- The first time Jalen Rose met Chris Webber they were 12.
Jalen told Chris "You've got the sorriest
"game I've ever seen."
And the way Rose describes it,
he and Webber should have been rivals from that moment on.
While Jalen was "taking two public buses across town at dawn"
to attend Detroit's Southwestern High School,
Chris was starring at the much fancier
Detroit Country Day private school.
Rose was a well regarded prospect but Webber got
more hype as well as Michigan's Mr. Basketball title
by a wide margin over the second place Rose.
Envy could have come between them
instead, when Webber signed to join the University
of Michigan's legendary 1991 recruiting class
Rose followed him because the two
had become such close friends.
Chris and Jalen stayed tight throughout college,
but the end of their wild ride at Michigan
and the extremely complicated legacy
of the Fab Five recruiting class has driven them apart.
The seeds of this beef were planted in the early 90s
it took almost 30 years to reach full bloom.
(classic piano playing)
Beef grows on trees I guess?
I don't know who writes this garbage.
Anyway Rose and Webber were the two Michigan born members
of the Fab Five, a Wolverines line up
that revolutionized the style and structure
of college basketball, made important statements
about amateurism and capitalism
and was really good at sports.
The feisty point forward and the smooth yet thunderous
big man were leading scorers on a squad
that made back to back NCAA finals under coach Steve Fisher.
Webber became the first pick in the 1993 NBA draft
at the time a rare and impressive honor
for an underclassman.
He'd go on to an excellent Pro career earning
his first All-Star selection in Washington
where he played alongside fellow Fab Fivesman, Juwan Howard.
He then rose to truly elite status in Sacramento
before knee injuries slowed him down.
Rose like Howard went Pro after junior year
and became a 94 first round pick.
He had some very good years on some very good
Indiana Pacers teams. (violin plays)
Webber and Rose both left the league in the late 2000s
and both quickly transitioned to television careers
that are still going strong.
It sounds simple when you paint it with broad strokes
it sounds like they should still be friends,
but we neglected some stuff.
One crucial thing happened and most
of what I just told you officially didn't happen
and it all has to do with Chris Webber.
Thing number one: The timeout
Michigan's 1992 NCAA Tournament run was an exciting surprise
they were a six seed with five freshman as starters
and while losing to Christian Laettner, Grant Hill,
and the Duke Blue Devils in the final did hurt.
People were mostly thrilled that the Wolverines
made it that far.
'93 was different. Michigan entered March Madness a favorite
and upon reaching the final they fully believed
they would take down fellow one seed North Carolina
but, down two in the closing seconds Webber committed
a now infamous infraction.
Well first he traveled but that didn't get called,
after that Webber dribbled up court got trapped right
in front of his own bench and attempted to call a timeout
even though Michigan had run out of them.
The resulting technical foul extinguished any hope
of Michigan winning it all.
Coach Fisher and Webber's teammates were quick
to console their star big man
and they insisted he wasn't the reason they lost,
that they wouldn't have even had a championship
to lose if not for Webber's brilliance
but Webber clearly took the collapse hard.
The scenes of him walking off the court
and facing the media afterward are painful to watch
and there wasn't much time to resolve this grief.
Webber boldly declared for the Draft just weeks later.
- I've decided to turn Pro,
this decision that I felt was necessary
for me to keep going and move on.
- He began his career with the Golden State Warriors
while the remaining four stars spent another season at Michigan.
This time falling in the Elite Eight. So that's thing one.
Thing two didn't hit Webber until years later
and it may have never hit if not for a car accident
that had nothing to do with him.
In February, 1996, star recruit Mateen Cleaves
visited Michigan and the team's stars took him
out on the town.
Returning from a party Maurice Taylor lost control
and rolled his SUV breaking the arm of teammate
Robert Traylor and sparking an investigation
as to what the Wolverines had been up to
that night with a recruit in tow.
An inquiry by the NCAA and the university
didn't reveal anything monumental
but later reports uncovered that the players had been
at the home of well know Michigan booster Ed Martin.
Which led to further investigations
and eventually Steve Fisher's firing.
Then the feds stepped in and discovered
that Martin was running an illegal gambling operation
and had made payments over the years
to several Michigan prospects and athletes.
Subpoenas led numerous players, coaches
and their family members to testify
before a grand jury in 2000.
Rose, like some others admitted to accepting small amounts
of cash from Martin, but was left basically unscathed
by the legal proceedings.
Not the case for Webber, despite Chris having been
especially close to Martin since his youth,
and prior reports of big money changing hands
nothing stemmed from his initial testimony
but in 2002, Martin finally plead guilty to charges
that included loaning hundreds of thousands of dollars
to Webber and others.
