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MIKE SPINELLI: Hey, welcome to Road Testament.
Today we're talking M cars, BMW's M5s and M6s.
The latest.
I spoke with Matt Russell at Laguna Seca for the launch
earlier this month.
And also Chris Harris obviously drove a couple of
those cars.
We're going to be seeing some clips from him.
And Nelson Ireson from Motor Authority is with us by Skype.
So hit us up on @drive on Twitter.
Let us know what you think.
And Nelson Ireson coming up, in a bit, couple seconds.
And now.
Hey, Nelson.
Good to see you, man.
NELSON IRESON: Hey, Mike.
Good to see you, too.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, I just saw you at Laguna, and your
review of the M5 and the M6 just went up.
Did you do those separately, or did you kind of conflate
the two of those?
NELSON IRESON: I put them together because the M6 is
like a smaller, lighter M5.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes, and so it was one of those track days
where we got to basically do lapping all day long.
And that's where we get to see who the real track whores, in
the automotive journalism field, are.
And you are, definitely sir, one of the biggest track
whores that I know.
And that's a good thing because it sort of gave you
some more perspective on those cars.
What are your first impressions of those two cars?
NELSON IRESON: First impressions are, they are big
cars, right?
That's the way all cars are going.
Look at the Scion FR-S. Subaru BRZ.
They're called super-light cars, and
they weigh 2,700 pounds.
That's what the S2000 weighed when it came out, and people
called it porky.
Perspective shift.
So these are big cars.
But first impressions, especially on track, is that
they don't feel like big cars.
And whether that's a perspective shift, too, or
just BMW's job in tuning the cars dynamically, I don't
know, but they really don't feel 4,000 pounds plus.
MIKE SPINELLI: So we'll go to Matt Russell now.
Matt talks a little bit about the increase in size of the 5
Series over the years, over the generations, and also what
the company's done to make it drive like a smaller car.
MATT RUSSELL: So with every generation of M5, obviously,
it's based on the 5 Series.
The 5 Series has grown to meet the needs of the customer.
The newest 5 Series is now the size of the 7 Series
from 20 years ago.
So we have a growing 5 Series.
We have a growing M5.
What do we do?
Well we maintain the balance, both static and dynamic
balance, that were introduced in the very first
generation of M5.
And we maintain that balance by using aluminum wherever we
can to try to preserve the 50-50 weight distribution.
The engines have gotten somewhat larger and heavier in
some cases.
So we have fought with aluminum blocks and aluminum
front subframes to try to move weight aft when necessary.
As a result, we still have a very close to 50-50 weight
distribution.
And of course, that static balance pays a really good
dynamic dividend once you're rolling on the track or even
on the back roads.
The M engineers spend a tremendous amount of time
trying to control the footprint of the car.
These cars are in development for five years.
And the details like the bushings and the tire compound
itself, it's not just your average Michelin.
It's actually developed with the engineers between M
engineers and Michelin engineers.
It's somewhat BMW-proprietary in its blend, inner, middle,
and outer shoulders.
We try very hard to keep that footprint under control.
These are larger cars.
They've had to grow.
And in order to still have the maneuverability, in fact, the
best that it's ever been, and the braking and acceleration
performance as well, we work on bushing tuning.
Of course, the chassis itself is stiffer than ever before.
It's stiffer than race cars of 20 years ago.
And so we try to capitalize on that.
Probably the biggest difference we've made, and the
reason we can rigidly mount the rear subframe into the
unibody of the car, is the damper technology.
Our ability to recalibrate the dampers on the fly and to
better control the actual movement, the vertical
movement of the wheel underneath of each of the four
wheels, underneath the car.
That would probably be the biggest, most recent major
advantage that we've had, or advance, that we've had in
terms of chassis and body control.
MIKE SPINELLI: So Nelson, what is an M car?
Right?
So that's the big question.
What is an M car to you?
NELSON IRESON: Well to me, an M car should be the ultimate
expression of BMW's best slogan ever,
Ultimate Driving Machine.
And that means not just on street, not just on the track.
It should be the perfect marriage of the two.
A car you can live with.
