confidence is look what i can do
and trust is i have support to do what i
can do
and what we want is both
and when women don't feel trust
that they have the support they need
then their stress levels go up when men
don't have confidence that they can do
what's required to produce the result
they need and they get the messages that
they're doing that they lose confidence
their stress goes up
hi everybody this is jason campbell and
welcome to this session of your
mindvalley membership now for this
episode i'm bringing to you someone
who's actually quite familiar he's been
part of consciousness engineer in the
past and he talked a lot about
relationships and love but for this time
as part of our impact category we're
going to be talking about men and women
in the workplace and this man needs no
introduction and if you're not aware of
him he has written over 20 books has
been featured on countless channels
including oprah dr oz and countless
other media outlets in the us mars and
venus in the workplace has been read by
millions and he is one of the leading
experts when it comes to relationship
psychology between men women and how we
function in the world and today
specifically in the workplace we're
going to be challenging some of the
rules and the models of reality that
you're going to learn are going to shift
the way that you think how we interact
together in the workplace i'm very
excited to bring dr john gray for this
episode of mindvalley membership john
welcome to the show
[Music]
so most people actually know you for
your best-selling book men are from mars
women are from venus which talk about
the interactions of men and women in a
romantic environment but you've also
extensively spoke about how we interact
in the workplace
absolutely it's very important the same
principles that men and women are
different apply in the workplace but
they do apply differently they're two
different worlds there's our personal
life and then there's our work life
and we can't expect them to all have the
same rules but what is universal
is that whether you're at home in a
romantic relationship parental with your
children
men and women boys and girls they're
different they're different emotional
needs and we cope with stress
differently in the workplace
you have differences between men and
women now the old-fashioned thinking is
that men could do the job better
that's not relevant today anymore we
know that when they can do the job if
you want to say equal if not better than
men it's certain jobs women are going to
be better at certain jobs men are going
to be better at but a woman can learn to
do anything a man can do to a great
extent and a man can learn to do
anything a woman can do to a great
extent so the question of are women
competent to be in the workplace is out
of date now they've proven themselves
but they're still the challenges of good
communication cooperation and having the
insight into understanding men and
women's different emotional needs as a
leader
in the workplace i have way better
skills to create a team of people that
are cooperating collaborating feeling
valued feeling respected feeling honored
because i take into consideration
their different needs to cope with
stress to feel good about themselves and
to get the support they will allow them
to have a better personal life as well
as to be more effective in the workplace
and it's you mentioned a lot about how
we have to do a bit of differences in
treating them because i know there's a
rule that many people believe that we
should just treat everybody equally men
and women in the workplace would you
agree with that
well
and from one perspective we should treat
everybody equally with respect
but everybody's different
and everybody has different talents and
skills
you know suddenly we've got jobs to do
and now everybody's going to take turns
doing those jobs no some people are
going to be better at some jobs other
people are going to be better at other
jobs that's very obvious so when it
comes to men and women that's not the
deciding factor but when it comes to how
to interact with a woman so that she
feels valued and appreciated and honored
and respected
there's extra insights that can provide
that support whether it be a co-worker
your boss your employee a customer
someone you're marketing to you're
always dealing with people's ability to
feel good and we want people to feel
good and motivated as opposed to feel
bad to try to motivate them i think our
new paradigm is how to help people feel
good and be motivated and that takes
into consideration what are their needs
and we understand from my books the
differences between men and women you
realize that certain things are more
important than men to cope with stress
certain things are more important to
women that cope with stress and when you
know that you create an environment
which is able to counteract the high
stress of our modern life today by being
able to go to a workplace where you feel
emotionally supported where you go to
your your
when you're in a store and you're buying
a product you know how are you treated
there does that that determines why you
go back to that store people don't
realize that you know people don't
always say i don't like the way you're
treating me they just don't come back to
your store
so you talk about stress and it sounds
like me like men women we deal with
stress very differently i'd like to be
able to focus let's start with women how
is it the distinctive way that women
deal with stress that we should be very
much aware in the workplace well this is
where it comes down to why men and women
are different because from a level of
consciousness really we all have
masculine feminine qualities to simplify
