Do you believe there is a creator behind this universe?
Oh well you see that's my question, my question is, where did God come from? That is my question
because the sort of not being brought up Christian but going to like an English school you did
nativity play oh yeah of course,
Jesus is Christmas he was born, yeah but for some unknown reason Christmas day is on the
25th of December every year but Easter moves, yeah... so he died on a different day every
year but he was born on the same day now, the answer to that is something about a lunar
calendar... yeah, but if you die on a lunar calendar you gotta be born on a lunar calendar
so I'm skeptical so this is what I've been brought up with so everyone goes on about
Jesus he's the son of God he's Mary's son whatever whatever whatever but everyone just
says God is God so where did he come from?
Yeah, so I mean this so this universe okay, Jesus obviously is a secondary sort of thing
that we need to discuss before that is uh is there a creator behind this universe? yeah
okay, now without mentioning religion okay from what you know has this universe always
existed, or did it begin to exist?
Well I believe stuff has to come from somewhere whether it was a big bang whether someone
like God created it I don't know because my brain doesn't work that way but it's like
the chicken and the egg isn't it one had to come before the other but we could go on all
day which one first exactly so I mean no one's ever proved anything to me or convinced me
that that is not the big bang it was all created by God.
So what I'll say off the bat is I can't prove that God exists to you just as just as much
as you can't prove he he doesn't exist, yeah exactly, I can give you reasons for my belief
in in a creator yeah and you can do the same and it's which and based on those reasons
if it sounds plausible that's what where we stand with it.
Because when we say proof you may be thinking scientific proof can I see God I can't touch
I can't feel him etc... and the reason why I can't prove God scientifically is that the
scientific method... stay with me here... okay the scientific method
I wish they'd shut up over there. I know trust me, t's out of our control **Laughing**
The scientific method measures the physical world what we can see around us, right yeah.
Not the metaphysical what we can't see for example our soul, right, do you believe we
have a soul? yeah and I believe your souls got gotta go somewhere even if it goes into
another person. If I said to you prove your soul exists,
You can't You can't see what colour it is what shape
it is what size but you believe it exists because it manifests it gives you life,
yeah okay so we can see the signs of a creator
if you look around you this building has a builder, a painting has a painter. So the
creation has a creator you know the design has a designer.
Yeah. Okay so when it comes to the existence of
this universe okay we believe that it began to exist so something must have caused it
to exist, are you with me? Yeah.
Okay and that thing which caused it to exist must itself be something which is uncreated.
Right. You know people say who created God or where
did God come from? like you asked the question earlier.
If I said God came from something else then you say well where did that thing come from
and that will continue for infinity. Yeah.
So that would continue for infinity and we'd never get it we'd never have anything at the
end of it. yeah okay because it's really loud isn't it
yeah it's a little stall down there we'll ignore it as best as we can we're out in public
that's how it is.
So in order for as far as I'll give the analogy of a sniper, for example, yeah, okay he's
got the target in his sight he can't pull the trigger until his senior gives him permission
and that continues for infinity he'll never pull that trigger.
Okay The fact that we're here means there must
be an uncreated being or entity before this and that thing must have knowledge it must
have a power it must have a will okay that's what we call God.
Right, well that's a better explanation anyone has ever given me!
Yeah so we haven't mentioned religion I haven't said this is islam, just rationally the universe
began to exist so there must be a cause behind it, yes and I said that that cause must be
uncaused i.e itself not have another creator because then you'll continue for infinity
and we would never have a universe you're with me?
Yeah.
Okay so essentially you believe in God. I mean i'm very skeptical my mum 18 months
ago died she was very ill and I looked after her and there was the point that I knew this
was it and I did like the only prayer I know which is the lord's prayer because we learned
it at school I don't know any other prayers on the basis that if this is correct I want
her to go to a better place and if it's not correct i've got nothing to lose but I would
probably feel really guilty not doing it absolutely. At least these guys have turned up for the
noise please uh but umm...so essentially based on that explanation you can see why we believe
and the reasons why we believe in a creator yes and does that seem plausible to you?
Yeah, like something you can accept. Okay now, do you also believe that I mean
since you got the point of believing in God, that he would create us and just leave us
without any purpose and without any guidance rather? Well I hope my mum has gone somewhere
nice that keeps me going but again like I said until I get there I don't know that's
the second thing about what happens after this life, yeah, but how about us being here
do you think that God would just make us and not give us the guidance on how or what to
do with our lives and how to live our life or he would make more sense that he created
us for a purpose and he gave us guidance on how to live our lives.
