For the pbs newshour, I'm cat
wise in Buffalo, New York.
Judy: This attack is leading to
a renewed conversation and for
some self-examination from any
on questions of race, white
supremacy and extremist
ideology.
We are going to focus and some
of these questions ourselves
with Eric ward.
He has long studied all of this
and the proliferation of hate
crimes.
He is now at the southern
poverty law center.
And a writer, journalist and
historian.
Also the next Dean of the
Columbia journalism school.
Our conversation is part of our
ongoing coverage of race
matters.
Welcome to you both.
Let me start with you.
We heard that man at the very
beginning say we do not know if
there are any other haters out
there.
What is your answer to him?
>> We can answer that in the
affirmative.
I don't think unfortunately
there is any question when we
look at the connections between
what happened in Charleston,
South Carolina in 2015, what
happened in El Paso, what
happened at the tree of life in
Pittsburgh, what has happened in
Buffalo, what has happened any
other places I am not
mentioning.
Having covered and written about
this issue.
We can be fairly certain there
are more people of a like mind
who are out there.
The bigger question is, what we
as a society are prepared to do
in order to prevent these kinds
of atrocities from happening
again and again.
Judy: I went to ask you, Eric
ward because you have spent
decades looking at this issue.
Is this incident that we see in
Buffalo just another incident of
anti-black hate?
Is there something that stands
out to you about this particular
moment?
>> Yes.
It is a moment where we are
beginning to watch the unfolding
of mission oriented hate crimes.
These are not merely reactionary
hate crimes that we have
witnessed, the targeting of
minority communities.
This is an ideology that is
fueling this violence.
This violence is not an
aberration of the great
replacement theory.
It is a feature.
It is a feature that is grounded
in anti-semitism.
Let's be clear, this leaf that
by targeting and killing
African-Americans, that he was
engaging in were he believed to
be a jewish conspiracy.
We are beginning to understand
this underlying jewish
conspiracy called the great
replacement theory is
threatening not just Jews but
all of us.
What is most frightening is
elected officials are beginning
to mainstream and promote this
message in the halls of
congress.
Judy: Which leads us to the
question, why does it keep
happening?
The incidents that you named and
so many more in this country,
what is it that has gotten into
the psyche of Americans that
these terrible things keep
happening?
>> I think this is a much bigger
conversation.
We see mass violence happening
across an array of factors.
But most fundamentally, we don't
do anything after it happens.
We don't enact meaningful
legislation.
We don't have any significant
changes in policy.
We make dramatic public displays
of grief, at least are elected
officials do and effectively go
back to what they were doing
before.
I have covered so many of these
stories that I hate to sound
cynical but there is a
particular script we can expect
things to follow and the
trajectory of them and it stays
in weeks.
We will mourn.
We will grieve.
Eventually we will reseed to the
same sorts of habitual behaviors
that facilitated this.
Judy: Do you think we are going
to fall back into that same
pattern this time?
>> Regretfully, we will as long
as we continue to tolerate the
rhetoric that creates this
theory that js are somehow
secretly trying to take over the
world.
You have to push back against
this anti-semitism.
This white nationalist terror
taking place around the country.
We need government to step in.
We need business leaders to step
up.
We need community organizations
to be trained and prepared for
how to deal and manage political
violence.
This is not ending.
This is not an aberration.
This is a beginning of the
targeting of minorities to
overthrow American democracy.
Judy: What more specifically do
you think needs to be done to
get people's attention?
We talk about these incidents.
We covered them in the media for
a time.
As you point UT, they happened
again and again.
What different needs to happen?
>> One of the things I think is
important in this is if we want
to talk about what is different
because there is a long
tradition of white nationalist
terrorism and white nationalist
violence in this country.
If you want to talk about the
differentiating factor of the
moment, one is the access to
information on the internet and
social media.
We have to come up with some
sort of meaningful reform.
In some instances, it seems
social media is going in the
opposite direction of
responsibility.
We have to come up with some
sort of mechanisms whether that
be through private acts or
pressure from private groups or
some combination of government
relationships and oversight with
the fact is it is indisputable.
We have data that points to
people being radicalized,
indoctrinated via social media
and that is one avenue people
can take meaningful steps to
address at least as a beginning
to do something.
Judy: You are speaking about the
responsibility these big tech
companies have.
>> Certainly.
Judy: And the lack of
regulation.
Eric ward, is that -- is that
something that realistically can
happen?
I keep coming back to hearts and
minds.
People -- do we think it is a
matter of changing what is
racist in people's hearts?
Is it a matter of changing of
stopping that racism from
becoming these terrible acts of
violence?
Where do you see the stopping
that needs to happen?
>> I think there are three
things we can do immediately
that begin to send a message
that we are serious about
responding to white nationalist
violence and its threat.
The first is we can be
responsive to the community of
Buffalo, particularly families
and friends of those who are
survivors, of friends and
families they have lost.
That is a community where we can
make raise equity real and a
model for the nation.
We should take on that
challenge.
The second is local communities
need relief from federal
government.
Many local communities and
counties have been struggling
under the weight of white
nationalist violence.
They need help.
They need resources to be able
to respond.
The third is we have to have the
public will.
The truth is if we are able to
revamp the world economy in
three weeks to come to the
support of Ukraine I the
invasion of Russia, we can build
the political will hear if we
choose to be responsive to this
white nationalist assault.
Judy: Do you think that
political will is there and I
have to ask you both -- let me
ask you that first.
Is the political will there?
>> Certainly not on the right in
this country.
We have seen what were once
French politics come -- once
fringe politics become more
and more of the Republican
party.
That is something people will
have to speak more forcefully
about.
It does not seem to be high on
the list of priorities.
Address in meaningful ways.
That does not seem to be
happening.
I think at some point it is
possible these sorts of actions
will become so volatile and so
dangerous that it will create a
pressure for people to distance
themselves.
At this point, we have seen so
much of this violence, I don't
-- I cannot predict the scale of
the catastrophe that would be
required to make people begin to
think twice or to think about
this differently.
Judy: A very quick final
question to you both.
We heard people in Buffalo
expressing outright fear after
this.
What would you say to them in
this moment?
>> I think it is right to be
concerned.
But I think the object of these
sorts of behaviors is to instill
fear any these people.
The only way to proceed is to
recognize, to be vigilant, to be
aware of your surroundings but
not to succumb to fear because
fear is the ultimate objective.
>> Judy, this is our opportunity
to show the community of Buffalo
they are not alone or not today,
not this week or for the years
to come.
This is an opportunity to speak
directly to the white
nationalist movement by
investing in the best
opportunities in energy to ally
ourselves with those who have
faced harder in Buffalo, new
York.
Judy: We thank you.
>> Thank you.