we could say a masculine equality is uh
confidence
and a feminine quality is trust
now to the undiscerning mind
confidence and trust sort of feel the
same
actually they're very very different
confidence is look what i can do
and trust is i have support to do what i
can do
and what we want is both
and when women don't feel trust
that they have the support they need
then their stress levels go up
when men don't have confidence that they
can do what's required to produce the
result they need and they get the
messages that they're doing that they
lose confidence their stress goes up so
just looking at those there's many other
parameters we can look at but the bottom
line is
masculine qualities if men aren't
grounded in their masculine qualities
then their stress will go up if women
are not being supported to be grounded
in their feminine qualities their stress
will go up so let's say a woman is very
confident in a job
but she doesn't trust anybody to help
her she'll get the job done but she's
not going to sleep that night she's
going to be worrying and she's going to
be stressing out and that's going to
eventually interfere with her
performance
okay she'll burn out and women are
burning out today a lot in the workplace
that's true and and so what would you
say is some of the biggest errors that
both men and women would be doing when
let's say interacting with
um with women in the workplace and you
know it's a stressful situation they're
not offering that trust is there a
common mistake that we often do that
actually doesn't help the situation
oh there's so many yeah
there's a big long list of
two books on this subject okay so the
the
it's it's there's an old paradigm but
the old paradigm worked for men in the
workplace and there's a lot of thought
today which is
uh
you know the workplace is against women
well workplace was against the people
that were was is for the people that
used to be in the workplace all the
rules of the workplace are really
designed
to support
masculine qualities and it's also to
support the best environment for men
because women weren't in it so it's it's
all the rules so to speak are there to
support men and women don't feel
supported quite often because these
rules are not there to support her and
but it's not personal it's not like
somebody said let's create a bunch of
rules that won't support women
it's just like the men were doing that
while the women were pregnant and so
forth and staying in the home they
weren't doing the work for money thing
they were working for love and so it's a
difference it's a whole two different
planets here so it's not like it's
against women but it doesn't have a
consciousness of women need and that's
what we need to bring in at the
workplace for men a greater awareness of
what women
require to have a more positive
experience and for women to understand
what men
why men don't provide that for them
because they're oblivious they don't you
know you can easily take it personally
when you're feeling ignored by someone
but if you understand men you realize
that well what men do when they're
focused on a problem is they tend to
forget everything else including you
and when women have a problem what they
do is they tend to expand and be more
inclusive of others and so if we
understand these are sort of natural
tendencies
when they show up they don't always show
up
but when they show up you don't take it
so personally
for example one of the ways that women
will
feel good and stimulate and this is
actually very biological it's not just
psychological it is psychological it is
conditioning it is nurturing that makes
us this way so to speak but it's also
nature there's it's both because there
is this biological
reality which is very different for men
and women certain interactions raise the
stress hormones in women that might
relax the hormones for men a simple
example of that is when i drive fast i
relax my wife gets stressed
it's as simple as that
risk and danger actually stimulate
testosterone
lowers stress and men helps men to
effectively cope with stress until they
lose confidence
then risk in danger without confidence
his testosterone turns to estrogen and
his stress goes up
now for women
risk and danger basically will stimulate
testosterone in her
but what testosterone does for women is
it lowers their estrogen
and estrogen is the hormone that women
need for well-being
so you see how these women today are
actually taking estrogen or taking drugs
because the antidepressants and anxiety
pills and sleeping pills and everything
because their hormones are out of
balance often they have to now they're
not taking hormones as opposed to
learning how to make those hormones the
workplace can be a setting that supports
women in producing more estrogen and
other female hormones progesterone
oxytocin and
for men it's a place which is really
designed to promote testosterone and
what as we look into the masculine and
feminine qualities then we can start
creating an environment which is more
habitable and supportive for women in
the workplace without having to sort of
kick all the men out which in some
environments get rid of the guys that
just have women and they kind of have
their way of doing things or the guys
have their way of doing things
the workplace will always flourish when
you get an integration of masculine and
feminine because that is
it's a it's true it's true that all of
us have a male and female side and when
those two sides come forth in harmony
then we're in flow and then we're in a
creative state then our hearts are open
and our minds are clear we can achieve
our goals we don't have the stress that
impedes success and that's the whole
thing is keep the stress levels down
keep our hearts open keep our minds open