Yeah it would make more sense. It's like when you go and buy a phone for
example yeah you open up that phone you got your phone your headphones etc.. what else
do you have inside there? I don't know so I don't buy phones.
All right or you buy a TV for example, yeah you get a little manual inside which says
the best way to use this device, yeah. you don't stick your phone in the microwave you'll
ruin it etc... all right so common sense.
So similarly for us to God created us and he gave us a manual on how to live our lives
and that's through the Messengers and Prophets over time who communicate with God and they
had a revelation from God.
Okay now we believe in the original Bible, we believe in the original Torah and the Prophets
and Messengers who came over time, yeah, and we believe the last in that succession of
the prophet Muhammad ﷺ over a thousand years ago this is when he lived and the book he
revealed to us or that we have is the Quran.
Alright now what's unique about the Quran is that of all the other scriptures it's the
only scripture which hasn't been changed since the day it was revealed over 10 million people
on the planet at any one given time have memorized it cover to cover in its original language
so. That's that's impressive.
Okay so we do this, I mean our children our young children they memorize probably maybe
from your daughter you've seen that as well we have memorized the Quran in the original
language. I mean Jesus ﷺ he spoke Aramaic and there are no Aramaic Bibles I mean that
there's not a tradition that people are memorizing this original language hence why you can have
many versions of the Bible now many different changes and all the rest of it.
With the Quran there's only one Quran, right, on the whole planet you go anywhere you can
ask someone to recite Fatiha which is the first chapter right, they'll all recite the
exact same way. Okay it's a means of preservation and then if on top of that..
I've been doing a lot of talking feel free to jump in and ask any questions okay yeah.
So if on top of that if you find that this book which was revealed over a thousand years
ago talking about scientific things which we are finding out in recent times, for example,
the embryological development inside the womb of the mother. Now no one knew this without
a microscope like the embryo the stages which is that and it's described in the Quran over
a thousand years ago and there's many other things but that one specifically in the scientific
facts there was a anatomist called Keith Moore he writes anatomy books if you go to medical
schools and when he was shown this in the Quran he accepted islam because he said this
is this cannot be from a a person who can't read and write over a thousand years ago he
can't know this it's impossible okay so these are some these are some of the reasons and
then the linguistic miracles and the historical predictions of the future etc... which are
mentioned inside it, which prove to us that this must be from the creator himself rather
than a human being who lives in the desert, who can't read and write over a thousand years
ago.
Well out of everyone you've probably given me more reason to believe there is rather
than there isn't.
Well, you believe in Gods you've just said that you believe it, yeah, I believe something
has to be there but what... absolutely I mean that thing you believe that God exists and
he created us for a purpose and we believe that purpose is to live our life how he wants
us to live it, yeah you know he created and said look if you want to have a good life
in this life that you were here for 50 60 70 years do XYZ, okay and you will fulfill
your purpose in this life and you'll be rewarded in the hereafter, now we're talking about
the hereafter.
We believe that there is ultimate justice in the hereafter that those who you might
get away with it in this life okay, or the punishment might not be suitable for that
crime that a person's committed but on the day of Judgement we believe that God is the
most just that He will hold every person accountable and through his mercy, we will enter into
paradise so if we do good deeds in this life and we'll enter into paradise.
I believe you don't need to be religious to do good deeds, no doubt now there are people
who will do good deeds in this life and they'll be rewarded in this life they'll live a good
life as a result of the good actions.
I mean we live in a terrible society people don't even hold doors open for people anymore.
Would you like something to drink, some coffee? It's fine.
Life is a test okay, this life we've been put here and of course we'll be tested with
blessings with good things that happen to us and sometimes like you said your mother
passed away, these tests to see how we respond to these tests okay do we not still acknowledge
the creator if a bad thing happens, it doesn't mean that the universe created itself okay,
it's has got to come from somewhere.
Yes, no one's ever given me an explanation for God, the best I've had is God as a being
and I'm like that's not an answer.
