You're born Christian? Yeah I was I was Christian, Christened Christian
yeah and where do you find yourself now
I was telling as I was telling him I'm at a junction where I'm just open-minded um
trying to find my direction then what do you understand what I'm saying yeah yeah yeah and
and that journey have you looked into Islam, of course, you've got a Quran today and um I have
not exactly but um he give I will read the Quran I would read and what do you know anything about
Islam already anything at all that much not much okay I'll tell you nothing yeah and and where did
you sort of find yourself leaving the traditional sort of practice of Christianity and looking for
for the truth essentially because you say you were looking for the truth and did you not find
that when you were you know a Christian or if something's not settled with you um um there's a
lot of discrepancies I would say um you know with regards to the Bible I mean you know you know yeah
and then you go to your pastor and you ask questions and what is said to you is that only
God knows that you know this this kind of thing so but I'm I'm quite a logical person I'm quite a lot
and you know we have these minds for a reason God gave us minds to use and and to be able to sort
of understand the world around us and of course our purpose and who he is as well ultimately uh
and one thing you'll find in Islam is the the foundational beliefs of who who is God uh what
is our purpose and all these sort of things make sense naturally just settle in your heart uh where
when we try to speak to Christians about uh the concept of who God is and you have that triune
concept from the trinity which fundamentally is a is a hard thing to understand it's a it's a it's
trying to squaring a circle you know how three and one and one and three and a whole confusion in
Islam it's very straightforward we believe God is one in every way shape and form he's indivisible
nothing created him he's uncreated and he has no offspring okay he has no children he has
no uh daughters or sons we are his creation the messengers out there as guidance for us on how to
live our lives for each person so each people were sent a messenger Moses came to his people and and
so on and so on and the final one is the prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him who came to the whole
of mankind because Jesus did he didn't complete his mission when he didn't complete his mission
of course he still is still going to come back on earth you know and he said to his disciples I have
many things yet to say to you but you can't bear them now okay okay with that so where does where
does Jesus then fit into Islam so for who if I was to ask you do you view Jesus as as God himself or
do you view him as a person sent by God well you see in Christian belief and you know that yeah
I should say it goes back to the trinity again where they say that God when you have like God the
father God the holy spirit and God the the son yes and um so then you're meant to believe that Jesus
is a representation of God but yet God himself that again is kind of confusing exactly it's
apparently because even in the Bible if we read the Bible Jesus prayed to the father absolutely
so you know he called upon the father hell upon the father for help and when he was about to be
crucified God went to the garden of Gethsemane and he prostrated to the father you know the many
many examples where he lived his life as a servant of God as like as a messenger like Moses
and Abraham came with a message for his people uh and never he always pointed to the father for for
uh in terms of worship he always said I'm the way and the truth and life no one comes to the
father except through me yeah okay yeah so he was always directing it towards the father who is the
called in the Bible as the one true God okay but for us we don't take the Bible as a as a means of
guidance why because like because if you look at the Bible and you look at the discrepancies
within the current Bible we have today and you look at the way it's been uh transmitted to us
from Jesus Christ this there is nothing from the lifetime of Jesus Christ in in the manuscript
there's a lot of gaps there's a few gaps you know if you look at even manuscripts
and the first one is about this big it's called p52 is about two centuries almost two centuries
after Jesus Christ and then there's many other discrepancies that you as you go through the
history of it that's one thing but then if you open the Bible and you see contradictions you see
uh even for example the death of how of Judas you know yeah there's different different accounts of
it so and then it's still the God is supposed to be you know this is meant to be the word of God
and God can't make mistakes like this you know to make things in errors within the Bible so we
don't accept it as a means of guidance because it hasn't been preserved the Quran however differs
from the one you're holding it differs massively from the from the uh from the Bible in that sense
why because we have the the original train chain of transmission from the prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace
be upon him through the companions we have manuscripts such as this one here
which was found in Birmingham okay this was in 2015 they found it in their archives okay
and they carbon dated this to the lifetime of the prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him
close to a couple of decades after the prophet peace be when he was alive
and the Arabic on here is identical to the Arabic that we read today the same surah the
same chapters so he's been preserved millions of people have memorized the original Quran
in in arabic how many people have memorized the Bible in aramaic
do we even have an aramaic Bible that Jesus spoke we don't so it's important to know these things um
but that's one part of it obvious preservation because if I give you any book and say the word of
God are you going to start following it no you use that mind thing let me let me critique it and say