Taking the wife to dinner, picking up the groceries and
trail braking and heel-toe downshifting into turn two at
Laguna Seca.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, interestingly enough, that's
exactly what Chris Harris and Matt Russell
from BMW said too.
I put both of these clips together.
One of them is from Chris Harris' review of the M5 and
from Matt Russell at Laguna Seca.
Let's take a look at that.
MATT RUSSELL: Well for this program at Laguna Seca, like
we do for all of our programs, we bring the M3 along.
The M3 is the reference standard for everything we
know about chassis kinematics, driving dynamics, the way the
car is supposed to feel and behave, throttle control,
braking control, and everything else.
Modulation.
A lot of people, then, are able to drive the M3 and then
drive the M5 and M6 back to back.
And you'll see that that M DNA, just like BMW DNA, is in
each of the products.
Even if you go into the M SAVs, the X5 M and X6 M, just
ask Matt Farah, the M DNA is intact.
And you get that entire package.
You get very similar performance
in all of the cars.
You have more straight line in some cars, more braking in
others, more braking while turning in yet still others.
There are differences, and the character is a little bit
different in each one.
But the car will give you a very predictable experience no
matter which one of the M cars you get into.
You're going to have neutral handling, linear control,
incredible responsiveness, good noises, and really good
ergonomics and feel.
CHRIS HARRIS: The F10M M5 reminds us why we love this
particular recipe for a motor car.
It's quite simple really.
Take a load of power--
552 horsepower in this case, 502 foot-pounds of torque--
throw it in quite an ordinary looking body style, and you
have the car for every opportunity.
In a straight line, this thing will stay with very, very fast
sports cars.
And it's just as comfortable as a normal 5 Series.
It's just the perfect recipe for an everyday car.
MATT RUSSELL: Remember, in Europe, the M5 serves the
purpose of being a city connector on the autobahn.
We're going as far as possible, as quickly as
possible, and really as efficiently as possible.
The philosophy at M car has always been that if you had to
choose one car to live with for the rest of your life,
that has to do everything, that has to be versatile
enough to live with everyday and go to work and carry
clients, and yet you still want to be able to drive on
the back roads and the race track on the weekends, it has
to be an M car.
That could be an X5 M. Or it could be an M5 or an M6.
They're probably the very, very best at that.
And of course, the M3 for one person, maybe two people who
commute or go to work and then go to the racetrack on the
weekends, there's still nothing better.
So every M car does need to meet that mission.
MIKE SPINELLI: So Nelson, the idea of a usable track car
that's also a city connector, really, was something that
started in Europe.
And going back through the generations, obviously the M
cars have changed quite a bit.
What's your favorite one of the previous ones, and what's
your take on the evolution of those, the M5s?
NELSON IRESON: Favorite M car?
That's a tough question.
I'd have to say my personal favorite M car
is the E36 M3 sedan.
I like it more than the coupe just because it has four
doors, and it's still just as fast.
The linear power delivery, the sort of direct control feel.
Oddly enough, the gear shift feels exactly the same in the
E36 M3 as it does in the brand new F10 M5, which I don't know
if that's good for the M3 or bad for the M5.
It's just, for me, the full package.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well that may be the only thing consistent
in the past 15 or 20 years of M cars.
If you were to compare the last generation M5 to this
one, or actually if you want to go two generations, the E39
M5 to this one, what do you think have
been the biggest changes?
NELSON IRESON: Well it really all comes back to size.
The E39 was almost the same size as the current M3.
The whole line has just shifted up, just as the whole
industry has shifted up in size like that.
And that reflects in weight.
That reflects in wheelbase, track width, all fundamental
things that go into a car's both road
comfort and its handling.
MIKE SPINELLI: The Porsche 911 has had the benefit of being
its own platform for all those years.
These are cars that you have to start with a car that may
not have been designed from the outset to be
a sports car, right?
So you're beholden to what the market wants
out of these cars.
And what the market says they want, or at least the
companies have been responding with, just getting these
things bigger and bigger and bigger.
So let's take a look.
Actually, Matt Russell and Chris Harris, again, talk
about the original generation M5 and those that came after.
Let's take a look at that.
CHRIS HARRIS: Well there's the history.
This year marks 40 years of BMW M. In fact, I want to
drive all of the significant cars from BMW M this year.
