As we reported the Biden administration today announced an offer
of a potential prisoner swap to secure the release of WNBA's star
Britney Griner and another American detained in Russia. Nevada's
looks at what's at stake.
Judy Griner has been held in Russia since February on drug possession
charges. She pleaded guilty earlier this month to unintentionally
bringing cannabis oil into the country and testified in her case
for the first time today, saying she was denied basic rights when
she was first detained and interrogated. The Biden ministrations
revealed this afternoon that officials offered Russia a deal last
month to bring home grinder and Paul Whelan and American citizen
held in Russia since 2018
Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the U. S. Is now waiting for
Russia to respond.
We have conveyed this, um, on a number of occasions.
Um
And directly.
Two Russian officials
And my hope would be that in speaking to Foreign Minister Lavrov.
I can advance
The efforts to bring them home.
For more on what this means. I'm joined by Michael McFaul, Former
U. S ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration is now
a professor at Stanford University. And Jonathan Frank's A crisis
management specialist who worked to free former U. S. Marine. Trevor
read from Russia earlier this year. He has worked on the successful
release of several other Americans wrongfully detained overseas.
Gentlemen, Welcome to You both. Thank you for being here, Ambassador.
I'll begin with you. We didn't get many details about what that deal
was from secretary.
A blinking, he said. It was substantial offered weeks ago, but this
is the first time they're saying publicly. We've made a deal. What
does this say to you about where those negotiations are?
Well, I think it would be highly unlikely for secretary blinking
tick say anything about the deal if he didn't think the deal was
going to be completed, so there's a very positive sign. I think for
Brittney Griner and Paul Weiland, I hope that they add to the list.
Another American who I think is wrongly detained in Russia. His name
is Mark Fogel. But sounds like they have put together a deal. It
sounds like it's probably for Victor Boot.
A criminal that was arrested a long time ago, and they Russians have
been asking for him release for years going all the way back to when
I was ambassador. It sounds like they're putting that deal together.
Jonathan. What about Victor Boot? As Ambassador McFaul just said
blinking also mentioned this deal is based on what he called a history
of conversations with the Russians. They have been seeking Victor
Bout's release.
For years. He's a convicted Russian arms dealer. We should say who
is serving a 25 year sentence here in the US tell us what we should
know about him. And and is that a good deal? Well,
Yes, is the short answer? I mean, Mr Boot has 5 to 6 more years on
his sentence, and we would get significantly more up Paul Willens.
And I imagine that Miss Griner is going to be sentenced to a ridiculous
prison term as well. So we'd get time off of hers and get the better
end of that deal. Um, obviously I have been out there trying to sell
a prisoner trades. Uh, since October that included, you know, I was
trying to sell Yaroshenko and boot for will And then, uh, and read,
it turned out to be a one for one deal, so
To me. All I have to say tonight is Bravo Secretary Blinken. Bravo,
Mr President. We've been trying to get them for some time to build
on the success of the release.
With Trevor Reid, and it appears that they're about to do so. The
ambassador just alluded to Jonathan, should they have done this sooner?
The Russians have been asking him for Victor boot for a while. And
if that is, in fact the deal should this have been done earlier?
When? How much earlier my question. I mean, I don't They've been
trying to do this. At least you know, publicly, the earliest I could
find was 2016. I don't know that I would have been there in 2016
because he doesn't get out until 2029. So I think at this point um
what I'd like to see them do this several years ago? Yeah, no question.
Ambassador. What about Victor boot here? I mean, we're talking about
freeing a very dangerous man. His nickname is the Merchant of death.
He has fueled incredibly violent conflicts all over the world. Does
this compromise global stability or US security in any way? These
are hard deals. Victor Boot is a real horrible criminal. Brittney
Griner, Paul Wheelan, Mark Fogel. They're innocent Americans. So
when you do these trades, they are not that they're uncomfortable
trades when I was in the
Government at the White House. Back in 2010. We faced a similar deal
in swapping spies, right and it wasn't a symmetric thing.
We spent a dozen spies rushing back and we got four out. But at the
end of the day, you have to calculate our Americans better off and
their security better off by doing the trade than not. Our Justice
Department doesn't like it. Those the FBI doesn't like it. The CIA
doesn't like it. But the secretary of state and ultimately the president
of United States has to make that decision. And I think in this case,
it's the right decision. Ambassador. What about the president? But
the
Other question right at a time when there are more states, not third
party or other actors, more states detaining Americans overseas.
Does this set a precedent that the way for them to get other people
released here in the US is by nabbing more US citizens.
You know that's the conventional wisdom, but actually, there's not
a lot of data to support that hypothesis. The idea that now we're
going to see more and more detained. I just have not seen the evidence
that support. It's that way with terrorist organizations. It may
be true. I don't think it's the truest state actors. I most certainly
don't think it's true with the Russian government.
Jonathan, Let me ask you about the U. S response in this because
obviously Brittney Griner has been detained since February. You have
been among those very vocally and more recently calling for the government
to do more. There was a sense that the administration was moving
slowly, at least publicly. What was that? A fair criticism.
I think it was and I think we had hoped to see trades follow on Trevor
within 30 days or so and we didn't but you know, they have clearly
made significant progress, and I absolutely commend them for it.
And you know, it's your earlier point. I commend the ambassador to
there is no data to support the notion that doing trades causes more
hostage taking.
And you know, we worked very closely with the James Foley fund. They
are the keeper of statistics, and they I'm not a statistics or math
guy, but they tell me there's no correlation and pretty much exactly
what the ambassador just said. What about the public pressure? In
this case? What kind of role do you think that played? You were here
in D. C, holding a press conference calling for the government to
do more We know grinders. Wife, Cheryl Griner has been giving more
interviews, high profile W N B a basketball stars like coach Dawn
Staley. Did that help do you think
Yes, I think absolutely. I think it created, uh, both a political
space to make a deal like this, and also some urgency and
You know, there are I just want to say they're 15. Plus other cases
that can be resolved with trades now from you know, some of them
are probably a little too much and some of them may be palatable,
right? But I think it
There comes a point at which we have to clear the decks and bring
our people home. So I I am I was very excited watching Secretary
blankets remarks today, Ambassador We should underscore here. This
is a proposed deal. They are waiting for Russia to respond. The trial
is ongoing. Griner has another court date on August 2nd. And all
of this is unfolding as the Russian war in Ukraine continues. How
do you think this? This moves forward from here?
Well, I'm glad you pump the brakes there. Let's not get ahead of
our skis. Yet. We do that when the Americans are on American soil,
and I have enough bitter experience in negotiating with the Russians
to have deals fall apart at the last minute again, though I would
I do not think that Secretary Blinken would make the remarks, he
said today if you were not confident
It's going to happen. My guess is well they'll have to wait until
Brittney Griner has been sentenced. I don't think it will happen
before then. But hopefully right after that this deal will will happen
and again. I want to emphasize. I hope Mark Fogel, who's also wrongly
detained and convicted in Russia will also be part of the deal. I
think it's a pretty good deal to trade. One horrible criminal Victor
boot for three innocent Americans.
Jonathan. What about you? When you look ahead, How do you see this?
Playing out? I agree with the ambassador completely. I I also am
concerned about Mark Fogel, Um, concerned about the case against
him and concerned about what is I think an absurd sentence. So I
think it would be great. If Mark could be in the deal. And you know,
whatever it takes to bring our people home. Big potential news today.
In the case of Brittney Griner detained overseas in Russia. We thank
you both.
For joining us to explain what all of this means that Ambassador