>> ARTHEL: YES, STAY RIGHT HERE
ON FOX.
>>> WELCOME TO THE BIG SUNDAY
SHOW.
WE BEGIN WITH A FOX NEWS ALERT.
YOU ARE LOOKING LIVE IN UVALDE,
TEXAS, WHERE STATE LAWMAKERS WHO
ARE INVESTIGATING THE SHOOTING
AT ROBB ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ARE
ABOUT TO SHARE DETAILS,
STARTLING DETAILS FROM THEIR NEW
77-PAGE REPORT ON THE SHOOTING.
19 STUDENTS IN ALL, TWO
TEACHERS, KILLED IN MAY.
AND THE REPORT IS ALARMING.
IT CITES SYSTEMATIC FAILURES OF
LAW ENFORCEMENT IN ITS RESPONSE.
SURVEILLANCE VIDEO WAS OBTAINED
BY THE AUSTIN AMERICAN STATESMAN
AND [INAUDIBLE] AHEAD OF THE
REPORT.
THE GRAPHIC FOOTAGE WAS EDITED
INTO SHORTER CLIPS WITH SOME
AUDIO REMOVED.
IT SHOWS POLICE RESPONSE THAT
DAY OR LACK THEREOF WHICH
CRITICS HAVE SLAMMED SINCE ITS
RELEASE.
THE NEW REPORT REVEALS THERE
WERE ACTUALLY NEARLY 400
OFFICERS WHO ALL RESPONDED THAT
FATAL DAY FROM FEDERAL, STATE,
AND LOCAL AGENCIES.
ABOUT 90 OF THEM WERE STATE
POLICE.
NEARLY 150 BORDER PATROL WERE
THERE.
ABOUT TWO DOZEN UVALDE CITY
POLICE OFFICERS AND MORE THAN A
DOZEN SHERIFF’S DEPUTIES AND
FIVE SCHOOL DISTRICT POLICE
OFFICERS.
THIS WAS UNPRECEDENTED FOR SO
MANY REASONS.
THE NUMBER OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
THAT ARRIVE ON THAT DAY AND THAT
POLICE CHIEF THAT MADE A FATAL
DECISION NOT TO SEND THEM IN.
THE POLICE CHIEF SQUARE ONE
RIGHT THERE.
THE QUESTION IS, SHOULD THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS KNOWN
BETTER TO STORM THE BUILDING AND
IGNORE THEIR CHIEF?
>> THE ANSWER IS YES.
EVER SINCE COLUMBINE, WE DON’T
WAIT.
I WANT TO BE CLEAR TO THE
AMERICAN PUBLIC.
98% OF LAW ENFORCEMENT DO A
GREAT JOB 24/7.
WE CAN’T EXCUSE THESE MISTAKES
THE OFFICERS MADE.
LET’S NOT FORGET THAT THE PERSON
KILLED IS THE BAD GUY, BUT THESE
OFFICERS’ FAILURE TO CHARGE, THE
VIDEOTAPE, IT’S INEXCUSABLE, AND
IF WE’RE GOING TO MAKE SURE THIS
DOESN’T HAPPEN AGAIN, WE GOT TO
MAKE SURE THERE’S POLICIES AND
PROCEDURES MANY -- PROCEDURES IN
PLACE WHERE OFFICERS HAVE A
MORAL OBLIGATION TO RESPOND TO A
PERSON WHO IS BASICALLY KILLING
INNOCENT PEOPLE.
>> A LOT OF THESE BORDER PATROL
AGENTS HAD CHILDREN IN THIS
SCHOOL.
THEIR OWN CHILDREN WERE IN THAT
BUILDING AND THEY DIDN’T EVEN
STORM IN.
I MEAN, I CAN’T IMAGINE AS A
PARENT, NOT A LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICIAL, JUST AS A PARENT, CAN
YOU IMAGINE THE PARENTS THAT
WERE SITTING OUT THERE?
>> I MEAN I REALLY COULDN’T.
>> I HAVE CHILLS THINKING ABOUT
IT EVERY SINGLE TIME.
IT IS SO HEART BREAKING.
>> YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THERE’S A
CHAIN OF COMMAND.
THERE’S A CHAIN OF COMMAND IN
LAW ENFORCEMENT.
THERE’S A CHAIN OF COMMAND IN
THE MILITARY.
BUT THERE’S ALSO SOMETHING IN
PSYCHOLOGY THAT’S CALLED THE
BYSTANDER EFFECT.
