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It's theCUBE.
Covering Micron Insight 2018.
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>> Welcome back to the San Francisco Bay, everybody.
We saw the sun rise in the bay this morning,
in about an hour or so, we're going to see the sun set.
It's a gorgeous setting here at Pier 27.
Knobb Hill is up there,
the Golden Gate Bridge over there.
And of course, we have this gorgeous view of the Bay.
You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage.
We're covering Micron Insight 2018.
AI, accelerating intelligence,
lot of talk on memory and storage,
but a lot more talk around the future of AI.
So, we got a great discussion here
on the auto business
and how AI is powering that business.
Jeff Bader is here as the
Corporate Vice President and General Manager of the
Embedded Business Unit at Micron.
Good to see you again, Jeff.
Thanks for coming on.
And Simon Euringer is the Vice President at BMW.
And he's also joined by
Vijay Nadkami, who is the
Global Head of AI and Augmented Reality at Visteon,
which is a supplier to automobile manufactures.
Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE
Thanks so much for coming on.
>> You're welcome
>> Thanks
>> So, you guys had a panel earlier today
which was pretty extensive.
Just a lot of talk about AI, how AI
will be a platform for interacting with the vehicle,
the consumer and the driver interacting with the vehicle,
also talked a lot about autonomous vehicles.
But Simon, why don't you kick it off.
Your role at BMW, let's just start there.
We'll do the same for Vijay and get into it.
>> I'm responsible for the research portion
that we do globally, which is represented
here in North America.
And so obviously, we're working on autonomous vehicles
as well as integrating assistance into the car.
And basically what we're trying to do
is to get use AI as much as possible
in all of the behavioral parts of the vehicle
that users have an expectations towards being more
personalized and having a personalized experience.
Whereas we have a solid portion of the vehicle that is
going to be as deterministic and aesthetic as we had it
before, like all of the safety aspects, for example.
And that is what we're working on here.
>> Okay now, Vijay.
Visteon is a supplier to BMW and other auto manufactures.
Is that right?
>> Yes, we are a tier one supplier.
So, we basically don't make cars,
but we supply auto manufactures, obviously BMW is one.
And my role is essentially AI technology at Visteon.
And also augmented reality.
So, in AI there are basically two segments that we cater to.
And one is autonomous driving,
which is probably our biggest segment.
And the second one is in infotainment.
And in that, the whole idea is to give the driver
a better experience in the car by way of
recommendations, productivity, movements, and such.
That is, my team basically double ups the technology
and then we essentially integrate that into our products.
>> So not necessarily self driving
its really more about the experience inside the vehicle.
>> That is the infotainment side.
And then on the autonomous driving side,
we of course, are very much involved with the
autonomous driving technology
which has to do with detecting objects
and making the proper maneuvers of the vehicle.
>> Okay, we're definitely going to talk about that.
Now Jeff, you sell to the embedded industry
including automobile manufacturers.
We hear that cars have,
I forget the number of micro processors,
but there's also a lot of memory and storage
associated with it. >> Yeah, and I mean
if you follow the chain,
you have Simon representing the OEMs,
we have Vijay representing the tier one suppliers,
we're suppliers to those
tier one suppliers in essence, right?
So, we're providing memory and storage that then
goes into the car, and as you said,
across all of the different sort of control
and engine control and computing units within the car,
in particular into that infotainment application
and increasingly into the ADAS
or Advanced Driver Assisted Systems that are leading
towards autonomous driving.
>> So, there's a lot of AI or some AI anyways
in vehicles today, right?
Presumably.
In fact, David did a wonderful job on the panel,
I thought he was outstanding.
But he kind of got caught up in having multiple systems,
like an Apple car play and you're own system.
I actually have a BMW, or kind of a BMW,
I have a Mini.
Because I'm afraid it's going to be self-driving cars
and I just want to drive a car
before they take it away from me.
So, you push a button if you want to talk to SIRI,
and you push another button if you want to talk to the Mini.
I mean, you use it for different use cases.
>> Exactly
>> Is that AI, I mean?
>> AI is also about adaption and also about integrating.
So, AI is coming with you
with the devices that you have with you anyway, right?
So, you might be an Alexa user rather than a
Google Assistant user and you would have the expectation
to be able to ask, to chat with your Alexa
in your car as well.
That's why we have them in the vehicle.
Also, we have our own voice assistant,
that we recently launched,
in the Paris Motor Show.
Which augments the experience that you have with
your own assistants, because it factors
in all the things you can do with the car.
So, we can say that there is a solid portion
of AI already in the vehicle.
