>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: So we've seen that despite the horrors of removal, the Cherokee Nation
survived. The Cherokee Nation, in fact, went on to prosper and flourish in subsequent years.
We had some interludes in between. The Cherokee Nation is back in full force. One of the things
that it continues to do is to pressure the United States to recognize the inherent rights
of sovereignty that it retains. It's mounted challenges, especially in the areas concerning
rights to resources, especially like land and water. So as we see the Cherokee Nation
moving forward asking for a more equilateral relationship vis-a-vis the federal government.
Dan, I'm wondering if you've got ideas now about how you see nations expressing their
sovereignty in today's era.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: I think it plays out in a number of ways. From fairly straightforward
examples, I believe the Cherokee Nation was the first to come to an agreement with the
state of Oklahoma to issue their own license plates, right?
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Mmhmm.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: And that seems like a very simple thing, but it it's a really
strong statement of sovereignty to assume those governmental actions and forms that
previously had been undertaken by the state and the federal government.
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Mmhmm.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: This gets particularly tricky because this nation-to-nation relationship
really exists at the federal level. So much of the work that remains to be done is to
figure out exactly how this nation-to-nation relationship plays out when it comes down
to the relationship between Native nations and the states in which they reside.
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Right. That's one of the things that a lot of tribal governments
in the past have absolutely insisted on, that they don't negotiate with states, that they
negotiate with the feds. But, as you suggest, it looks like the feds in some places have
said, "If we delegate that right to the states then that's who tribal nations will need to
go talk to."
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: Yeah, there's there's no more I think a more complex situation than
when we do start to talk about resources --
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: -- because this is where the states have have the the domain. This
is where states' rights are at the forefront of these discussions. So here in Oklahoma,
one of the things we're concerned about, as most people in the southwest right now and
ultimately all of us, is water.
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Mmhmm.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: So this brings into--several factors into the equation. One is this concept
of ceded territories, that somehow Native nations have this ongoing set of rights relative
to the resources that they may no longer have political control over.
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Mmhmm.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: So I think really what we're speaking about here are are common issues
and as Native nations, like the Cherokee, increasingly play a leadership role. We're
seeing this come to fruition today in Oklahoma as they become more and more engaged in supporting
the infrastructure of counties and cities--
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Mmhmm.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: --particularly these these small rural communities.
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Right.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: So they're working to serve the general population, not just their
own citizens. And I think that this is going to be an important part as all of this discussion
about water rights, and and resource allocation, and and maybe not to develop resources.
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Mmhmm.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: That's a that's another alternative that Native nations are bringing
forward.
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Right. One of the things, it sounds to me like we're talking about here,
when we're talking about sovereignty is power, right? What sorts of powers accrue to a Native
nation? And power can work in a lot of wonderful ways, right? It can do something like provide
revenue for housing, it can provide revenue for healthcare. One of the things it can also
do is provide power over folks, right? And as I think we'll we'll have heard Lindsay
Robertson talk about in some places in some times, it looks like Native nations have power
over non-Native folks. And how it is that non-Native folks understand that kind of relationship
looks to be one of the major challenges coming up for us in the future.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: Well, I'd absolutely agree. This is this is probably one of the
most tricky points in this current discussion of of the relationship between native Nations
and state governments and and their citizens. This is a point of tremendous resistance --
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: -- and something that obviously is going to play out probably through
a variety of mechanisms.
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Right. Dan, I wonder if you've got any other last thoughts for
us on this unit as we head into our next about places where you feel like sovereignty is
going to play its--or or questions of sovereignty are going to play their most important roles.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: Well, I think that in my own particular work, for example, in a
museum environment, over the course of my career I've seen the the equation change significantly
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: Mmhmm.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: -- as Native peoples are not only at the table, but they're at
the table not just as partners, but they may provide the leadership for for projects and
>>Dr. Joshua Nelson: They may provide the table.
>>Dr. Daniel C. Swan: That's exactly right.