Film Courage: Why is Hollywood so difficult to pitch?
Peter Desberg, Writer/Professor/Psychologist: The biggest thing is it's expensive to do a project so
the risks are gargantuan. We joke about trying to pitch to somebody who has the power to say maybe
and it's just we find it hard enough to sell a book
and when you're talking about even a small film much less of a
big film they're just one mistake your career is pretty much defined well it's not upward
Jeffrey Davis, Writer/Professor: Until you're established. I will say the upside of this is
yes it's has been hard. I don't think that's changed from my Dad's time or that generation.
The thing that was great during the studio system which predates my father is that it was like
you were hired and you were guaranteed work you were under contract. Everybody is freelance now
and I'm talking about people above the line, not the unions they're always going to work people
in post-production like my brother who owns his own company they're always going to work
I think the good news is that I mentioned Apple earlier Apple Hulu Netflix when they
come out of this problem which they inevitably will Amazon they're providing new markets and
new places and they're you still have to have someone go in with you who's
I think the trick is to go in with somebody that they want to be in business with and that's true
in any business I think now then then there's also the the idea that everybody that you're
pitching to for the most part consider themselves an expert I will say that in television now
whatever form streaming Network that the producer has less power than that than in movies because
as the director does because most directors in television are hired it's the writer who has the
power finally and especially the showrunner yeah and and that's a good thing and I think
sure if I'm pitching a group of Hollywood Executives versus let's say a group of Auto
Executives is my pitching style the same I know you gave the story of the the Hawaiian shirts and
maybe maybe not showing the same respect but but let's suppose I'm showing them respect I
come in dressed appropriately is the style any different well there there are areas that are
very similar and areas that are not I think the expectations are different for the the
two environments but but in each case it's we'll start with First Impressions the way you walk into
a room is gargantuan it's like by the time the doorknob is being turned you're already you're
being evaluated there was a an incredible research study where they looked at music students
who were doing recitals and the first thing they looked at was how do they walk on stage
now in this study on when you're when they bring in test audience if
test audiences for sitcoms and they had their holding dials if you turn them this way we like
it this way we don't like it and the more I turn the more I like it or don't and it's continuous
that's what they were using to evaluate and the way they walked on right away huge
and it lasted for several minutes the effects of it somebody walks in kind of mousy doesn't
make eye contact they walk in with shoulder back big difference before they play a note
they also looked at when they screwed up if they reacted badly if they're playing in
or I just loved who cares big difference in terms of a big dip if you show it
so those things start to matter simple things like eye contact gargantuan again if you're
dealing with one person as sort of a rule from the research fifty percent eye contact is good
if you're looking at somebody a hundred percent of the time it's a lab experiment
and we're waiting for them to tear the Wings off the Flies if they never look then
it's what's the matter with this person it's kind of creepy if you have a group of people
you look at everyone you make sure even if you're looking at the cheese a little more
the person in the corner that you never look at because he's an underling well later when
they have a meeting and talk about you is going to skunk you because you insulted them so that starts
to make a difference all these things start to make a difference whether it's in Hollywood or
whether it's in business yeah now the you were asking why is a Hollywood pit so difficult again
you start off with the idea of you should have an original idea
but not too original because if nobody's ever done it there's a skepticism of this is such a
great idea in a hundred years how come nobody's this is a losing idea so you have to tread very
lightly here and again how much confidence there's there's a there's a Continuum of
confidence to arrogance to fear and you have to find a really comfortable place along there to do
it now another thing tell me when you want me to stop because this this can go on for a while but
I think oh I just had one thought a gender confidence Styles and I don't mean to go too
much how do you mean female director if if a woman is is too confident do you think maybe
she'd be seen as a little aggressive I think that's changed I would agree with Jeffrey that
it's changing but for openers remember that the gender issue is from both sides
does a woman walk in with an expectation that I'm not going to be taken as seriously or I have
to prove myself harder that's an issue that you may or may not have and again the people
on the other side now it's interesting because there's a phenomenon called stereotypical threat
and again they do studies where if white and black kids take the same exam
and they're asked to indicate their race on the paper black students will do worse than
white students in a math test if they're asked at the end that difference is washed out if it's
whites and Asians the Asians will do better if they're asked those things at the beginning not