and then we're working together to
produce the desired result
as soon as our hearts close we're not
doing that
wow
you're going through so much content in
one sentence and one snap i love it and
this to me it's like it's music to my
ears because you know i'm i'm fairly new
within the workplace and what i found
fascinating is thinking about how it's
this whole industrial form
industrialized format of working and
women joining the workforce it's
actually quite recent in the history of
humanity that this has happened and just
just to make that point again yeah is so
so significant
never ever and
thousands million eons men and women did
not work side by side they had their
separate roles and the roles that women
had traditionally actually are behaviors
that stimulate estrogen safety oxytocin
socializing
working for love stimulates progesterone
estrogen oxytocin these are the hormones
that have to be
in balance with with their testosterone
to keep their stress low but a man this
is biological truth a man requires
10 to 30 to 40 times more testosterone
depending on the man
in order to keep his stress levels down
a woman requires 10 to 20 times more
estrogen than men
in order to keep her stress down so the
bottom line if we want to lower stress
for women and men in the workplace we
want to have new skills that have never
ever been even thought of weren't
necessary and that's why they're new
somebody would figure this out before
but they didn't need it because women
were over here doing this thing which
was jobs that had to do with nurturing
loving
cooperation collaboration sensitivity
uh interdependence
and and mothering all that was feeding
you know all that stuff is all estrogen
producing and so women had a greater
sense of well-being than women today we
see today high levels of stress in women
and it's even proven we do tests to test
the hormones women are way more stressed
than ever before and the irony is the
more educated a woman is
the more financially successful a woman
is
the more stressed she is now that's not
every woman okay there's going to be
women go oh i'm happy okay okay so okay
so go ahead and be defensive
even get angry with me
and then you you're not happy so but the
but this is just a reality is that
that the progress we've made is
fantastic equality is the basis of
evolution i mean this higher level that
we've gotten to but
with every new change we have to work
out what works and what doesn't work and
so we haven't worked out how to keep the
stress levels down
and so what we see is is the
amount of burnout amount of
dissatisfaction a lot of in the amount
of inefficiency uh and the problems in
at home because when this workplace is
so stressful you bring that home
and and if you don't have personal
relationship skills all my many other
books
that provides the foundation to to come
to the workplace without stress because
there's certain stresses in the
workplace that you go to your personal
life to let them go to forget them so
you come back rejuvenated i i love
framing this into a model of reality
which is actually to say that we need to
acknowledge that we are in extremely
transitionary times relationships yes
yes crisis and danger and opportunity
the friction the evolution everything's
happening right now which actually ties
into my next question really well
which is one of the problems that we see
and i i i like to possibly frame it as a
rule maybe as a challenge to the current
reality but
you know we've heard the phrase the
glass ceiling and you look at the you
know the upper echelon of an
organization you will see there's a
predominance of male and so i'd be
wondering to know is this something that
we should we can be actively challenging
are there certain ways that we could
look at that scenario to encourage women
to actually have more positions of power
with an organization
well you said a really good thing there
to encourage women at places of power
actually in america there's way more
middle management as women than men
and then you get the very top level
which are called workaholics
and you know to talk about glass ceiling
it's to me it's kind of silly because
there's a glass ceiling that keeps you
out and me out and
99.9 of all men are also kept out of the
glass ceiling
so it's not just a hundred percent of
women
99.9 percent of men are also not getting
to the glass ceiling this is a very
small club up there
uh so let's just put that in perspective
because without that perspective it's
kind of like men are against women and
there's no men are not against men women
men go to war to save the lives of women
you know we are these great guys and
there's a few guys that are willing to
give up a personal life in order to
achieve
workaholic status to be beyond the glass
ceiling okay so this is this small elite
group who work all the time who have
very patient wives who they probably
have no sex anymore
but they have a family and they love
each other and so forth but that's the
price you pay and and my studies of this
and we we did interviews with 200 000
men and women in one of my books work
with me and that's with my co-author
barbara annis and
in that
we quote many many studies and we did
our own study and so forth and some of
the results of that are you talk to
women and i've talked to so many uh
women who are very successful
and say do you want to be the top level
you know do you feel kept out and
there's so many women says why would i
want to work a hundred hours a week
there's a certain thing that happens
with women that's very common there's
gonna be exceptions to this exception is
everything we're there's everything's on
a bell curve we're talking about
the major part you talk to a woman and
if she's making and you don't have to be