Federal authorities thus indicted Webber
for lying to the 2000 grand jury.
He initially claimed innocence
but eventually admitted to taking money and plead down
to criminal contempt avoiding a prison sentence.
NCAA and self imposed sanctions pushed
Michigan basketball to scrub its past.
The Wolverines officially vacated a ton of wins
from the Fab Five era, pulled down their final four banners,
and removed Webber's name from individual record books.
And there were future sanctions too,
a short post-season ban but also a 10 year dissociation
from Webber and three other players directly implicated
in the Martin scandal, no contact, no business, no nothing.
So yeah, the Fab Five legacy is complicated
and it's primarily because of Webber.
We should acknowledge that Webber's payment scandal
probably wouldn't exist outside and unjust system
wherein big time college athletes receive none
of the money that they earn for their schools but I digress.
Anyway, memories of the timeout didn't really dog Webber
once his career moved past the immediate aftermath
Webber became comfortable talking about it
he spoke to SI for a big feature just weeks later
and he didn't hear much about the incident
once he entered the NBA.
Partly because he became a star so fast,
partly because he found new drama in the Pros.
With time Webber and his family could laugh about
that humiliating final moment as a college player.
The Ed Martin scandal was a different story,
before confessing in his eventual plea agreement.
Webber was adamant about fighting the charges
and equally adamant in his disparagement of Ed Martin.
Rose and Webber had grown apart as friends
in different cities often do after college,
but Chris lying and then lying about lying was according
to Jalen the final blow to their relationship.
But they were still in the league.
Rose didn't broadcast his feelings
and Webber certainly wasn't gonna talk
about that stuff even years later
while signing with the hometown Pistons.
There are photos of the two of them together
during Webber forced dissociation from the school,
and they even appeared in some of the same t.v. segments
discussing the Fab Five's legacy.
While Rose insisted that no sanction could undo
the success of those teams he was clearly
bothered by the manufactured distance
and the fallen banners.
When the final four came to Detroit in 2009
Rose and Jimmy King pushed for a Fab Five reunion,
but Michigan wouldn't let them do it on campus
and Webber decided not show up.
And then there was the 30 for 30.
Rose produced ESPN's 2011 documentary on the Fab Five
which is excellent and worth watching.
There were rumors that Webber initially agreed
to participate but ultimately he was the only important
member of that team not to.
Instead the movie depended on the other four stars,
and Steve Fisher, and upper classmen like Rob Pelinka,
all talking about Chris and his mistakes.
Toward the end, a school administrator implores
Chris to apologize.
- Chris simply needs to acknowledge
that he made a mistake, apologize for those mistakes
and I believe that it would have an enormous
impact on our ability to heal this situation
and move forward in a very positive way.
- It feels kinda unfair but I mean that's what happens
when arguably the central subject of a documentary
refuses to be in it.
While Webber maintained his distance,
Rose kept the flood gates open.
In 2013, the Wolverines went back
to the national championship.
Rose, Howard, Jackson, and King planned to attend
the final against Louisville, and on a Grantland podcast
Rose begged Webber to show up too.
Chris was the elephant in the room making any
potential reunion weird.
Webber did show up separately while Rose, Howard, King
and Jackson cheered together in the crowd,
the elephant in the room was upstairs in a private suite.
Later that year Webber's 10 year dissociation
with Michigan finally ended.
But the banners remained in storage
and it was still Rose doing all the talking.
He didn't quite say Webber should apologize
but he did say how he would apologize
if it were him in Chris's shoes.
And on another podcast episode he and Bill Simmons
recounted Webber giving Rose the cold shoulder
at the NBA Finals.
In 2014 Rose kept addressing Webber publicly
as a sort of spokesman for the other Fab Five members.
Since the whole line up hadn't truly been together
since that fateful night in 1993.
And he went further in stating firmly
that Webber should do right by his teammates Steve Fisher
and the now deceased Martin and apologize.
In 2015, Dan Patrick finally got Webber to respond a lot,
he talked about the time out
and how it was addressed in the 30 for 30.
- I've always embraced the timeout
I know that the Fab Five documentary makes it seem
like, oh my God I'm so scared to talk about it.
- [Narrator] And he discussed that documentary as a whole.
- Did you like the Fab Five documentary?
- I love the guys and I just think it's just so much missed.
- [Narrator] He insisted he'd been down
to participate in the doc but that he'd been kinda ambushed
by the interview requests.
- They called and says, hey we want you to be in a doc,
I said, heck yeah I'll be in the doc.
(stutters) Well, what's going on?
He go, well we're wrapping up next week
we need to get you, I'm like wait a minute.
- [Narrator] And he insinuated that Rose had put himself
and his fame above the legacy of the whole Fab Five.