okay are there mistakes inside it doesn't claim to be the word of God all of these things okay
so the Quran has all of those preservation and then it has miracles scientific facts mentioned
in over a thousand years ago you know the prophet Muhammad ﷺ was an unlettered person he's producing
such a rich literature and poetry that people are in incapable of reproducing so these these
things are all there and then the belief system you know we believe God is one okay we believe
God is one uh we believe what he created us to worship him in this life and that's our means of
salvation we don't require a human sacrifice to be saved this is a pagan pagan tradition the pagans
that's that's the next thing that's confusing about the Bible because it criticizes
sacrifices and then yet we have the sacrifice sacrifices even before Christ we had animal
sacrifices and then we have the Jesus himself so and then he's supposedly good you know they
think the confusion that how is God sacrificing himself to himself you know you find yourself in
a how do I how do I sort of compute this in my mind and and accept it in Islam is simple you
are accountable for your own actions you're not born into sin as child is born sinless because
how can but the Christian teaching is that we're born in the synagogue exactly because it says
the Bible says again because of Adam and eve something that always I remember because trust
me I was a really like serious young guy because my I guess you're wearing a cross of course
yeah my uncle was my uncle was one of the main pastors in the church that I grew up my wow auntie
elder because I grew up with my aunties uncles you know my mom was overseas you know Caribbean
island your parents go overseas to make a better life left with your grandparents and then you end
you know with uncles and people yeah and yeah so so I was you know and one thing that was always
said that um we all come short and so and that that was taken back to say that we are all born
interested in the scene and so you know so look we believe that you are accountable
for your actions I why should you and me be accountable for Adam and Eve how is that fair
that's the next thing I thought of you know honestly honestly I was like that's unfair
I always say that in my mind that's unfair why where for okay one man one woman
transgressed and then just automatically then the rest of the world has to pay and bear the burden
until the until the end of time ever all the women are born uh sorry are punished with the pain of
childbirth yeah because of eve's actions and men go after you have to go out and work and sweat and
by the sweat of thy brows yeah yeah exactly for the for the actions of Adam how is that fear
where is the mercy where is the love so we say God forgave Adam and Eve and that was the end of
the matter you and me are born sinless okay and we are accountable for our own actions okay and
our salvation is through the obedience of of the guidance that God gave us because so God gave us
he gave us his life he gave us all the blessings we have in this life he gave us a framework as
well that you hear the do's and don'ts who is the system you're living in this life is a test do xyz
and you'll be successful stay away from xyz and you'll be good you'll be successful okay it's
it's for our own benefit if we were all evil it wouldn't harm God in any way if we were all
angels it wouldn't benefit him in any ways for our own sake okay now if we follow that guidance we'll
be saved on the day of judgment and that guidance just like for Moses was the Torah to his people
and then Jesus came to his people the prophet Muhammad ﷺ was lost in that succession
he came with a message not for a group of people he came with a message you made a very important
point when you say not for a group of people that's the next thing I find that was confusing
and unfair again when God when you say that Jesus was sent for a particular people the lost ship of
israel israel and then everybody else was bad and then it justify you know okay this is my people
I'll protect my people but the other people you can destroy them and that's I find that crusades
and many of things yeah nice and honestly so these are that's the question that was raised in my mind
so in Islam look if you if you if you go have you ever seen uh Saudi Arabia mecca have you
ever seen a video of it I mean I was so brought up into like the Christian Christian faith yeah
it because Christianity teaches you that this is it and this and you should not even venture into
anything you shouldn't even find the world don't think or just
bring into your mind any other religion because it's bigger that's that's the irony is that
they the rituals and that you're finding a lot of Christian rituals have their roots in paganism you
know Christmas Easter eggs I learned that Easter everything it's all pagan you know men think so
um when you when you look at Islam on the on the contrast of that it brings the original message
what Jesus and Abraham and Moses came with worship one God do not worship the prophet
Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him do not worship any other creation only worship the one that created
you like every other messenger prophet uh prophet did they all came with that core message if you
want to be saved on the day of judgement follow this guidance worship God purely and you will
be saved on the every single Muslim we believe who dies as a Muslim will enter into paradise
this is the means of salvation no human sacrifice no unfair punishment for your for your father's
crimes nothing like this because how can God who is just legislate something which is unjust
you know and where is the justice I'm just going to ask you here as well where is the justice in
an innocent man Jesus Christ being punished for the crimes of the guilty us he's innocent why
is he suffering the punishment on the cross you know and not only him but God himself in one way
so that concept of this crucifixion of all of these core fundamental concepts