ESSENTIALLY IT MEANS WHEN YOU
ARE IN LARGE GROUPS, PEOPLE
OFTEN ASSUME THAT THERE IS
SOMEONE ELSE THAT HAS TAKEN
CONTROL.
WHEN YOU HAVE THESE DIFFERENT
AGENCIES, STATE, LOCAL, FEDERAL
LAW ENFORCEMENT ALL THERE, IT
APPEARED THAT UNFORTUNATELY
SADLY AND TRAGICALLY POSSIBLY
THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
SOMEBODY WAS WAITING FOR ANOTHER
PERSON TO TAKE CHARGE AND DIRECT
PEOPLE AS TO WHAT TO DO, BUT
LEO, YOU’RE RIGHT, YOU SHOULD
NEVER WAIT.
IF THERE ARE LIVES ON THE LINE,
AND YOU KNOW YOU CAN MAKE A
DIFFERENCE, APPARENTLY ONE OF
THESE INDIVIDUALS, ONE OF THE
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS INSIDE
HAD THE ABILITY TO TAKE THIS GUY
OUT, THE SHOOTER IN THE SCHOOL
OUT AND HE HESITATED AND WAITED
BECAUSE HE DIDN’T GET AN ANSWER
FROM HIS SUPERIOR.
THAT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE,
AND I THINK THE BEST WE CAN HOPE
HERE IS THAT THIS IS A LEARNING
EXPERIENCE THAT FROM THIS POINT
FORWARD, WE NEVER EVER HAVE TO
SEE SOMETHING THIS TRAGIC HAPPEN
AGAIN.
>> I MEAN, IT IS SO TRAGIC.
IT ALSO IS ANOTHER REMINDER TO
SCHOOLS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY
BECAUSE AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW IN
YOUR SCHOOL, I’M SURE THAT THEY
ISN’T OUT AN E-MAIL, ALL PARENTS
ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE SAYING
WHAT IS THE PROTOCOL?
WHY AREN’T THERE ARMED OFFICERS
AT EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL IN THIS
COUNTRY AT THIS POINT?
THAT’S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO
KNOW.
>> VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION.
WHAT MAKES THIS ALL SO
HORRIFYING -- WE HAVE TO BEGIN
EVERY CONVERSATION WITH THIS
THAT 99% OF COPS ARE GOOD COPS.
FOR THAT REASON, I THINK EVERY
TIME YOU HAVE A SITUATION LIKE
THIS WE NEED TO START FROM THE
STANDPOINT OF GIVING THEM THE
BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND THEN
FOLLOW THE FACTS FROM THERE, AS
I THINK WE’RE DOING HERE.
THE FACTS ARE LEADING TO A VERY
VERY DARK SPOT, OBVIOUSLY.
YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY DID THEY FAIL
TO DO THEIR JOB, AND YOUR
ANALYSIS, LAURA, ABOUT WHY IS I
THINK PROBABLY A CHARITABLE ONE.
BUT THE POINT IS, NOT ONLY DID
THEY FAIL TO DO THEIR JOB, THEY
PREVENTED MOTHERS AND FATHERS IN
THE CROWD FROM DOING THAT.
THEY ARRESTED THEM, DETAINED
THEM, AND PREVENTED THEM FROM
GOING IN.
AND THIS IDEA THAT THEY WANT TO
BLAME IT ON A CHAIN OF COMMAND,
I GET THAT, BUT AT SOME POINT,
YOU HAVE TO SORT OF ASK YOURSELF
THIS REALLY HORRIFYING QUESTION
RIGHT NOW, WOULD MORE CHILDREN
HAVE MAYBE SURVIVED IF THE COPS
HAD NEVER RESPONDED?
>> YOU KNOW WHAT?
THE THING THAT’S SAD IN THOSE
VIDEOS, I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR,
TRANSPARENCY IS IMPORTANT.
WE LEARN FROM THAT.
THOSE VIDEOS ARE DISTURBING.
ONE OF THE OFFICERS WASHING HIS
HANDS.
THEY ARE SITTING BACK.
THIS IS VERY DISAPPOINTING
BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T SHOW THE
LEADERSHIP.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT ALL
THE FACTS ARE OUT.
WE MAKE SURE THIS NEVER HAPPENS
AGAIN.
BUT WE DON’T HIDE THE FACTS FROM
THE PARENTS WHO ARE SUFFERING
AND GRIEVING.
