I'm gonna talk to great care he was my
friend Kyle's dad I'm gonna chat about
figures all right so you were chatting
to me just a minute ago about one of the
things you've been thinking about relate
to veganism to do with industry and how
there's a lot of money behind it and
would you like to maybe chat bit about
that sure I I think that my realization
is the veganism is a little bit like
fighting drug addiction right and and we
all know that people shouldn't be on
heroin right right but there's huge
amounts of money behind drugs behind
sugar behind alcohol that promote it
encouraged it stimulated right and so
veganism is really a grassroots movement
and there might be some culinary arts
behind it that will support it but
essentially you're fighting a behemoth
industry that that lives off of using
animals to produce food right right and
so you got a tough one
yeah I mean we we're against industries
of almost infinite well not finite like
money right in resources right and they
can put as much when they want into
promoting a certain burger and two
billboards and advertisements TV adverts
whatever it is mom so that presents
challenges but at the same time the only
reason these entities have all that
money is because of consumers buying
those products right which means that we
could take the money away from these
industries by not buying those products
and the more money we put into say buy
and be on meat or garden or whatever
substitute is the more money we put into
the vegan substitutes instead so there's
more people go vegan this shift of like
our imbalance of financial power will
will slowly change over time as well and
I guess in terms of for yourself like in
a personal level what is it this stops
you from maybe going fully vegan I know
you said to me before you don't you
don't you a lot of me and you know you
don't do a lot of these things but what
stops you from making that like final
push
I think at this point the difficulty of
accessibility accessibility you know if
I if I'm saying gee I I feel like I'm
hungry and I want to sit down yeah on
almost every corner is something that's
meat based absolutely and so I sit in
there and I say I'll have a salad please
ha ha well the thing is it's game so
much easy now they don't have to go for
salad but I guess the question becomes
like this is our convenience worth more
than the life of an animal like what
what's more and what's more important
convenience our life well it's that's
that's a concept that we can explore but
it's a little bit like what's what's
morally right vehicle driving down the
road or not sucking oil out of the
ground right right it's sort of like
well that's what we do yeah you suck oil
out of the ground so that we can all
have transportation but like II raised
cows so that McDonald's can make a
billion burgers in a year I think what
we both agree on is that neither system
is ideal right and we'd rather not have
oil-based atop the ground to produce
automobiles right corrode at the same
time you know there are alternatives
becoming known within the field of
vehicles right there's also alternatives
and you know when we come to he and me
so the question is you do we have to eat
animal products do we have to buy
McDonald's and do farmers have to raise
cattle no we don't have to okay so if we
don't have to how do we justify doing it
cultural cultural habits habits yep
taste taste drug addiction is addiction
yeah I mean there's something about
eating a piece of meat and walking down
the street and saying wow whatever that
is pumping through my veins that feels
really good yeah we do we get
satisfaction from it it's almost like a
dopamine release or something yeah do
you think that some like culture should
dictate the morality and what's right
and wrong
well which comes first the culture or
the morality morality or the culture
okay but what we can always admit that
morality changes over time where's Cole
trauma states quite stagnant and I think
that for me it's always morality
influences culture we look right through
you see Civil Rights influence the
culture of that generation right the
suffragettes influence the culture of
that time I feel like morality is always
leading the way and as citizens we're
the ones that define what that culture
should be I guess somewhere like in
let's say China where the dogs and cats
is that moral in your eyes is that
acceptable absolutely not okay no that's
the answer you're looking for but it's
what is not yeah I don't eat dogs and
cats um why would these dogs and cats so
what's the difference dogs rise why'd
you love dogs and cats but not love say
pigs and cows and chickens well I love
dogs cows chickens oh you'd love them
yeah can you love them if you eat them I
guess you know I I sit down with a calf
and I bet it I feed it and I say isn't
this beautiful right and then you know
and then I walked somewhere that's
removed yeah and I say can I have that