beyond the glass ceiling to be making
100 or 150 000
okay so that's still management and good
job whatever
when women get to that place their
security
and their survival is taken care of
then suddenly women have a new a new
priority other than becoming more money
their priority is more time more love
more quality of a personal life women
have that wisdom some men have it i have
it for sure but many men the ones that
get to the top are missing the wisdom
that life is not just about making money
life is also about being of service life
is about love life is about fun life is
about being with your children you know
and that takes time
so you just have to do the math if
you're doing 100 hours of work every day
and that's what's expected you know when
you're in a law firm and you want to be
a partner you got to put in 100 hours a
week i mean it's given up your life and
see women have a greater wisdom
to not do that and there's some
practicalities that go with that you
know in my work
as a man and my wife and our little
children there's something about the way
men and women relate which is if my wife
tells me what happened with the children
today because she tells me i feel like
i was there
because men sort of enter into women
basically so she's talking about i feel
like i'm part of it but if she's at work
and i'm at home saying you know it's so
sweet you know she took her first steps
today
she really feels like she missed out not
that i wouldn't feel like i missed out
on certain things you know somebody else
taught my child how to ride a bicycle i
want to be the one to teach them to ride
the bicycle but but there's clearly you
know a kind of a standard thing of the
kids call and the wife talks and the
husband goes well she says it all why
should i get on the phone and do it all
over again so you know hand the phone to
the wife and certainly men are becoming
more connected as nurturers which is a
beautiful beautiful thing but to a
certain extent it's easier on most men
to be away from your children
without with with your wife being there
with your children because then you feel
you're there and turn that around and
i'm talking right from clinical
experience here this is just
she's at work and he's at home and she
misses those kids and she starts to
resent that she's not able to be with
those kids
it's a much different different
situation because you know those kids
came out of her it's a big difference so
i like to frame that as a model of
reality here saying that you know the
glass ceiling is actually not just
pushing women away from these top
positions it's actually you have to
realize the people that are in this
position when you mention that the first
thing that i thought about was actually
an article written by an ex-wife of elon
musk and said what it was like to be
with a man that constantly is focused on
pushing humanity towards an
interplanetary species and the man has
no life he works and all the time and so
something to realize is it's not a
it's not a movement of men against women
it's just a choice and a predisposition
and a typical trajectory for men who are
very i guess testosterone focused are
okay with making that life choice when
it's not necessarily the most wise at
all times yeah and you know you hear
this thing about men particularly those
men and as they get older and they're on
their deathbed they have a lot of regret
and ironically it's because if they're
older it's a natural thing for men's
estrogen to increase as we get older and
that's called wisdom
wisdom comes from estrogen okay and and
so we soften as we get older the problem
for men again is is they stop working
since we're talking about men and women
in the workplace men should never stop
working work is work for money
is the major testosterone producer in
our world today
you know which is a challenge for me i
don't need to work for money so then you
really have to be clear that you're
working
uh
to
help the world okay but uh i still work
for money too even though i don't need
it i work there's something in our
society you get paid it means you did a
really good job and that's just our
conditioning out there and and so i like
to get paid and it feels good to get
paid and if i stop working and just
going to go play golf this is the
insurance companies will tell you that
you've got three years to live
that's on average there's going to be
exceptions men have to work you have to
do you have to get up when you don't
feel like it
and do something you have to sacrifice
you have to
put your will over the pleasure see
pleasure as your female side will to do
to serve to solve is your masculine side
and if the pleasure side gets more than
the will side you become weak you become
grumpy old men so you see grumpy old men
who are dying because they stop working
so this is like really important that
men have they have to work and they need
to receive recognition and appreciation
for what they do the key to it is the
love the appreciation you know if i do a
job and somebody says great job thank
you so much you made a difference in my
life that's what keeps me young that's
what keeps me healthy that's what keeps
me motivated it's feeling appreciated
and valued for what you do now for a
woman's male side she needs to be
appreciated and valued for what she does
however
she's
that's her male side her female side
needs to feel that she's included
that she's heard
that she's appreciated that she's seen
that she's a part of the team
and and even when i say the word
appreciated really she needs to feel
respected that's the most important
thing for women is respect everybody you
know what will happen for women and this
is part of one of my books in the
workplace is women often complain