I mean yeah, so I mean that's how I would explain why I believe like I said I can't
prove to you scientifically that God exists. Why can't I prove that scientifically is because
it's like me giving you a weighing scale and saying tell me how tall you are? yeah can
you tell me how tall you are with that scale, no, because you can't measure because it's
the wrong instrument yeah so similarly with science which measures the physical world
you'll never be able to prove your soul exists and God exists and other metaphysical things
because they're outside the physical world. okay. If someone dies you don't see the soul
disappear but you know it's gone, exactly. they become a dead body, precisely, even electricity
you can't see the electrons but you know you can see the manifestation off of those things
so when it comes to the creation and we believe these things exist but why is it that when
it comes to God we have like well the reason we have almost a block like um you know uh
something bad happens so there can't be a God behind it they can't is it's because our
vision of who God is is an issue. We believe that you know a lot of people come with this
issue of well why do babies die if God exists. yeah he's got a chip on his shoulder why do
babies live in God just said that as well why is this why do bad why do bad things it's
called the problem of evil if you don't have bad things happen you wouldn't know good things
would happen exactly. You wouldn't know the light without the darkness.
Okay so similarly these things exist in our lives as a test for us okay and we believe
that those children were innocent who died they go to paradise so for us in you know
in our short-sightedness it's in it's a tragedy. That's comforting to believe that absolutely,
of course absolutely there are still days where I'm like I wonder where my mum went
and to be able to believe that that is what happened.
Now we believe there's a hereafter and God will hold us accountable you know the issue
you mentioned about bad things happen and how about if you're atheist and you're good
to people around you now there's a horizontal relationship between us and those around us
our neighbours our family etc and then there's a vertical relationship between us and our
creator if a person lives their whole life being good to those around them this is great
of course they'll be rewarded for that in this life but if that person not one day acknowledges
the one who created them don't you think. Imagine if I gave you... I don't know what
do you like.. if you can have anything, chocolate... if I gave you a whole mountain of chocolate
for example right and I say I just want you to call me five times a day and just thank
me for that dream that's been fulfilled for you okay, is that too much to ask? No, okay
so imagine like I said if you want that mountain of chocolate
for example okay I want one of your eyes, would you ever give me your eye for that chocolate.
You could have anything else but not my eyes...yeah okay now imagine God gave us our eyes and
our and the rest of our bodies and all the other blessings for free doesn't he deserve
that recognition and gratitude?
My fear of being blind anything else... I'm not asking for your eyes but the point i'm
making is God gave us these eyes and he gave us our whole bodies remember you said you
wouldn't trade that mountain of chocolate for your eyes, of course, yeah so he deserves
that we thank him five times a day that's when we were praying you just saw the guys
praying there that's that gratitude and recognition. He's the one who gave us everything we have
he deserves this okay so this is when it comes to that issue of worship submission he deserves
that he gave us everything we had we were born with nothing both of us exactly okay
and the only thing we take with us is what we've done in this life this is what we believe
the good deeds that go with us and the key thing every Muslim every person who submits
the belief in the single creator and worships them will enter into paradise we believe this
okay and the key to entering to paradise is testifying that there is no one worthy of
worship except God and that the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ and all the other prophets and messengers.
We don't worship the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ we never call upon him we only worship God
in Islam it is the only purely monotheistic religion we have that direct connection with
that God you believe in.
Yeah more than if you said to me Jesus ﷺ or anything else yeah we believe it we believe
in Jesus ﷺ we believe in him as a prophet and messenger we don't believe in anyone is
a child of God, okay especially the literal child of God. We believe everyone is a creation
we God, he created us for a purpose he sent us messengers to guide us okay and we all
but we only worship him we only thank him when for our blessings he's the one who gave
us everything he's one who can take everything away from us he's one who's in control of
every atom in the universe, okay so he deserves this.
I suppose so out of everyone I've spoken to that's the best answer I've had, so when are
you going to become Muslim then? Never.
I thought I'd pop the question but never say never. okay, thank you.
I do say that I say never say never, never is a very long time, it is yeah so I would
say these things that you've said today, of course, we don't expect someone to become
straight away. Reflect on them reflect on the fact that you've acknowledged that you
believe in a creator you believe we have a purpose in this life and God wouldn't create
us without giving us guidance why it wouldn't make sense he doesn't give us guidance then
he punishes us or rewards us afterward and we said well you never told us how to live
our lives, so he gave us guidance if we follow that guidance like in any other thing in life
if you go to university and you study etc...you'll get a qualification at the end of it, if you
doss the whole time you won't get anything at the end of it, simple as that.
Be nice to people they'll be nice but I've always said to treat people you want them
to treat you. Yeah absolutely reciprocate that someone to
be nice to them yeah so reflect on these things and if there are any questions obviously you
can approach your daughter or us and we'll take it from there.