♬
Here's the other thing about being in a group and blending,
you have to have a similar idea of what is important
in that chord.
And that is- we have different philosophies from time to time
and that's where, you know, we have to talk about that.
Because you know, I know for me, when I first got
in the group it was whoever is singing the top part
is the most important.
And a lot of times that wasn't the melody.
So that was throwing me off and then in “Alliance”,
which became Take 6,
everyone reconciled to the top part.
And the way I heard harmony
I always reconciled to the base.
And so that was kind of weird for me
at the beginning.
So we still have philosophical arguments about it,
but my thought is always that, as an acapella group,
I completely agree with you except for the fact
that most people who hear you
are going to hear the top part.
So if that person is wrong or doing something that's
a little squirrelly,
they're not even going to really know
that the bass is solid.
They just know that the top is wrong.
[Justin] Because it sticks out a bit.
[Joel] Then the other thing that happens with intervals
is that it produces dissonance that you're trained
to appreciate and look for the dissonance of certain intervals
and I think people who are not as musical
shy away from when they hear two waves
that are right up on each other,
they're trained to let go of that because, well,
there's got to be something wrong because I hear
the dissonance, the zzzz, in that interval,
but when you're trained to look for it
you're not just comfortable with it
but you see the beauty in it
and you learn how to lay back in that,
the beauty of that dissonance.
[Khristian] That's a whole word bro, that's a whole word.
That's a life word.
[Claude] I never really thought of it that way,
[Khristian] That's a good one.
Well, the funny thing was when they were rehearsing
these earlier groups before Take 6,
Um
I was the little kid that came in and had to
wait for Mark while he was rehearsing.
And it's interesting, at Merv's house,
to occupy me they gave me this little game
called Simon Says.
And so I remember playing Simon Says
while he's rehearsing with the guys.
The interesting thing is-
Okay so it has light and it has sound.
And it constantly builds the pattern.
And so I'm sitting here thinking of how that prepared me
to be in this group.
Because I had to learn intervals and I had to learn patterns
that are constantly extending and now you have to remember.
And that had a lot to do with what it felt like to me
coming into the group.
Because I had to learn a part that was
a collection of intervals and patterns-
[Alvin] I gotta interrupt you, I got to do a Dave Thomas right now.
So Dave's concept, Dave's philosophy,
is that top to bottom- that's what you learn,
that's what you hear, that's what's important.
You're saying you learn laterally.
So are you not paying attention to this?
Or you you connect the dots this way?
[Joel] So here's the thing, to learn those parts
I was taught- I was familiar with the song-
but I had to learn my part.
[Alvin] Right.
[Joel] And when I first came into the group,
Mark was only rehearsing with me first,
showing me what my part was.
Then I came into the group setting
but it drew upon what providentially prepared me for it
because I drew upon what I now know to be intervals-
because I didn't know then-
intervals and patterns.
And remembering the interval and pattern
of what this is,
then I saw how it fit into the group chord.
[Alvin] Retroactively.
You're like, oh this is where I am.
[Joel] Right. Now it all helped because I knew the song already.
I grew up singing these songs
I knew the chords but for me to learn my part
I was going to have to learn intervals and patterns
and remember groupings of where they fall,
while he's adding more and more.
So it's all going back to that Simon game
of the further you get the longer
you have to remember your pattern,
the more ingrained it has to become,
while you learn something new.
[Alvin] With muscle memory.
[Joel] With muscle memory.
[Alvin] Which is what it feels like.
[Dave] Which is interesting because,
the funny thing about Joey saying the Simon,
is we had a Simon in our house too.
And what I realized is if I only think sequentially
I’ll mess up sooner.
You just gotta let it wash over you
and sort of just feel it like a song,
like a melody,
and suddenly it was easier to do.
And how I applied that, it's funny Vin that you said
that your perception is that I think like this,
but I have to think like this and like this.
When you're singing in the middle, um,
there are times when sometimes you're pushing up
and sometimes Claude is squashing down.
I have to perceive where the pitch center actually is
and so at that point then if I think too much
it becomes difficult.
I just have to let it wash over me
and perceive where I am and just go with it.
[Alvin] But make also make allowances for everyone
learns in a different style.
[Dave] That's true, that’s true.
[Alvin] So I don't know if that's getting us to
there's no real right way or is it that you just can
appreciate how you learn it versus how he does it.
[Laughter]
[Dave] When you say that, for me I think it keeps
coming back to relaxation.