rack of ribs right it's exactly right so
there's a disconnect going on there is a
disconnect no it's a if I I say I love
dogs okay cuz I do now say if I got a
dog I rescued a Labrador from a shelter
would it be okay in your eyes if I then
cut the throat the Labrador to eat them
I don't know that the quality of meat is
as good as a good New York State well I
mean what about morality rather than
quality of of meats
well you've got a good point there you
shouldn't be cutting the throat out of a
dog get up yeah so morally what's the
difference between eating a pig Idina
dog well I think structurally we've been
set up to eat beef from all the
generations back though we haven't been
set up to eat some animals but the thing
is that's it that's a cultural thing
right unlike we set the ball in China
that even dogs for centuries probably
many many years but we don't believe
that to be true so
so even though we beat cows for you know
centuries however long it is it doesn't
necessarily make it moral today right
just because we did it for a long time
well I'll agree with you on that yeah so
if it's if it's not necessary today
right right it comes down to like
justification so culture shouldn't
define morality right we agree on that
right so let's look at taste this taste
is another big thing and we would like
morality to run culture yeah I mean like
we hope so we hope so I think both need
to be open to change right and what what
what we deem right and wrong now is very
different to what we used to do Ryan
right that's correct things always
change and I think it's some point that
we were remain open-minded to that
change because otherwise we've come fix
in these past transgressions right and
we never you know move forward as a
species so I feel like veganism is that
next step of kind of moral evolution if
you like because we establish that these
animals think and feel and our
preference to live right so I agree with
you so you okay great there's no
argument well let's look at taste cuz it
for me the number one thing always comes
down to taste that people always use
taste I asked this question I think it
was yesterday said what's more important
taste our life right and what what you
think is worth more your taste buds or
the animals life
well the animals life morally is much
more important than my taste right but
I'm hoping that that meal that I just
ate at the vegan restaurant yeah tasted
like me okay right right so yeah so you
want those flavors right right
so if we establish that life is worth
more than taste then when we buy those
animal products we're almost saying the
opposite though aren't we so would you
maybe agree that your life is is almost
in a state of hypocrisy because you
preach one thing but you live another
thing I don't want to admit that maybe
though it's a very good argument that's
not an argument it's a very good
question that you may be one to mull
over that's right right so if we could
give all the other two the taste that
you enjoy now from from animal products
begin in like a vegan version would that
be the push that you'd want - sure that
would that would that would make me make
the step
convenience convenience and those are
the two drawbacks that many people have
a you go to Whole Foods now you can get
a couple beyond meat burger you can get
guarde and you can freakin hot dogs and
get everything vegan cheese everything
right have you tried that stuff before
yes I have and what do you think of it
it still needs a little evolution but
it's good right so when as the culture
changes and as the that shift of
economics changes and as consumers
demand more yeah so the market will be
met right so the need will be met by the
market right and we'll see the
continuing evolution of veganism you
made a very good point is about consumer
demand and I feel like one of the one of
the drawbacks is we say like we want
these better products and we admit that
a consumers have to drive these bad
products but most of us would rather
wait for them to be in the supermarket
shelves now as a consumer yourself do
you thin and maybe you are the one that
has the obligation to buy the vegan
products now so they become more
accessible for everyone else yeah and
even if it's online or even if I have to
go to a specialty store yeah I'll make
that effort and even if they even if say
right now the beyond me burger for you
doesn't taste as nice as the burger that
you're used to eating do you still not
agree that even if you don't enjoy it as
much you should still buy that morally
over the other one yes so from now on do
you think that maybe you will do that
why do I feel like I just got trapped
sure sure
so maybe I'll take your 21 day challenge
22 days 22 there's 21 days to kick out
how basic an extra day on that too I
thank you to see you I needed that okay
lovely speaking to you only two days
thank you very much it's a pleasure
pleasure
oh that was so yeah I like you right
you