one of the top complaints women have is
i don't feel appreciated
and so then i analyze that and i help
them understand actually what your
complaint is is you don't feel included
if you were included you would feel
appreciated but the problem is you're
not feeling occluded because you say to
a man i don't feel like you appreciate
me he goes he doesn't know what you're
talking about i mean women are amazing i
have all these women working for me i
appreciate them totally and if they say
i don't feel appreciated i go what are
you talking about and this was actually
my first revelation when it came to
understanding differences between men
and women started in the workplace so it
goes back you know 35 years ago when my
assistant helen who ran my business i
was a counselor and seminar teacher she
put on the events she got the hotels she
got the clients she she got paid she put
in my bank account she handled
everything paid all my bills so who
wouldn't appreciate that and it was a no
drama
relationship she just got it done and
she was always happy and it looked i
mean it's like there's nothing better i
thought i was in heaven with this lady
and so she worked for me about six years
at that point and then she said you know
i i wanna it's time for me to leave i'm
quitting
i said why
and
and she said i don't feel appreciated
and i thought to myself
what and i said to her why don't you
feel appreciated help me understand that
better magic phrase for every man to
know in the workplace and at home any
time a woman talks
you want to create more estrogen for her
want to help lower her stress
don't speak right away instead say help
me understand that better
get clear about every place she's coming
from and then say tell me more let them
know they're welcome to express
themselves they're part of the team
anyway so i didn't know all that then i
just knew that i appreciated her i paid
her very well she just got a raise a few
months before i said you didn't get paid
enough she doesn't know i could play
plenty you're very generous
and i said well why don't you feel
appreciated she says you don't know what
i do
and i thought that's why i appreciate
you so much
i don't have to know what you do you
just get it all done
so then i said to her say well don't
don't quit yet give me two weeks because
i heard what she said she does
she said i don't know what she did so i
started finding out what she did and i
took five to ten minutes every day
when i would come in i'd just check in
with her we had check in what's going on
what are you doing today and what are
your reactions to this and the secret to
it is you know she'd say oh i still have
to call that hotel they're not getting
back to me they changed things and i
said oh it must be so frustrating put a
little little validation into it you
know and then the next day say well did
you talk to the hotel did they get
through and let her complain a little
bit let her express herself a little bit
let her talk about her victories a
little bit let her say oh i stayed up
all last night trying to finish that
thing i couldn't get to oh my god you
stayed up all night night just
acknowledge what she did and what she
goes through kind of like for men that's
not important for us it's kind of like
look what i did yeah appreciate what i
did and you know i'm not going to say oh
this was so hard for me and i did this
it's like we're getting a no piece of
cake i'd handled it you know i'm the man
i can get it done but for her for a
woman she wants to be acknowledged
that's her male side for the outcome but
she wants the journey
to be understood
and and and
she wants you to be included in that
process now some there's always going to
be exceptions on this bell curve there's
some women who just are like a guy you
know just leave me alone let me do my
job and whatever and unfortunately
though they're going to be more stressed
they're too far on their male side
they're making testosterone so they
don't know that they need to make
estrogen on the other side it's kind of
like you don't know you like something
until you experience it
there's so much today that women don't
know
that what would make them feel good
until they've actually experienced it
and the same thing for men you know the
thing that builds testosterone in men is
when somebody says good job
wow you really made a difference in my
life oh you're here and then what a guy
will say oh you don't need to say
anything you don't need to say no no big
deal no big deal well men do that
because it's again as human beings when
we have a really important need and it
doesn't get fulfilled it's too painful
to continue feeling that so we go into
denial so men go into denial ah i don't
need the appreciation oh you don't have
to say anything i can do it myself we
need applause okay and women need
applause too but more what women need is
to know what they do to have empathy for
what they do to
see what they do to offer support for
what they do to be involved and this
goes in so many different layers if i've
got if i'm selling a stereo to a woman
in a and it's in a stereo shop you know
she's buying a sound system
what a guy will tend to do let's say
you're a guy you come to me i know you
need testosterone so i'm going to go
okay
you know
what is it that you're interested in
buying you know you might say something
like that well i know the very best one
you know i've been doing this 25 years
i've sold more steriles than anybody in
history i've done this and this is like
your moderate price but this is your
like the best best one i know this will
work what i'm going to demonstrate to
another man is background competence
confidence i have the answer and a guy
will think oh good i don't have to worry