at the end so people walk in thinking I'm how am I going to be looked at and so if you're a
woman and you have total confidence in yourself you're still aware that the way you're looked at
you bring what are you bringing in there with you do I have to do more because
Etc et cetera et cetera we bring issues in with us yeah but then there's there's just I'm sorry
just one more big overriding idea about about in general is that there's an expectation when you
walk in to give a pitch that you should be pretty good at this because you've had time to prepare
and you're an expert in what you're doing so you should be dazzling that's kind of a heavy
responsibility to walk in with it's people people say to me sometimes when I have to get up and talk
in front of a group I'm scared pointless but if I'm asked answering questions to the same group
I'm really comfortable and again it's the idea of expectation if you've had time to prepare a you
you should be an expert or why are you up there and then if you're an expert and you've had time
to prepare you better have something pretty good for us which is different than just being asked
off the cuff so again if you're if you're in the middle of a pitch meeting and somebody says you
know I like your idea it's very nice but we just got this novel would you be interested in doing it
what would you do with it that's sometimes easier to do than a pitch you brought in because you
don't have the expectation of you've prepared this already this better be good does that make sense
it does I also think that it depends on what level in any business you're in if you're Shonda rhymes
and you walk into a room you were asking about women so arguably the most successful
female show runner maybe in the top 10 of all time because show running is a relatively new
phenomenon and now they come to her and she decides if she'll do it or not but if you
read about her and you read about the struggles she had not only as a woman but as a black woman
it it she really had to work her way up and the thing I would add to all of this which
was great is that what I've found when I've been pitched to because I've produced things film and
and theater it's all the same thing is you've got to be yourself if you try to come in with a
kind of false self if you're presenting a persona that'll turn people off if you're not if you just
be who you are and not everybody has to be I love that little impression Peter did of the L theater
graduate but it's like some people we heard this from interviews in the book some people are quiet
but people hear them I personally think that sometimes people who are quiet and thoughtful
are much more effective than people who are like look what I've got and you've never seen
anything like this before and and by the way here's a lot of paperwork for you to sign and
I think you just have to be who you are and one of the producers in the book who started
her career with Bonnie Raitt about money rate Bonnie Hunt Bonnie Ray would have been nice too
but and she met Bonnie Ray at his second City and a bunny bunny haunted second City and she
said that the thing that she learned at right away was just to come in and you don't have
to you never start with look what I've got for you today start with finding out who they are
improv a little don't don't this is this is in in Japan which we have in the book is it'll
take days before they want to hear what you have they want to see who you are we could do better
at that everybody's in such a I worked in Canada for a number of years and there's less money and
but the quality is excellent and they take time they take time to get to know you you want to know
who you're working with the real person I think that goes back to the JJ Abrams quote so yeah
all those things are really really important what Peter's talking about but if you're not who you if
you're not if you're not really the person that you are if you bring some phony fake person in
you're not going to sell them anything and this you've heard this a thousand times I'm sure
what if you bring a better version of yourself well that's always good well I think a big part
of it you said no jokes said that you go I was exactly I was asking for a friend
a big part of the problem is we've talked to people who have a background both in acting
and improv and they are wonderful in a room there just couldn't be any comfortable here
and there are other people who say I'm a writer because I like to sit by myself and cogitate
and I'm not comfortable with a lot of other people and then I have to leave my room and go in front
of a room of people and talk to them and I think again as Jeffrey's saying is you have to do a
little bit of know thyself and say all right I can be quiet and still get my idea of course
and I can show the gravitas in my work or the comedy but I can do it low-key and I can do a
lot of letting my work speak for me and if I try and act like I'm a stand-up all of a sudden when
that doesn't that doesn't work well no but we also ran across some interesting research
where they looked at the question of do in do extroverts make better sales people
and what they found was no does that mean introverts are better no they they said
there's a group in the middle they refer to as ambiverts and again they said that the problem
that extroverts have is it's all about them so sometimes they don't get to the important points
they're pitching because they're still talking about themselves introverts sometimes is navigated
out ambiverts have a better idea they tend to be more empathic and figure out what your needs are
and be able to cater to them more directly and to get out the stuff that's important to them.