It's mainly visible in the infotainment section.
>> Right, and of course, I remember the first time,
I'm sure you guys experienced it too,
that the car braked on my behalf,
and that kind of freaked me out.
But then I kind of like it too.
And that's another form of machine intelligence, right?
Does that count?
>> Well, that counts for you.
That has not necessarily been done by AI.
Because let's say self driving,
there is a portion of pre-deterministic,
rule based behavior, and exactly that one,
like hitting an object at parking,
you don't need AI to determine to hit the brakes, right?
There is no portion of AI necessary
in order to improve that behavior.
Whereas predicting the best driving strategy
for your 20 mile ride on the highway,
this is where AI is really beneficial.
>> In fact, I was at a conference last week in Orlando.
It's Splunk Show, and it was a speaker from BMW
talking about what you're doing in that regard,
it's all about the data, right?
And being able to,
>> And learning about it.
>> And turning data into insights.
>> Into better behavior.
Into better expected behavior
from whatever the customer wants.
>> So Vijay, you were saying before that you actually
provide technology for autonomous vehicles.
>> Right.
>> So, I had a question for you.
Could today's state of autonomous vehicles,
pass a drivers test?
>> No.
>> No? Would you let it take one?
>> No, well.
The right answer is it depends.
There are an assortment of companies,
like Waymo, for example, that do a lot.
But I still don't think Waymo
can take out proper drivers test as of today.
But, it is of course trying to get there.
But what we are essentially doing is
taking baby steps first and I think you may be aware of
the SA levels, so, level one, level two,
level three, level four, etc., and then five.
So, we and most of the companies in the industry right now,
are really focusing more
on the level two through level four,
and a few companies like Google, or Waymo rather,
and Uber and such are focusing on the level five.
We actually believe that the level two through four,
the market will be ready for that.
Essentially, in the shorter term.
Whereas the level five will take
a little while to get there.
>> So, everybody of course wants to know when
we'll have autonomous vehicles.
I'm not going to ask you that question
because it's such a spectrum of self-driving.
But I want to ask you the question differently,
and I'll ask each of you,
when do you think that driving your own car will become
the exception rather than the rule.
>> Well I rather prefer actually
to rephrase the question maybe,
>> Please. >> Maybe to where, not when.
Because where, on a highway setting,
this question can be answered precisely.
In roughly two to three years,
the functionality will kick in,
and then it's going to be a renewal of the vehicles.
So, if you answer, if you ask where,
then there is an answer,
within the next five years, definitely.
If we talk about an urban downtown scenario,
the question when is hard to answer.
>> Yeah, so, my question is more of a social question
than it is a technology question, right?
Because I'm not giving up my stick shift.
>> Well, I will say, and again, this is an example.
Getting my 17 year old to get his permit
was like kicking a bird out of the nest, fly.
>> Right, kid, drive.
>> They don't care.
He has a permanent driver on staff, basically with me.
Right? So why?
But I mean, when I was a kid, that was freedom.
>> 16 years old.
>> You were racing
out the door, right? >> You were so stoked, right?
And there is a large generational group growing up right now
that doesn't necessarily see it as a necessity, right?
So, not driving your own car,
I think, car share services, ride share, Uber,
and so on and so forth, are absolutely going to solve
a large portion of the transportation challenge,
for a large portion of the population, I think.
But I agree with the earlier answers of,
its going to be where you're not driving
as opposed to necessarily when, I think.
>> We heard today, of course, you talk about,
I think the number was 40,000 fatalities on the roadways,
>> In the US.
>> In the US,
and everyone talks about how autonomous vehicles
are going to help attack that problem.
But it strikes me, talking about autonomous cars,
why don't we have autonomous carts, like in a hospital,
or even autonomous robots that aren't relying
on lines or stripes or beacons.
One would think that would come
before an autonomous vehicle.
Am I missing something?
Are there systems out there I just haven't seen?
>> Well, I don't know if you ever seen
videos of Amazon distribution centers.
>> Yeah, but they're going to school on lines and beacons.
>> They are.
>> And they're not really autonomous.
>> That's fair, that's fair, yeah.
>> So, will we see autonomous carts
before we see autonomous cars?
>> I think it's a question of what problem
that solves necessarily.
>> Yeah sure. >> Like the Amazon example,
it's just as easy to know where something is,
and to paint a line, right? >> And it's repeatable, right.
You think about Micron's fabs,
every one of our fabs is completely automated.
There's a material handling system that runs up and down
around the ceilings handling all the wafers
and all the cartridges of wafers.
Moving it from one tool to the next tool to the next tool.
