-Our next guest is a filmmaker whose new documentary series
"Unprecedented" is streaming on Discovery+.
Let's take a look.
-The shot is beautiful, sir.
-Okay.
Can we get the orange out, please?
Is that possible? It's very orangey.
I don't know why that is.
-Please welcome to the show Alex Holder, everybody.
♪♪ [ Cheers and applause ]
♪♪
Thank you so much for being here.
-It's a pleasure. -So, you have made a few
documentary films before, and then you made this series,
which is -- Basically, you were with the Trump family,
the Trump campaign before the election
all the way up to January 6th. -Yeah.
-And I think one of the things people have been taken with,
who have watched this, is the amount of access you got
to the Trump family.
Why do you think it is that they agreed to it, and what were
the secrets you used to get them to make that decision?
-I mean, so I was originally introduced to them,
and then I think they were really confident
they were going to win the election.
So here was a guy with a funny accent that was going to
showcase them winning the 2020 election.
Also, I didn't really have any skin in the game politically,
so why not, here's a guy going to film us.
I don't think they planned the inevitable outcome,
at least I didn't expect it, so yeah.
-And you got to film in the White House, obviously.
What was it like?
I would imagine no matter who the president is, there are
some stresses involved with going and setting up
a film shoot in the White House.
-So, it was a remarkable experience.
I mean, to go inside, we take out all the equipment,
the dogs come out, sniff everything, eventually we go
inside to the residence of the White House.
This is the diplomatic reception room.
And none of the crew had ever really filmed
in the White House before.
And so we didn't know what the protocol was.
So, there's a few White House ushers that are inside,
and I start talking to one of them.
In the middle of the conversation, he just stops
talking and he looked like he was about to have a stroke.
I mean, literally, his eyes popped out.
It was just, like, suspended animation.
So I was like, "What's going on?"
And, basically, Michael, my director of photography,
had moved a chair, and the guy was like mouthing wordlessly,
like -- like, "You literally can't do this,"
and eventually he managed to get his words together.
And Michael -- he goes, "You can't move that chair."
So Michael actually puts the chair back, and he's like,
"No, no, no, stop moving the chair.
That chair is Abraham Lincoln's chair.
I mean, it was absolutely insane.
I mean, just completely mad. [ Laughter ]
-Well, that's Lincoln's fault for leaving it there.
-Exactly. Right. Exactly. [ Laughter ]
-You know, at some point, you know?
I'm pretty sure he has his own bedroom.
They could put it in there.
[ Laughter ]
So, one of the things that happened
that must have been surreal for you -- I imagine many steps
of this were surreal -- but the January 6th committee
subpoenaed your film, like you had interviews that, you know,
reflected different people's state of mind about January 6th.
And because it was subpoenaed, and because it turned up there,
you've been accused of being a spy,
that you had sort of implanted yourself in the campaign
for the purposes of this.
One, what was it like getting subpoenaed in the first place?
And two, how have you reacted to
some of the conspiracy theories about your involvement?
-I think I'm definitely the first spy
ever to be on this show, I think.
-Yeah. -It's not exactly good --
-Well, I'll say this, you're the first one who's admitted it.
[ Laughter ] -Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
No, I mean, the whole thing has been completely surreal.
I mean, when you get the e-mail with the subpoena attached that
says, you know, "Alex Holder, you're hereby commanded to
appear, you know, in the United States
House of Representatives," I mean, obviously it's a pretty,
you know, surreal experience.
And I think when I actually went into the hearing and --
So, it's in a private room.
It's the same room that you see
on all the January 6th clips they show.
And I was sort of pulling the chair back,
and I was thinking like, "What the [bleep] is going on?
I mean, this is absolutely crazy.
I mean, honestly, like it's just mad."
And then, yeah, I mean, I think all the conspiracy theories that
have come out have also been somewhat strange.
I'm an MI6 spy and I'm an undercover FBI agent.
-Right. -So, you know, I'm both sides.
-You wear a couple of different hats,
and that's what everybody respects about you as a spy.
[ Laughter ]
Very few people can do both.
The clip we showed where the former president comes in
and he's very taken with the floors --
He says, "Look at these floors."
That's at Mar-a-Lago, so those are his floors.
-Yes. Yes. [ Laughter ]
-And yet he seems very surprised and delighted
by the quality of the floors.
Were they great-looking floors?
-No, they really weren't. -Really? Okay.
[ Laughter ]
-I mean, Mar-a-Lago is actually very beautiful.
And the room that we were in was
actually a really beautiful room as well.
-It does genuinely look beautiful on film. Yeah.
-But, I mean, the least most beautiful thing
in the entire room was the floor.
So, he walks in, I go, "Hello, Mr. President."
And he completely ignores me and then goes, "Look at this floor."
And I'm like, "What?"
Of all the things to look at, I mean, there's this, like,
hideous painting of him from like 30 years ago behind
that's like an oil painting, which was, like,
the most eye-catching of everything in there.
But, like, literally, the floor of all the things.
Then he comes in, sits down, and then we start having
a conversation about the last time I'd interviewed him,
he was in the White House. And he says, "Yeah, but this is
much nicer than the White House, isn't it?"
I mean, that's the thing with Trump -- everything that
he owns, everything that he touches, everything that's got
his name on it is definitely better than anything else.
-Yeah. Well you haven't lived here as long,
but you might not know, he's mentally ill.
Yeah. [ Laughter ]
So that's -- that's what it is.
[ Cheers and applause ]
So, wait, you -- I do want to say, I know that you went on
this journey where you thought that he was lying about the fact
that he won the election, but over the course of
these interviews, you've actually come to believe
that he does believe that he had this election stolen from him.
-He's bat[bleep] crazy, the guy. I mean, there's no question.
[ Laughter ]
-But this was a journey you took, right?
-Absolutely. I mean, the idea that I would have had
a preconceived notion that he really believed in his own lie
before I met him was something that just is beyond
anything I could have comprehended. Right?
I mean, this is the President of the United States of America.
And when I interviewed him for the first time,
you know, he's in the White House,
all the apparatus of the presidency is there.
The guy with the nuclear football
is outside the room, right?
Secret Service is everywhere.
You know, "Mogul on the move." That's his code name.
I mean, it's all completely insane.
And he's looking me in the eye, and he's telling me --
this is after his own attorney general had said
there was no basis whatsoever
for any of the election conspiracies that he was
still going on about and still does go on about.
And so, he's looking me in the eye, and he's telling me,
"There's no way Biden got 80 million votes
and we need to reopen all the ballots in Georgia
to find these extra votes."
So, I mean, it was just crazy because at the end of the day,
if the President of the United States has come to believe in
his own lie, that's really scary and terrifying.
And so I remember, like, after he left, I sort of put my hand
on the wall, and I was like,
"Actually, I'm not going to think about this now.
I'll wait until I get back to the hotel"
'cause it was just too insane. But yeah.
-I wonder how many times someone has had, you know,
a private moment with the president and then just
walked out and put their hand on the wall...
[ Laughter ] ...and just, like, taking
a moment before going on with the rest of their day.
I really, truly hope you don't have to
make a sequel to this series. [ Laughter ]
But I'm so glad you made the first one. Thank you so much
for being here. It's really a delight talking to you.
Alex Holder, everybody.
"Unprecedented" is streaming on Discovery+.
We'll be right back with comedy from Hoodo Hersi.