- Today on the metal roofing channel
we are talking about standing seam metal roofing details
that use exposed fasteners.
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What's up guys, welcome to the Metal Roofing Channel
I'm Thad Barnette, make sure you subscribe if you're new.
We release me metal roofing and metal construction content
every Monday and Wednesday.
Well, we released a standing seam metal roof install series
and full video on Adam Mozella's house where we installed
a standing seam metal roof from start to finish.
And a couple of those details namely
the vented ridge detail, pipe boots and curb detail
had a handful of exposed fasteners.
And we got some comments asking why that is
and why those exposed fasteners were used on that roof.
So today we're gonna talk a little bit about that,
and explain why exposed fasteners are used sometimes
in standing seam metal roofing
what details you might see them on
and some alternate options as well.
Tell me out I have Dave and Jeff
from the Sheffield Metals Technical Department
Thank you guys for being here today.
Jeff, I wanna start with you.
Can you tell us why we might see exposed fasteners
sometimes on standing seam metal roofing systems?
- I think I'll start off by saying is that we try to limit
the amount of exposed fasteners
whenever we're talking about standing seam roofing.
Ideally it's considered a concealed fastener system
but some details do require exposed fasteners.
Probably the most common detail you'll see
with an exposed fastener
is gonna be a pipe boot penetration.
Are there ways to do bent pipe
without using a rubber pipe boot
or without having exposed fasteners?
There are.
Is it common to see people doing that without
using a pipe boot?
Not in my experience.
I think using a pipe boot is probably the most common way
to flash a pipe and therefore you're gonna have
those exposed fasteners around the base of the pipe boot
depending on the building that you're working with,
or the design that you're building
is really dictate how many details are gonna require
or could have exposed fasteners in them.
Things like vented ridges,
certain sidewall applications, things like that.
Exposed fasteners just gonna be the best option
for attachment in those scenarios.
So those are the main reasons that you do see 'em.
Again we try to limit them in all of our installation
details as much as possible but at the same time
sometimes they are the best case scenario
for use in the situation that you have.
One thing that you do have going for you at least
when it does come to expose fasteners
is that most of them can be painted to match a roof color.
So hopefully depending on the slope,
the height of your roof, things like that,
hopefully it will kind of get lost in the appearance
based on the height and slope of your roof.
- I think another important point here
with the exposed fasteners is they're used selectively
and most importantly in a smart way
within the building envelope.
There's a lot of ways that you can use
exposed fasteners incorrectly
in a standing seam metal roof installation.
- Yeah, no I think that's a great way to put it.
Again I think that's a very good term, selectively.
We use them as little as possible and we try to use
either folding techniques or pop rivets when applicable
for attachment and things like that.
But I mean, honestly we just try to keep most
of the fasteners hidden as possible
when it comes to the standing seam roof systems
but no, you're absolutely right.
You can definitely get a little crazy
when it comes to exposed fasteners
just because they're easy.
When it comes to attaching certain things
or getting things to sit a little tighter
maybe some things are a little looser than you want 'em
to be well, let's throw a fastener in there.
- So Dave, let me go over to you.
Jeff mentioned pipe boots already.
What about like the vented ridge detail
that we saw on Adam's roof or the curb detail?
Tell me why we see exposed fasteners there?
- Well, let's start out with the vented ridge.
So the vented ridge has a basic design
where we have a buildup of ventilation material.
The fasteners are selected because of the height
of that scenario.
We're coming up inch and a half to two inches
and we've gotta connect two pieces of metal.
And really the only way to do that is with the screw.
When we prefer to use a screw with a weather head
or a washer on it that would impede the water
from get infiltrating into the system.
There's not a bunch of residual water on a ridge.
There's not like a bunch of water
hanging out on the ridge where the EPDM
or the rubber or the washer itself
is going to be exposed to a long duration of water.
There certain neoprene washer screws that have a builtin cap
over the top of it they're called zacs.
That's a general term that just encompasses
a head on the fastener that actually
encompasses the neoprene washer.
And those are a little bit better fastener
but really what you're looking at is not exposed
to a bunch of water in a dense amount of water
so it's minimized.
Pipe boot similarly but we can't really call
where those are gonna be.
Those are predetermined by MEPs which is mechanical
electrical and plumbing where those are located.
And then the fasteners at the curbs
are generally at a headwall of a curb
and there's not a lot of water
that's going to keep running down on those.
There's not a lot of runoff from the upper section
of roof onto those fasteners.