about it you know we're always going to
go with hey if he's an expert
i'll let him do it there's there's you
you
you boost yourself up with great
confidence and a man goes okay you know
he knows what he's doing then then he'll
pick this thing out and i'll get credit
for it that's what men want they want
credit and when we know we're not
experts at something then men will go
ask for help they'll find an expert and
they take credit because i found the
expert okay so basically you always you
know you know a bank is marketing
themselves you know we've got this much
money we do this we do this men are most
impressed by that women are impressed a
bit but what women are really looking
for and we saw this whole revolution
when men are from mars came out the
banks came to me for consulting for
marketing how do we market to women
because women are a big audience well
whether she's buying hysteria or going
to a bank or going to a consultant for
something you market yourself
differently by understanding her primary
emotional needs which are to feel that
you care
you have empathy you understand and you
respect
okay so you know even right now i'm
leaving my bank because i'm treated like
a number i've got all these personal
bankers wanting to work with me and so
forth take me out to lunch you know get
to know me whatever why should i be
treated like a number you know i'm one
of their best customers at my bank i'm
leaving them that's my female son
because we got both and and then when it
comes to making big decisions in the
workplace
where there could be fear of loss then a
man is going more to his estrogen side
then you need to use some of the skills
you would use with a woman which is show
more interest more understanding ask
more questions but in other settings
if you ask a lot of questions to a man
the man's kind of like you should know
that already you know just give me
answers they want answers solutions
whereas women they don't want your
answers and solutions right away they
want you to understand what they're
going through what their needs are and
even if you do understand that still
doesn't work they need to tell you and
once they've said it and they see your
response to it which is going to be a
sense of empathy and calm and focus on
her then she feels the understanding
then her estrogen comes up then she can
trust you
so everything in the business world
everything is confidence and trust you
need to have confidence demonstrate
confidence and that particularly
impresses men
which is i can do this and what would
most impress women is certainly some
confidence is good but more important is
that you're trustworthy
and so there's all kinds of ways to do
that
once you just you know if a man asks me
questions i got answers answers answers
if a woman asks me questions anywhere i
have any doubt i will purposely say i
don't know i'm going to find out
they love it when a man says i don't
know because they they know men think
that they know everything and they know
men don't so it's showing a little
vulnerability okay so i don't know and
think about the plight of men never
being able to admit that i don't know
imagine i'm the surgeon and i've got a
team of nurses helping me and and i kind
of say to my nurse uh gee i don't really
know what to do here would you what do
you think so you can't even ask for help
because everybody goes oh you know you
don't know what to do life and death
situation so there's no discussion
there's no learning there's no process
because
there's this whole thing for men you
have to know well particularly when
women around if you don't know
you should know a lot okay but you don't
have to know it all and you did not know
it all shows humility which creates
inclusiveness so you say i'll get back
to you on that wouldn't be a good time i
could call you probably next wednesday
around two o'clock on tuesday
and she might say oh yes or no and set
up a time
then you make that time exactly
because deep inside of every woman
there's always this question why does
any call back
and there's a woman that will go and
she'll be testing you you say you're
going to call it a certain time it's
going to be a little test it's going to
be let's see if he remembers let's see
if he remembers
no call exactly at the time call at the
time just keep your word about little
things when you keep your word about
little things women go oh if he keeps
his word about little things then he'll
really keep his word about the big stuff
men will think he's probably busy you
know with something he'll call me later
because it's a little thing to call
exactly at the right time not a big deal
and that's again one of the big
differences between men and women it's
the little things that make the
difference particularly for women the
big things that make the difference for
men okay well i'm going to make you all
this money why should i even talk to you
or treat you like a human being yeah i'm
the big shot here uh you know i i lost
uh you know three million dollars in a
deal one time investing in a company
that later became a company like google
and
the early investors and i brought in a
uh investment manager because for a
company go public you have to have
somebody who's actually done it before
gone public great reputation he's going
to be the ceo so i invested in this
company knowing that they all wanted my
my friend who was a ceo just sold a
company for 300 million so i'm like this
is all great good thing i'm gonna invest
in it all but i wasn't there when the
woman who developed this software from
ucla she was there with her board of
directors of men trying to convince her
that this ceo
could be
could be the ceo of the company so she
would say we're not like any other
company he says it doesn't matter we'll
