-Our first guest is a United States senator
from New Jersey and a member of the
Senate Judiciary Committee. Please welcome back to the show
Senator Cory Booker.
How are you, Senator? -Thank you for having me.
Yeah. I'm doing well. It's been a long stretch.
But it's really good to be on with you.
Thanks. -It's been a long stretch.
And there's a lot going on for you.
You're running for re-election.
Obviously, you're helping in the presidential campaign.
There are Senate Judiciary Committee hearings.
How are you holding up? -Look, I'm well.
What worries me is about the nation,
the state of New Jersey, and our country,
as we are in the midst
of the fourth-largest mass-casualty event
in the history of the United States
after the Civil War, World War II,
and the pandemic of 1918.
And it's growing. And to see so many folks
who are not only facing these health challenges,
but the resulting financial challenges,
with 40% of American families
who have children and food insecurity
and eviction crises and more.
So, we are a country that,
for lack of a better way of putting it,
is walking through the valley of the shadow of death.
And it's just been a frustrating stretch that,
instead of the Senate getting to work on meeting that crisis,
we have been rushing through a Supreme Court justice
in a way that has never before seen in history
when there's an ongoing election.
As opposed to really focusing on the hurt and the pain
and the challenges that our fellow Americans are facing.
-I'm wondering if, behind the scenes,
your colleagues across the aisle
feel any shame about the hypocrisy
of what they did to Merrick Garland
and how they're rushing through this confirmation
with just weeks before the election.
-There's been times in the last four years
that I've definitely seen people express private outrage
at the behavior of this president,
how he tramples our norms and breaks our traditions.
Unfortunately, with this Supreme Court justice,
I've seen no remorse.
But it's painful to have the actual words,
the exact things that my colleagues said, months ago,
that they would not do this.
It is one of those more jarring,
almost whiplashing times of mine in public life,
where you see somebody say, explicitly,
that they will not do this.
And if they do, "Use my words against me,"
as one of my colleagues said.
And then, now, to see it exactly happening.
And this is not just hurting, maybe,
those Democrats who are -- who are against this.
It's actually, you know,
shredding the fabric of our country
and our culture and our institutions.
Because one of the great, important things in a democracy,
for us to function, is us to have trust.
Trust in our institutions. Trust in truth.
Trust in each other's word.
This is a time where we don't live in a country
where it's authoritarian rule,
where one who is strong enough gets to rule the others.
We're a nation that necessitates grace and compromise
and a willingness to work together
and to find common ground.
And unfortunately, I think this episode
is going to have lasting damage to our country.
And obviously, putting a person on the Supreme Court
for a lifetime appointment,
this is going to be felt for a generation or two.
-You were, of course, referring to Senator Lindsey Graham
and the "use my words against me."
His hypocrisy has obviously been on display.
And yet, we sort of had the hearings for Judge Barrett that,
even one of your colleagues, Dianne Feinstein, afterwards,
complimented Lindsey Graham for how the whole thing was run.
Do you worry that the Democratic Party didn't do enough
to show how illegitimate these hearings were
and how unfair this whole process has been?
-Yeah. I actually think that we did.
You know, there --
You know, a lot of times, the things that we do
don't, understandably, grab the headlines.
But I think that this has been a time where the chorus of
not only my caucus of fellow Democratic senators,
but the voices of so many Americans, Republicans --
Heck, even two Republican senators
on their side came and said, "No, this is not right."
But I've been grateful to see people on both sides
of the aisle coming forward.
Even about a hundred Notre Dame professors
saying kind things about the nominee
but just saying this is not right.
This is wrong.
And at a time where, frankly, we have a president
who is openly saying he will not support,
necessarily, a peaceful transfer of power,
that, if he loses, this election is rigged.
Telling extremist groups to "stand back and stand by."
It's a time where all of us
should be concerned about the coming election
and, frankly, doing everything we can
to affirm our common values and our common virtues.
Not just voting. To me, that is a grave urgency.
But this is going to take a time, I think, in our country
where many of us
are going to have to step up in the spirit of civic grace,
in a spirit of, you know, trying to make this nation
more of a beloved community, to help get us through
what I think is going to be a tough period.
-You had to ask the nominee
whether or not she condemns white supremacy,
whether or not she supports a peaceful transfer of power.
Were you satisfied with her answers?
-I -- I was -- I was stunned, actually,
that there was a lot of things she just refused to answer,
things that, I can only imagine,
that in the years preceding this,
that every appointed judge or nominated judge
on both sides of the aisle
would find the questions almost ridiculous.
Like, "Do I support a peaceful transfer of power?
Of course, I do.
Do I think that climate change is real?"
That -- I mean, a lot of the questions,
she just refused to even express her --
her -- her affirmation of.
Was a little bit disturbing to me.
And when it comes to issues of race,
which is another issue I explored with her,
I was actually sort of surprised
that someone of renowned scholarship and writing
could not express to me, really, any kind of critical,
or even curiosity to read, a lot of the literature
that's out there about how our legal system
is so affected by race.
And why -- how we still are a nation
that has a justice system that has disparate impact on people,
based upon the color of their skin
or the wealth that they have.
As one of my heroes, Brian Stevenson, says,
we have a criminal justice system
that treats you better if you're rich and guilty
than if you're poor and innocent.
And so to not even being able to speak to that
makes me worry about how,
when you are asked to preside over cases that I think demand,
first and foremost, from a judge,
the ability to show true empathy
and understanding of both sides of an issue,
but yet you haven't examined,
with any depth, scholarship, or deep curiosity,
it makes me really worry about you, in any way,
being able to make our justice system
more equal, more accessible, and more legitimate in the eyes
of the diversity that is America.
-I want to talk more about race and diversity
and the ways in which the President brings your name up.
And we'll be right back with more from Senator Cory Booker.
Right after this.