So let's call this the first one of that series.
I love the fact that BMW was being beaten by Ford in the
European Touring Car Championship and
just said, stuff it.
And they stole all of Ford's good people, created this new
department, and built a legacy of amazing cars.
So I like the history.
The vehicle itself.
Well in 1986, I was 11 years old.
And when that car was launched, I was just about
starting to read car magazines,
building the obsession.
And I couldn't believe the spec on paper.
There was this saloon car that looked like a taxi, and it had
286 horsepower.
I remember thinking, well that's a
mistake in the magazine.
It can't have 286 horsepower, because in those days, that
felt like a million horsepower.
It felt like a bigger power figure than
a Veyron has today.
I love the engineering.
I love the fact it was hand built in Garching.
I love the fact that there were only 187 that came in
right-hand drive to the UK.
I love the fact that it's so small and it's only 1550
kilograms, and that even now, it feels as fast as it did
back in 1986.
I love the fact that it's built beautifully.
It looks great.
I love the shark-nose grill.
I love the Hofmeister kink.
I love all of the design cues because that era of BMW was
the era that I was in love with.
It was the one that captured my imagination.
As you can imagine, I can go on for hours about this car.
MATT RUSSELL: The original M5, the first generation, which we
brought to the United States in the 1988 model year, it was
the first, the real original bad-boy sports sedan.
And it brought with it a few key elements which have
remained in every generation of M5 since.
A very unique steering system.
We've had Servotronic vehicle speed sensitive steering on
every generation of M5.
A unique M engine.
We've had that in every generation of M5.
I think there's a feel.
There are the M seats.
There's a way that the interior is finished, with
more leather and reduced glare surfaces, like the black
headliner and the black dashboards.
So we have a number of key design elements, which are
functional first in the M5, that have always been there.
And we maintain those with very modern
interpretations now.
The first two generations were fairly constant.
We had two six-cylinder powered cars from E28 to E34.
The E34 had a more advanced suspension design and was
capable, therefore, of better overall performance.
But still, it was just a big, 3 and 1/2 liter or
thereabouts, six cylinder with, in this case, 310
horsepower in the United States and
eventually 340 in Europe.
Probably the most dramatic change in character for the
car came with the E39 M5 when we went to a large V8, a 4.9
liter V8, 400 horsepower, and really thereby, I think,
enhanced or advanced the character of the car, and also
the capability of the car.
We'd never seen torque like this in any M car before.
So that set a precedent where you had to have just huge
power in an M5.
And I think that challenged our chassis engineers at M to
really develop their ability to keep that power and torque
under control.
And so the chassis has really developed more drastically in
the last two generations of car.
The E60 M5 with the V10, again, big, big power.
The current car, the newest car, the F10.
Huge torque.
500 pound-feet from 1,500 RPM all the way to 5,500 RPM.
It takes a very special set of wheels, tires, which by the
way are considered to be part of the chassis system, and
then of course the rigid mount aluminum intensive suspension
as well, to try to keep all that under control.
MIKE SPINELLI: So Matt was talking earlier about the
increase in size, right?
And arguably, these two are the most capable--
well, by two, I mean M5 and M6-- are the most capable,
large M cars that they've ever made.
And there are very specific hardware elements that make
that possible.
The active diff, definitely.
The dampers, as Matt actually mentioned that.
And also the chassis stiffness.
Nelson, of those three, what's your take on how those have
made those cars easier, better to drive as big cars?
NELSON IRESON: Well damping is huge because it allows you to
bridge that sort of gap between comfortable on the
street and yet capable on the track because that's what
controls the relationship of the wheels to the body.
And that, really, is the heart of both things.
And that huge range of adjustment, the very quick
ability to adjust, is hugely important.
MIKE SPINELLI: The other thing is the active diff, though.
We talked a little bit there.
NELSON IRESON: Oh absolutely, yeah.
And the way it puts power down coming out of a corner is
really brilliant.
I mean, a well-modulated foot can keep the car just on
power, smooth, and straight out without going instantly
into oversteer like a heavily locking mechanical diff can
do, a clutch-type differential.
