is thinking, am I nodding
my head right?
Am I blinking the amount of times is my, you know, my eyebrow the right way.
But if I can turn around and talk to you without looking at you, I've quieted the environment
enough and basically told my learner, I'm going to give you a time to think about what
I'm actually saying.
Am I going too deep?
Um, no, no.
I, I do think that when kids don't make progress on anything or when I don't make progress
on anything, um, most of the time it's that I don't have the prerequisite skill, uh, the
skills needed.
You know, people are working on, you know, single addition math or double addition math.
And I'm like, how fluent are they with number identification?
How fluent are they with one-to-one correspondence or, or whatever.
Um, or if they're working on to double digit, can they, you know, I, how fluent are they
with one digit?
Well, they're not, but it's ready to move on.
They're in third grade, like, get with the program.
It's like you can't just pull somebody into Spanish 4 when they haven't mastered Spanish
1, 2, and 3, even if otherwise, you know, it's like, it's not gonna work.
So when people are struggling, you know, even in my business, if there is a struggle, it's
a systems issue.
It's something that isn't, you know, there's somebody who's not fluent with something.
There's, there's an issue, there's a breakdown somewhere.
So I think a lot of times I just really tell people like, you need to bring it back.
But I think Tag Teach also with that kind of, and I don't know if this is an actual
rule with Tag Teach, I kind of remember it as such, but I could be wrong.
But like three attempts to do something and it's not working.
You've got to add a prompt or is that, is that kind of a rule or, yeah, the 3 try rule.
Well, you're exactly right.
Okay.
3 try depending on your learner, um, I know with your son 3 was too many, right?
I don't want him to get to the point where he throws that down and goes, I don't want
to do it anymore.
Right.
So can I catch it on the first try?
Can I catch it on the second try?
So, depending the gymnast were, were, were pretty, were pretty good.
They could go to 3 most of the time.
So just depends on your learner.
Me, if I fail 3 times instead of in front of somebody that I respect, I'm going to be
horrified.
So don't let me fail 3 times, please.
Yeah.
So I know one of the main challenges of spreading the Tag Teach technology is that people like
your gymnast's parents say, I don't want the same thing clicker training used for animals
and they're, you know, even it, a lot of people will have problems with ABA in general and
they're like, you know, ABA is dog training and, and this is, you know, inhumane.
It's like, ah, no, it's the most evidence based treatment for autism.
And if you're seeing a not good procedures being done that doesn't, that doesn't represent,
uh, what I would consider good ABA or good Tag Teach or whatever.
So how do you, how do you respond to people that say that, um, you know, Tag Teach is
just clicker training in disguise and that we shouldn't be using it for humans if we're
using it for animals.
Yeah.
Boy, I used to battle with this a lot of, mostly in my mind I won't battle with, with,
with somebody.
Cause if they don't like it, that's fine.
You can explain to them the science but, but at this point they probably don't want to
hear anything about that.
Um, I simply can go in without the audible marker and use something that they are familiar
with using an audible marker that they use everyday, which is yes or good or something
that that is typically s uh, acceptable.
And then you can say you do see the state, right?
Or You, you know, in a nice way you could say, yes is my marker.
This is a little faster, a little cleaner and has less stress involved with it.
I, I'm not putting as much pressure on you.
I won't have a tendency to go yes and do all these weird things that we do with our words.
Um, but if they're not accepting of that and I can't get them to learn, then, then I won't
use that marker.
Um, and so I won't fight them on there.
There is nothing about saying do this good job that is any different than, that's not
dog training to them, that that's normal training.
And that's what we've always tried to say, that, that being clear about what we want
and putting parameters around success and then saying, yes, you've done it.
Wh what is dog training about that?
I hope you enjoyed this short snippet from the podcast.
If you want more content, check out the podcast at marybarbera.com /podcast, wherever you're
watching this, I'd love it if you would leave me a comment, give me a thumbs up, share this
video with others who may benefit.
And for more information, you can attend a free online workshop atmarybarbera.com /workshop
and I'll see you right here next week.