>> THIS 77-PAGE REPORT BY THE
WAY, IT’S BASICALLY BEING LED BY
TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE, THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE
LOOKING INTO THIS SHOOTING.
THEY ARE GOING TO BE HOLDING A
NEWS CONFERENCE SHORTLY, AND
THAT’S KIND OF WHAT WE’RE
WAITING FOR RIGHT NOW, TO HEAR
MORE, BUT THIS 77-PAGE REPORT,
IT’S REALLY THE FIRST TIME THAT
WE HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN FACTS TO
BACK UP WHAT WE DIDN’T WANT TO
REPORT AT THE BEGINNING BECAUSE
OF COURSE YOU NEVER WANT TO
BLAME LAW ENFORCEMENT UNTIL YOU
KNOW ALL THE FACTS.
BUT THIS 77-PAGE REPORT REALLY
IS ALARMING.
IT’S DAMMING EVIDENCE.
>> HONESTLY IT GOES BACK TO WHAT
CHARLIE SAID, WE WANT TO GIVE
THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT
BUT WE HAVE TO TREAT THEM LIKE
EVERYBODY ELSE WHEN IT CAMS TO
FAIRNESS -- WHEN IT COMES TO
FAIRNESS, EQUALITY AND JUSTICE.
IF THE FACTS GO AGAINST THEM,
THEY HAVE TO BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE, NOT FOR THE ACTUAL
KILLING BUT THEIR FAILURE TO
EXECUTE A PLAN THAT THEY SHOULD
HAVE KNOWN.
>> THAT SHOULD BE THE CASE IN
EVERY TIME WE ASK IMPORTANT
QUESTIONS ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT
ACTION.
WE SHOULD BEGIN FROM THE
STANDPOINT OF I THINK GIVING
THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT
BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN IMPOSSIBLE
JOB, BUT FROM THAT POINT ON,
EVERYTHING HAS TO BE BASED ON
ACTUAL FACTS AND STUDYING --
INJECTING POLITICAL SLOGANS INTO
THIS STUFF IS HORRIFYING, AND IT
DOESN’T DO ANYTHING TO MAKE
POLICE BETTER.
>> RIGHT.
>> IT DOESN’T SOLVE ANY
PROBLEMS, AND OBVIOUSLY IT
DOESN’T FIX THE HORRIFYING
TRAGEDY THAT THIS IS.
>> YEAH.
>> AS BAD AS THIS WAS, IN THE
MOMENT AND ON THAT DAY AND
FOREVER CHANGED THE LIVES OF
OBVIOUSLY 21 FAMILIES, WHO LOST
LOVED ONES, 19 CHILDREN AND TWO
ADULTS OBVIOUSLY, THEY WANT
CLOSURE.
YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE ARE
HAVING TO RELIVE THIS I FEEL
LIKE EVERY TIME WE HAVE A
SITUATION LIKE THIS, AND WE WANT
TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT, BUT
I HOPE WE CAN DO THAT AND ALLOW
THESE PEOPLE TO MOVE ON WITH
THEIR LIVES AND HAVE A LITTLE
BIT OF CLOSURE.
>> YEAH, NO, ABSOLUTELY.
376 LAW ENFORCEMENT, I MEAN,
THAT IS A BIG NUMBER.
NOW THE QUESTION IS ACCOUNTABLE.
HOW DO YOU HOLD -- IT WOULD BE
ONE THING IF IT WAS JUST POLICE
CHIEF; RIGHT?
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT 376
DIFFERENT LAW ENFORCEMENT.
>> DIFFERENT AGENT AGENT SIS.
-- DIFFERENT AGENCYIESAGENCIES.
>> HOW DO YOU HOLD ALL OF THOSE
RESPONSIBLE?
>> YOU CAN’T BREAK THE CHAIN OF
COMMAND, BUT YOU SEE A
SITUATION -- ONE OF THE OFFICERS
WAS GETTING A HAIR CUT, HE HEARD
THE SITUATION FROM HIS WIFE WHO
GRABBED A SHOTGUN AND WENT IN
THERE.
I MEAN, SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO
MAKE THAT DECISION,
NOTWITHSTANDING THE CHAIN OF
COMMAND AS YOU POINTED OUT,
LAURA.
>> YEAH.