Because any amount of stress is going
to interfere with your ability
to proceed and the deeper that things
get with groups like Take 6,
and harmony, and when you have an
arranger like Mark you can't think you just have to be.
[Laughter]
[Alvin] Ah there is not to think but to be.
[Dave] Yeah because the more you think about this
there’s no way, there’s no way to do it
[Khristian] There’s a part- we can’t sing it
this morning because I already know the guys
haven’t warmed up.
I don’t know, maybe they could.
But there is a part in "Quiet Place"
where I have to hold this one note and it seems like
the chord and everything is changing,
different shapes around, and I'm supposed to
hold this one note right before, uh,
“then from this quiet place”.
Everything's changing, and like you were saying
I've had to learn, I'm still having to learn-
I get anxiety before that part comes.
Because I know it's coming and I'm like,
I've got this one note and it feels like if I don't relax
[Claude] So you get anxiety for that one note, wow.
[Khristian] Dude, and I’ll tell you why.
Because where it lands right before the “then”
if I'm not in the right place this chord is going
to sound jacked up.
[Justin] Do you want to try it?
[Khristian] Oh man.
[Joel] So here's the thing if everybody will just relax
in how they're singing it then it should
come off perfectly.
Just be the song!
[Dave] Not just that, but I have to also disagree
with something that Mark said.
I’ve actually encountered people who cannot sing harmony
[Mark] Oh they're always going to be some.
[Dave] I thought you were saying you could teach it.
[Claude] He’s saying it can be taught.
[Mark] It can be taught if you have, if you have like-
[Alvin] That’s why we have a career.
There are a lot of people that can’t sing harmony.
[Laughter]
A whole lot of people.
[Joel] Mark is saying he can teach them.
[Mark] Look-
[Alvin] Do not!
We’ve got bills to pay, Mark.
We’ve been over this!
Do not teach anybody else.
As a matter of fact, cut!
[Laughter]
[Mark] That is hilarious.
Even all of us when we came into the group
we had to learn what the intervals sounded like.
But my big point is that even if you think
you know what an interval is,
there's a place where it is correct.
You cannot be sharp and you cannot be flat.
There's an exact place where it sounds right
and you also have to train yourself to know
what that is.
Now because we don't have perfect pitch
it can be relative.
But we must all move together.
[Claude] Because the wave form on every note
can be huge depending on what you're-
like Dave has the widest voice I've ever heard
of anybody.
So, wherever he is within that waveform
I have to really know where to place my notes.
[Alvin] We have perfect “trip-detection” though
[Mark] Oh yeah, we definitely do.
[Dave] But if you notice when Ced left
and Khristian came in,
we used to be able to sing without thinking.
Just eyes closed, just- matter of fact, even now,
we literally-
[Laughter]
[Joel] Now we have to open our eyes!
[Dave] And we're back, and we're back to it.
[Joel] Now we need glasses.
[Mark] But this is exactly what I'm talking about it.
It can be learned, it had to be.
Khristian had to learn what the interval
and a major seventh sound like.
[Dave] We had to have him assimilate into
the group as well because
it sits in a different place.
You know, everybody’s timbre is a little different.
So even that, you have to learn to adjust to.
[Mark] Yeah, well-
[Khristian] Windmills was my test with that one.
Because we were all together,
it was me- all of us and Ced.
And we were singing Windmills
and he would sing it and the group
would sound one way.
Then I would sing it right after him
and the group would sound
totally different.
[Justin] Can you show us this?
Can we hear Windmills?
[Khristian] Yeah, yeah.
[Justin] So this was a test for you, this one.
[Khristian] Oh this one was a huge test.
[Justin] Okay, so, let's put you to the test.
[Joey] Relative? [Alvin] A flat relative?
[Claude] ♪ Ah ♪ right?
[Joey] Or I could actually just get a pitch.
[Joey] Let’s just- it’s not bad if we actually consult-
[Mark] No guessing here.
[Dave] While we wait, even at the beginning
[Alvin] A flat.
[Dave] when you first came in the group
you needed to hear yourself a little bit more.
[Khristian] I did.
[Dave] Which also throws off our perception as well.
[Khristian] That’s correct.
[Claude] I was right!
[Khristian] He was.
[Mark] We didn’t believe you.
[Joel] Whatever!
[Dave] He’s usually right.
[Alvin] Here we go.
[Alvin] Oh yeah, remind me to ask you guys a question.
[Laughter]
[Alvin] Should I ask the question now?
[Justin] Go ahead!