There's not people anymore carrying that around
or even robots on the floor, right?
But, it's a guided track system
that only can go to certain places.
>> Well, the last speaker today too was talking about,
and I remember when remember when robots couldn't
climb stairs and now they can do back flips.
You know, you think about the list of things
humans can do that computers can't do.
And the list gets smaller and smaller every year.
So, its kind of scary to think about it on one hand.
There's the concept of Byzantine Fault Tolerance,
are you guys familiar with that?
Does that come into play here?
Do you guys know what that's about?
>> I don't know what it is exactly but,
>> So it's a problem in, and I first read about it
when it was the Byzantine general problem.
If you have nine generals, four want to attack,
four want to retreat and the ninth sends a message
to half to retreat and not,
and you don't have the full force of the attack.
So, the concept is if you're in a self-driving,
both within the vehicle and within the ecosystem,
around the city, that you're
collectively solving the problem.
So, these are challenging math problems
that need to be worked out.
And I'm not saying I'm a skeptic, but I just,
the more I read about it, the more hurdles we have.
There are some isolated examples of where AI,
I think, fits really well and is going to solve problems today.
But the singularity of vehicles seems to be a ways off.
>> Yeah, we have a highly regulated environment.
Obviously public transportation or public roads, right,
are a highly regulated environment.
So it's like,
it's different than curating playlists or whatever, right?
This is not so much regulated.
Traffic and legislation isn't there yet.
So, especially it's designed for humans, right?
Traffic, cars, roads are designed for humans to use them.
And so, the adoption to the design of any legislation,
of any public infrastructure would be completely different
if we didn't drive as humans but we had machines drive them.
So why are robots and carts not coming?
Because the infrastructure really is designed for humans.
And so, I think that's what's going to be
the ultimate slowdown, is how fast,
we as a society, that comes up with legislation,
with acceptance of behavioral aspects
that are driven by AI and how fast we adopt it.
Technically, I think it can happen faster than we believe.
>> Yeah, it's not a technology problem as much as it is
a public policy, insurance companies not sure.
>> Infrastructure
>> Yeah
>> I mean, if you think about,
one of the advantages you can think of from a,
even level four capable car on a highway is platooning.
>> Yeah
>> Right?
Instead of having X number of car lengths
to the car in front of you,
you stack 'em up and they're all going in a row.
That sounds great until
Joe Blow with their 20 year old Honda
starts to pull into that lane, right?
So, you either say this lane is not allowed for that
or you create special infrastructure essentially
that isn't designed for humans,
or is more designed specifically
for the machine driven car, right?
>> How big is this market?
It feels like its enormous.
How do you look at the TAM?
>> We can talk for the memory,
I can talk the memory storage part of it, right.
But, today, memory and storage,
all of memory and storage for automotive
is about a 2.5 billion dollar market.
That is going to triple in the next three years
and probably beyond that, my visibility is not so good,
maybe yours is better for sure.
But it's then really driven by adoption rate
and how fast that starts to penetrate
through the car OEM lines
and across the different car OEM's.
>> And Vijay, your firm is, when were you formed?
How long have you been around?
>> Oh, Visteon has been around basically since around 2001.
We were a part of Ford and then Ford spun out
Visteon at a point. >> Okay so relatively new.
Right okay, so alright, so that's the little innovation.
>> Right, Ford of course has been around forever.
>> Yes.
>> But it's green fields for you and your group?
>> Right.
>> Whereas for BMW, you know, this is transitional, right?
So, is it you try not to get disrupted?
Or you trying to be the disruptor?
Or is it all sort of incremental business for you?
>> Well as a 101 year old company,
obviously people think about you as being ripe
for disruption and I think we do quite well,
in terms of renewing ourselves, coming from
an airplane business, to a motorcycle business,
to a car business.
>> It's cause you're cool. >> Right?
>> Simon, its because you're cool.
>> And so I think the answer is are we fast enough?
Are we fast enough in adoption?
And on the other hand it's fair to say that BMW,
with all of it's brands is part of a premium thing.
And so, it's not into the mass transportation.
So, everything that's going to be eaten up by something like
multi-occupancy vehicle mass transportation
in a smaller effort, right?
This is probably not going to hurt a premium brand so much
as a typical econo-type of boxy car.
>> Exciting times.
Gentlemen, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE.
We got to run.
Appreciate it.
>> Thank you so much
>> Thanks so much
>> Okay, thanks for watching everybody.
We are out from San Francisco.
You've watched theCUBE at Micron Insight 2018.
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TheCube.net is where you'll find these videos.
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Thanks for watching everybody
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