>> I GET A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT
THE DISCUSSION ABOUT PROTOCOL
AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, LOCAL
COPS ARE GOING TO WANT TO TRY TO
SHIFT -- I DON’T KNOW IF THEY
ARE OR NOT, BUT THERE BECOMES
THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER IT
IS THE LOCAL COPS’ FAULT OR
WHATEVER.
YOU DON’T NEED TO PROTOCOL TO
RUSH A BUILDING.
THERE ARE CHILDREN.
>> THERE ARE DYING CHILDREN IN
THE BUILDING.
THERE’S A BOY WITH A GUN, A
TEENAGER WITH A GUN.
YOUR CHILDREN ARE BEING SHOT.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
STAND BY AND WAIT FOR SOMEBODY
TO TELL YOU FOR YOUR HUMAN
INSTINCT TO FINALLY KICK IN?
>> THINK OF THAT SNIPER THAT YOU
JUST MENTIONED.
THIS IS BEFORE THE DUDE GOES
INTO THE BUILDING.
HE HAS HIM IN HIS RIFLE SCOPE.
RADIOS TO PEOPLE BACK HOME AND
THEY DIDN’T EVEN HEAR HIM OR
DIDN’T RESPOND OR WHATEVER.
AND, YOU KNOW, I GET WHY THE COP
DIDN’T TAKE HIM OUT, THAT’S A
PRETTY BIG DEAL, BUT THAT WOULD
HAVE PREVENTED ALL OF THIS.
>> THE ENTIRE SITUATION.
>> I THINK THIS IS THE HARDEST
THING ABOUT IT IS THESE OFFICERS
WERE OUTSIDE IN THE HALLWAY.
THEY HEARD GUNFIRE, AND THAT
SHOULD HAVE SIGNALLED TO THEM TO
GO IN.
THEY HEARD GUNFIRE.
>> THE SOUND OF THE GUNFIRE.
>> THAT WAS JUST UNBELIEVABLE,
UNACCEPTABLE.
>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS
18-YEAR-OLD WHOSE NAME I WILL
NEVER REPEAT OUT OF MY MOUTH,
THE 18-YEAR-OLD WHO WENT IN
THERE AND DECIDED TO COWARDLY
KILL CHILDREN, HE HAD A PAST,
AND THIS IS WHAT BRINGS UP RED
FLAG LAWS, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE,
HERE IN NEW YORK STATE, BUT IT’S
NOT BULLET PROOF.
YOU KNOW THIS.
>> TRUST ME.
>> RED FLAG LAWS, YOU KNOW, A
LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO -- IT
IS -- IT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT
WORKING, SO IF THERE WAS A RED
FLAG LAW IN PLACE, AND THIS GUY
HAD BEEN FLAGGED, HE HAS TO BE
CONSIDERED MENTALLY UNFIT TO NOT
BE ABLE TO BUY A GUN; RIGHT?
THERE WERE NO RED FLAGS EVEN
THOUGH HE THREATENED TO SHOOT UP
AND KILL PEOPLE --
>> RED FLAG LAWS ONLY WORK IF
FAMILY MEMBERS ARE HONEST WITH
EACH OTHER.
>> RIGHT.
>> THEY’RE IN DENIAL OF A KID
WHO HAS A PROBLEM.
THEY’RE IN DENIAL.
THEY DON’T WANT THEIR LAUNDRY
OUT IN PUBLIC, BUT IF THEY’RE
GOING TO WORK, IT STARTS AT HOME
BY BEING HONEST ABOUT A PROBLEM.
>> THEN DO THE PARENTS, DO THE
PARENTS --
>> EVERYONE.
>> SHOULD THE PARENTS BE HELD
LIABLE?
I’M NOT SAYING CHARGE THEM WITH
MURDER.
I’M SORRY, I’M A PARENT, IF YOU
DON’T KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOUR
KID IS DOING, AND YOU DON’T
REALIZE YOUR CHILD HAS SOME
SERIOUS ISSUES, THEN YOU ARE NOT
PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR KIDS.
TALK TO YOUR KIDS.
>> YOU CAN’T SAY A PARENT
DOESN’T HAVE SOME CULPABILITY.
>> I’M NOT A HELICOPTER PARENT.
YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE CHILDREN
ARE DOING EVERY MINUTE OF THE
DAY.
>> YEAH.
>> YOU CAN SEE SOMETHING’S OFF
WHEN THEY’RE NOT IN A GOOD MOOD
AND YOU TALK TO THEM.
>> YES, AND I MEAN I THINK MOST
PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOOKED AT NOT