People really want to know that this hospital will
be independent, it will be independent.
We will own the hospital.
We will own the land.
We effectively will through that 300 year lease.
So all the information is in the public domain.
Here we have the Constitution of the St Vincent's
Healthcare Group, which says very clearly.
St Vincent's Hospital founded by Mary Aikenhead, who was the founder of the Sisters
of Charity, ran, the Magdalene laundries, incarcerating thousands of women.
And this should be in the continuation of the fulfilment of this mission, etcetera.
This body is the body that will own the land, and it seems the buildings that
the National Maternity Hospital that's that's what lots of lawyers.
Secondly, not only do they have a relationship, and this is this is the point made
by the HSE people from the HSE board here Dramatic and Sarah McLachlan.
They have a landlord relationship with the National Maternity Hospital.
They also have three directors on the board on the board.
That's the ethos that they will be all right.
Okay.
Can I get one point is that the government is under pressure on the people.
Power is needed.
The protest at two o'clock.
Okay?
Very important people.
All right, so people can read it themselves.
Hildegard, that's fine.
And I think that point has been made clearly.
That's that's the opinion on government on it.
And this is this is a mess now, isn't it?
I mean, you've had government TDs contacting you about how to respond to this.
Is that right?
This is about optics now, OK?
It's not about the legal contracts.
I'm sure it is, but that's for better brains than mine.
This is about losing the room.
And if you do not have people with you and it is the taxpayers who are the
client here, uh, then you have to look at how that contract is set up.
I find it ironic that on the same day that the Children's minister had
to apologise in the Charlotte for all the illegal adoptions that took
place in this country under the auspices of yes, the state and the Church
on the same day in 2022 we are dealing with this stuff again.
No wonder women are distrustful.
We now have four men telling us everything will be found.
The T shock, the tarnished the minister for health and now the deputy chair
of Of one of the boards involved in this this morning on radio.
It'll be grand.
Lots of now we have lots of women.
There's lots of women, lots of clinicians, Ronan
O'Mahony, lots of women that - We have been told that and then there
are other people that are saying we're not quite sure.
And you know, the thing about it is if it is a feeling that people
are nervous about this and women are nervous about what's ahead,
what is the problem with having a line in the clause?
Because this clinically appropriate thing is getting to everybody.
That is an issue.
How about you?
That is an issue, and we're hearing that that is an issue tonight with your colleagues
and get the way I want to do with just because I get the way that they are saying
that that means you're not going to do brain surgery in the hospital.
I hear that and I get that we're not like we do get it, But But what is wrong with
putting in a line that says clinically appropriate as defined by the HSE?
You don't have to give a big list of procedures from abortion to, you know, zygote
implantation, you have to say, as decided by the HSE, not decided by that board
of whatever members are placed on it by Vincent's Hospital.
This is clearly the sticking point
on clinical appropriateness we keep hearing going.
It's a maternity hospital.
It's not for cardiac surgery.
It's not for other things.
It's for it's for women's health.
But it hasn't assuaged concerns,. It's really important
and I'm glad to give me the chance to answer it, and I get the concerns.
And these are questions that I had that I have got answered that I am now.
I'm clear that there is absolute independence.
Clinically, it's clinically appropriate and legally
permissible, so clinically appropriate.
Is that what you said?
It's going to be obstetric, gynaecological, neonatal, everything that
a maternity hospital should do, not as you say, you know, cardiac clarified
somewhere within within the Constitution from this.
Do you think that can be done?
And do you think that will be required in fact, to get this advice, the advice we
got that that if you start putting in a list there will be there, will there?
What could happen and what does happen in medicine is there
are new procedures all the time that could be added to.
As decided by the HSE Because the HSC wanted that in it
legally permissible means it's really important as well that the laws of this
land that have been passed I sat on the committee of the Eighth Amendment.
So I have,
I share the concerns of the women of Ireland.
I'm coming from that perspective.
I know the genuine concerns there.
There's legal protections here in the Constitution.
It is not.
There's no religious interference.
Alright.
Nuns have divested all of their shares
But the point The point.
Paul Murphy, the point that Paul was making was around.
You know, the the ethical guidelines, the ethical framework of Sister Mary
Aikenhead within the Constitution on this Paul very briefly.
All we have from the government, you say I'm going to
clarify the issues around clinically appropriate.
That's your word that's useless to people in 100 years.
That's also useless beause it's not contained.
It is not defined in the lease, is not defined in the lease whatsoever.
So you can have a dispute between the landlord,
which is pursuing the mission of Mary Aikenhead.
I want to come back and who's going to decide?
Okay, I want to come back to the sterilisations.
Currently sterilisations don't happen in Vincents.
Don't have current obligations.
Don't happen.
So I have.
Medics have said that that they actually do occur,
but the moment it certainly is contentious.
What's contained in the answer is that I have.
They only happen where it's dealing with another medical issue. Alright -
And we know we know that we know just just on this we know that the national
maternity hospitals defence of this is they make the decisions.
It will be the hospital, the National Maternity Hospital that make the
decision on this, but nonetheless will be from the same questions.
Priscilla, very briefly, the minister for health is before
the Oireachtas Committee on Health on this tomorrow.
Clearly, many questions still to be answered and plenty
of clarification needed if it's to be approved.
That's correct, really.
She needs that he needs to win the room.
He needs to convince people that there are enough protections in place
and that they can get this going because if we do see a stalling of
the project, it will probably be delayed for many years.
But obviously we have to do it correctly.
So there is an awful lot of pressure going forward, and I can completely
understand the concerns of clinicians because in the St Vincent's Healthcare
Group, previously, there would have been criticism over clinical trials
and religious interference and ethos and what not?
And we know as a country, we are quite far behind when it comes to certain procedures
in Ireland medical procedures because of religious, uh, interference.
But again, a lot of pressure tomorrow There is a lot of hope that
on the side of the minister that it will actually go through.