It's a limited amount of water from the front edge
or the headwall of the curb down on the curb caps.
So there's not a lot of water
there's not a lot of exposure
there's not a lot of residual water
that's gonna be collecting around those fasteners
for the water to infiltrate the system.
So those selected areas perform very well.
They're not heavily exposed to durations of water.
- Are those exposed fasteners on the headwall of the curb
is that to keep it from being lifted from wind
- Philosophically, it does a couple different things.
So we have the front side of the curb and we use curb caps
and those get fastened down through.
But the flunk of the curb on the headwall section
is put in with two layers of of butyl tape
and cinched down with screws.
And with butyl tape, you always need a rate of compression.
You're always trying to compress that butyl
to provide a weather seal and that comes with fastening
to provide compression with that butyl tape.
- The one thing I wanted to mention about curbs and exposed
fasteners is when I first started in the industry
the main curb detail was to put a curb down and stitch screw
all the way around it all four sides.
So I think especially how the industry has changed
and when it comes to our curb detail
(indistinct) the exposed fasteners to just across the front
and then using a cleated or a hem system
along the sides and back.
Again going with the whole purpose of trying to greatly
minimize the amount of exposed fasteners that are used
when it comes to certain details.
I think the industry's going that way as well.
I think the curb details want in particular
that you can google it and see the changes
from what's being offered now
to what was being offered say 10 years ago.
- I've heard of a couple different ways that you could do
a vented ridge or some other types of details
maybe without using exposed fasteners.
If you guys are doing a weather type warranty project
would you consider an alternate option
if someone brings it to the table for you, Jeff?
- Yeah, so we're always open to new
or different ways of doing things.
I think a couple things to keep in mind
when you're looking at submitting details
like that is obviously one, isn't gonna be applicable
to the situation that you're doing.
Two is we tell people when submitting their own details
is if you look at our details you'll get a kind of an idea
of what it is that we're gonna be expecting
or what we expect when it comes to insulation details.
Fastener spacing (indistinct) obviously
proper use as a secondary backups
things like butyl tapes, things like boxing panels
things like that.
So we ask the contractors to keep that in mind
when they're submitting it.
If you submit your own detail
it's gonna go probably one or three ways.
Obviously one is denied.
We're not close enough to where we feel that we could market
up to where it would be acceptable to us.
Two is approved, "You know what, this looks great
let's go ahead and run with it."
Or three and probably the most common scenario
is well, we can approve this, but we'd like you to do
a, b and c as well.
We try to work with contractors especially in scenarios
where they have a detail that their guys are used to.
This is the way all their crews do it.
One of the benefits to that for us is that,
those contractors are comfortable with that detail.
So it makes it a little easier when getting things right
and having the proper details that we agree
to be in installed correctly on the job.
Our details are pretty standard.
We didn't try to recreate the wheel with anything.
It's pretty common in the industry, the details we use.
But again, like I said, we're always open
if you have a different idea and that you like to submit
we'll definitely check it out and talk to you about it
and see if we can get it approved to be able to be used.
- And every scenario is slightly different.
And so when we look at a detail we consider a lot of things.
We consider ease of install.
If you're working on a 12:12
the ease of install is super important versus on a 2:12.
So it has to be a good install.
It's gotta be weather tight or water tight.
The economics of it, how is it gonna be performed?
How's it gonna go in?
We've established a system
where most of the products are very common.
It's common in our industry to have a metal,
it's ventilation material and those things screw together.
So it's not uncommon.
It's not out of the ordinary.
And these are all things that we consider.
How long is it gonna be to take to put on?
If I say, "Hey, I think this is gonna take a
whole lot longer to put on than our system."
Make sure that makes sense to you.
And they kind of backtrack a little bit
and they say, "Oh yeah, you might be right."
A lot of times they say I'm wrong.
And so they will experiment with it.
Why don't you go ahead and mock up a sample
and take some pictures and send it to me.
Let's see how that looks and how that's gonna perform.
Nothing is thrown out the window right away.
Let's take a look at it.
Let's make sure it makes sense.
And we'll go down that path.
- Alright Dave, Jeff, thank you for the information.
Really appreciate it.
Hoped you learned something.
Hope this cleared things up a little bit
about exposed fastener and certain details
of standing seam metal roofing.
Comment down below if you have any questions.
Subscribe here to the Metal Roofing Channel.
And as always I'm Thad Barnette
and we'll catch you next time.
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