- A lot of people after they retire
or when they're looking for a job
or when they wanna be relevant.
- They embellish.
- It's really no, yeah and you know my whole thing is
it's always been about us five you know.
- That is a lot.
Jimmy King called the bit
about the belated interview request a flat-out lie.
And Rose came back swinging, I'm just going to read this.
One dude traveled then called timeout.
One dude lied to a grand jury and hasn't apologized.
One dude tried to circumvent the documentary to HBO
One dude ignored multiple request from everyone involved
after agreeing to participate.
One dude played like Obama and sat in a suite
during Michigan's recent title game.
One dude slandered Ed Martin after all he did
for him and his family.
One dude is not in contact with the other four
which is all good.
One dude has been doing a rebuttal doc for four years.
One dude clearly is delusional and still in denial.
So that is also a lot when it came back
to Chris is October 2015,
he was adamant that he didn't wanna
talk about Jalen anymore.
- [Doug Gottlieb] Where are you with Jalen
in terms of your relationship?
- [Chris Webber] Wherever it was.
- Wherever it was, I mean you know the last time--
- I mean Doug we ain't talkin bout that
you ain't getting that interview (mumbles).
I'm talking about Wake Forest.
I don't talk about him. I talked about him
one time on the Dan Patrick show and that was it.
- But by this time Rose was promoting a book.
A book that told stories of Webber snubbing him
and the other Wolverines during his NBA days.
Not calling people back, flaking on free tickets,
flaking on hotel rooms for his friends
when he made the All-Star team.
And about the documentary, Rose claimed he had
initial buy-in from Webber who then flip flopped
and decided he didn't wanna talk about his past.
Only to go pitch a separate documentary to HBO,
Rose even went into greater detail about the time
Webber cursed him out at the NBA Finals.
And finished a long section on Webber by once again
asking him to own his transgressions and apologize.
That really seems to be Rose's main issue in recent years.
He has blamed the continued burial of the Fab Five legacy
on Webber including coach Fishers lack of recognition.
Because he's on t.v. Rose gets asked about this stuff a lot
and he always puts the ball in Webber's court saying,
he's still haunted.
- I think that something that emotionally
still plagues him in a lot of ways.
Come home big fella the Fab Five brothers love you,
the University of Michigan loves you.
Let it do what it do.
- [Narrator] In the meantime he's out here
breaking the play down on national television.
Dan Patrick got C-Webb going again in 2018.
Webber said he talks to some of the other guys.
- I talk to Juwan like every freaking other day.
Ray and Juwan I talk to often
I haven't talked to Jalen in a while.
- [Narrator] Said his feelings about the time out
have been mis-characterized.
- This whole thing of (mocking) he doesn't know
he can't come back, he so hurt
about the time he's crushed,
and mentally he can't be with all five of us.
Like I don't, you know.
- [Narrator] Tried to explain his seating arrangement
at the Michigan Louisville Final.
- And everybody was saying,
well Chris went up to his suite he couldn't,
well on paper I still was banned from the school.
- [Narrator] And seconded Patrick's hopes
for a Fab Five reunion
but blamed Rose's trolling for the tension.
- Because I've been trolled, I think like no human
in the history of sports has been trolled
by someone that consider your friend it's tough.
- [Narrator] He also went on Sway in the Morning
and said something similar, that Rose had broken a code
by making their issues public.
- When he broke that code
to what I feel further his career that hurt me as a man.
- [Narrator] And regarding the trolling accusation
Rose insisted he doesn't wanna hash this conflict
out in the media then he hashed it out in the media.
- I don't need to talk about him to further my career
I don't sellout I am not a media shill.
I do not sell my soul in order
to talk about sports on television.
- [Narrator] And this response to Webber getting made
an honorary captain by Michigan football coach Jim Harbaugh
definitely seemed like trolling.
- I'm elated by this news, I'm not surprised
by this news, and respectfully it's calculated.
- [Narrator] And that's more or less where things stand.
Webber says he wants to reunite with the Fab Five
and get the team's legacy back on track
but he's kinda touchy and wants all that done on his terms.
Rose thinks all it will take is Webber apologizing
for his mistakes but he's definitely not catering
to Webber's touchiness about those mistakes.
It's frustrating that this legendary fivesome fractured
at what was once its tightest hinge.
But I have faith that these two will one day
put aside their differences.
They've both said that they could be friends again someday.
What will that take?
Maybe its Webber finally releasing a book or documentary
that tell his whole side of the story.
Maybe its Rose dialing down the heat a bit
or the university relenting in its erasure
of Fab Five history.
Right now as I speak to you, beef is keeping them apart.
But maybe someday, maybe by the time you watch this.
The Fab Five brotherhood will become whole again.