and then obviously the preservation of the Bible where it all comes from really makes
a person question the core foundations of that belief because you say you're a logical person
you know you and I and I see you you seem like a sincere person who's looking for the truth
and I'm sure you will you will find it in Islam without doubt because these things which I've
told you here anything which I've told you about Islam so far I know you I'll want to research etc
does your heart reject any of it no no no no I'll be honest with you
and I'm very I'm very honest and straight up when it comes to these things like like with my heart
if I if I if I don't if there's a contradiction that I or anything I will tell you hundred percent
because it's better to be straightforward and open with your heart if you want the truth yeah
yeah and the Quran another thing the Quran says Allah says in the Quran if this is from anyone
other than God then find a contradiction in this book it's been a thousand years
not a single person can find a contradiction in the Quran not even one it says if this is
from anyone other than God then produced a chapter like this not not a whole book just a chapter and
the arabs which is their language they have not been able to meet this challenge why because it's
miraculous it's something different you know how it was revealed over over multiple years
and there was not a single contradiction you know that's amazing in and of itself
um and it makes predictions of the future and it makes all of these qualities that the
word of God should have inside it are present within this text once a person can can sort of
prove that this is this is worthy of being the word of God then you can open and say okay
now I'm going to take guidance from it you know just following something without it qualifying
it doesn't make sense so I mean for you who seems like a person who's looking for it
when you when a person accepts Islam okay you don't lose Jesus Christ
we love Jesus Christ a Muslim is not a Muslim if you reject Jesus Christ it's a pillar of our faith
okay every we believe in every prophet and messenger Abraham Moses Jesus David Solomon all of
these prophets and messengers the best of mankind we have to believe and accept every single one of
them we don't reject a single we don't reject a single prophet okay so Jesus Christ uh you retain
that love and and what you know about him in fact what Islam will do will come and correct some
things which have been introduced into uh uh or attributed to him okay yeah uh so we view him as a
messenger and prophet to your question you asked how do you view Jesus Christ we view him as a
messenger and a prophet who was sent to his people and we believe he will return as well to complete
the rest of his mission on this earth yeah and the prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him
is a final messenger okay okay do you have any questions about Islam I know you went around
you are quite very clear and precise and I like that yeah yeah and no question at
this point but what I will do I'm the type of person I sit back I would read excellent
I would read I would absorb everything answer any question that comes to my mind then what
exactly we're here anyway but if we're here every Saturday one to five uh-huh or you pop
onto Instagram you pop us a message over here okay once your message foundation on Instagram we have
a team of admins there that will pick up your message either myself or some others will pick
it up um and then we can continue the dialogue on there if there's anything which sign if you find
oh he said this on the day that's not quite true whatever always happy to sort of be corrected not
a problem okay but at the same time if you find if you find that it all settles your heart makes
sense to become a Muslim is a belief in the heart and there's no one worthy of worship except God
and that that Abraham and Moses and Jesus are all the messages of God okay and the prophet
Muhammad ﷺ is the final messenger of Allah okay um and if a person believes that in their heart
they say as the testimony of faith the shahada okay which I think you've got online as well and
then they live their lives as a Muslim you know the beliefs of a Muslim are these six pillars of
belief oh yeah right on this side of the are the beliefs of a Muslim we believe in Allah
God essentially that he's one we believe in the angels his creation the holy books the original
Torah the original uh uh in jill uh we believe in the prophets of God belief in the final day
the day of judgement okay in the hereafter and divine decree okay and like when you when
a person becomes Muslim they have these they do these uh you know these are actions you pray you
give charity perform pilgrimages you're able to and faster in the matter so this is the framework
and and this is really you know the salvation is salvation ultimately is from the mercy of God
ultimately it's from the mercy of God we can do all of these things but we will always know that
fall short because we're human beings it's through the mercy of God he will enter us into paradise
if we only worship him alone and no other human being that would be a means of salvation thank
you not a problem I'm going to give you one other little thing here and in fact I'm going to give
you a different Quran actually if you're okay with you yeah I'm going to give one of these ones okay
one of these I'll take this one away from you, okay this one has appendices at the back okay
which talk about um preservation of the Quran which talks about the manuscripts regarding
the Bible as well um scientific facts within the women's rights many other sorts of things
which you may find interesting etc... it's all comprehensive with all within here in the appendix
as well as the whole Quran is the rest of it as well okay and I'll give you a little bit for the
prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him so you've got some reading material there to do okay and um if
you have any questions you can always definitely hear from me because I would have questions