And there's no instance of inside wheel spin like you'll
see sometimes with torsions, especially in a heavy car
that's maybe less softly sprung than it could be,
lifting the inside wheel.
It's just a great example of how technology can improve
something that's so basic but fundamental to going fast on a
track, especially in a big car.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, and one other thing they're talking a
lot about is the rear subframe.
You could really feel the lack of twist or anything in there.
Is that something you noticed also?
NELSON IRESON: Absolutely.
More so in the M6.
The M5, maybe it's just because it's so long, you
don't really notice it.
But the M6 felt surprisingly crisp, especially running over
the rumble strips, things like that, that might induce a
little bit of shake into the car.
Just none of it.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
I was really disappointed with the last generation M6, and I
just always kind of thought of it as the '68
GTO of German cars.
This is amazingly different than the previous generation.
Obviously, if you're comparing the M5 and the M6, it's 4 and
1/2 inches shorter wheelbase.
And you're right.
That really makes a gigantic difference, especially on a
track like Laguna.
But the M6 is really much, much better, isn't it?
NELSON IRESON: It's light years better.
I mean, it's nearly as fun to drive on track as the M3.
It's not quite as quick and responsive.
But it's nearly as much fun, which definitely could not be
said for the last M6.
MIKE SPINELLI: Let's go back to Matt Russell.
Matt's talking about the M6, the new M6's positioning
within the M stable.
Let's take a look.
MATT RUSSELL: The new M6 takes all the muscle of the M5 and
all of the work we did to develop the M5 chassis, and it
puts it in an even more emotional package.
And it gives it a slightly more athletic edge, too,
because the car has a lower center of gravity, thanks to
its carbon fiber composite roof.
It's got a lower overall curb weight by 100
and something pounds.
The car is basically a more athletic, more agile version
of the M5 in terms of how it works on paper.
So we have the same power train, 4 and 1/2 inch shorter
wheelbase, when we switch to the M6 from the M5.
But all of the muscle is there.
All the chassis development is there.
The cars are developed in parallel on the Nurburgring
and all of our other test locations around the world.
Hot weather, cold weather.
They have the same cooling package.
So they're capable of basically the same things.
The difference is that the M6 is definitely a more emotional
package, and it brings that agility
of the shorter wheelbase.
MIKE SPINELLI: So all that's real nice, but we're talking
about 4,200-pound cars here, right?
So what's your take?
NELSON IRESON: For my taste, they could definitely reel it
back a bit.
But look around the rest of the really
high-performance spectrum.
I mean even the Aventador weighs a ton.
Well, two, actually, almost.
The ZL1, hugely heavy.
CTS-V, incredibly heavy.
E63 AMG.
They're all heavy cars because that's just where the
industry's gone.
What's magical is what they can do with all of those cars.
And it all comes back to things we were
talking about earlier.
The diff, the dampers, the chassis stiffness.
Now whether that equates to BMW having lost the plot, I
think that all comes back to sort of an ungrounded
perspective on what the M car is, right?
Looking back at old cars with modern eyes.
Saying oh, that M5 is so light.
Oh, it's so stripped out.
It's so minimalistic.
It doesn't have all these electronic nannies and
features because those things weren't around back then.
If they had been, they would have been
ordered the same way.
MIKE SPINELLI: You start with a platform that you have, and
then you can tune it only so much.
But this is where the auto industry is.
And I would stop short of saying they've lost the plot
because these are actually really great cars.
Do they have the feel of a car from 20 years ago?
Obviously not.
And nor does anything else.
NELSON IRESON: The cars of 20 years ago were really loud on
the freeway.
Even an M5, by today's standards, was really loud.
What you give up, you get a lot back in return.
MIKE SPINELLI: Nelson Ireson, always a pleasure.
NELSON IRESON: All right.
Thanks, Mike.
Good to see you too, man.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, no problem.
Don't forget to go to Motor Authority and read Nelson's
stuff, especially his M5, M6 piece.
It's very awesome.
Good to see again.
That's it for Road Testament today.
We'll see you guys next week.
Don't forget.
Let us know what you think.
@drive on Twitter.
Driveshirts.com.
If you want, not one of these, but a shirt with Drive on it.
All right.
I'll see you later.
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