get it done we'll get it done and she
said you don't understand he says no no
doesn't matter we can do this i've done
this before
three months we'll sell this place 300
million dollars we're on the road she
says no it doesn't work that easy you
know this is a complicated thing you
don't understand what we have to do he
didn't listen to her he was just
showboating he was just like i can
handle it i'll do better you know
believe me we can do this look what i've
done before totally turned her off and
the company went down it didn't sell
she tried to do it herself and nobody
would invest in the company it was just
but it was simply he didn't take the
time to listen to her because he was
bragging about himself and all the other
guys are salivating he can do it it was
just got a done deal and she just like a
bunch of men around they're not they
don't hear me they don't understand me
it's a it's a priority for women they
need to feel equals in the situation and
they have a set of instinctive rules
that women have had for thousands of
years which is sharing
so let's take another practical example
let's say i'm the boss and i have women
working for me so
helena works for me now so helena comes
in the office and she says oh there's
there's uh this traffic jam and the
parking lot all the time because some of
somebody's doing this and this and we
need to open this up we have to do you
know whatever the problem is uh so and
and so she's talking and talking and and
i'll just say oh just call so-and-so and
tell them not to park there
because she's talking a lot about the
problem i can get the problem in a
second and give a solution
so
if i do that as a as a boss
she'll walk she says yeah a good idea
she's already thought of that she's not
stupid but what women will do before
they give the solution is they want to
talk about the problem
and then they want to create a space for
you
to talk about the problem as you see it
we're going to cooperate here together i
wouldn't presume this is the woman
thinking i wouldn't presume to have all
the answers
together we come up with a better answer
but certainly i've already thought of
the one you just offered
but so he jumps in with his solution
again and again right away rather than
hearing her talk a little bit and then
talking about yeah i relate to that i
can see that you're right about that and
then instead of being the boss and
giving the solution
you say and what do you think we ought
to do about that give her the glory give
her the chance to express what she's
already thought but didn't say because
she's following venusian lot
venusian female etiquette
which is i wouldn't presume to just come
in and say do this
okay we're going to share in this so
she'll share the problem expecting me to
sort of go along with it then together
we come up with a better solution then
she could have come up on her own or
she'll say hers so men we if if you just
could just give the space whenever
there's a problem ask the woman well
what do you think we should do
and and if she wants to talk more about
how hard it is or whatever ask if you
help me understand that better and
validate that from another point of view
and then say what do you think we should
do and then you say well i think we
ought to do this you know and if you're
the boss you have the final line of
command so to speak but you've included
her in that process and that's what's
going to make the workplace a better
place for women and it's going to make
it a better place for solving problems
because you're looking at both the
female and male perspective being in my
business where i'm marketing the women
mainly
and actually i have half men write but
read my books but i market women are
your best marketers one piece of study
that we did not do that we found which
is amazing is if a woman's in a board
meeting or in a business meeting or
she's working for a company and she
doesn't feel appreciated and remember
when she doesn't feel appreciated
actually what's happening is she doesn't
feel seen heard respected understood and
cared for
so but she's not feeling appreciated
and she feels excluded they don't hear
what i have to say they don't value what
my points of view are whatever it is so
she'll leave that meeting or she'll
leave that time where she was
dissatisfied not feeling appreciated and
she'll tell 232 people
a woman who comes to your company is
dissatisfied will go out and tell 32
people this is what they found if she's
satisfied with your company if she likes
your company she's a raving fan of your
company she'll tell 32 people
unsolicited they are the marketers
they're basic marketers and a man if
he's dissatisfied he'll only tell three
people and only fast
because see it doesn't support
testosterone to go gee you know they
treat me bad
well you're probably a loser you know
men would have brag because bragging is
like what i did look what i did not like
look what i didn't do they don't even
ask me questions in the meetings he's
going to his female side and and that's
weak for men so they're not going to
naturally go there whereas women will
say oh you know they mistreat us they
don't ignore me they do this and another
you know it's like i was once at the
counter at united airlines and i was
really upset that they didn't tell me
that this this plane with the
instruments uh it was a thing they had
to repair and they kept us there saying
they were going to be able to fix it
until all the other planes had gone and
then they told us up it's going tomorrow
so everybody was so upset and i remember
this
woman at the counter basically going
this company is awful i cannot believe
they do that it's terrible that they do
that you know i've seen him do this
again
and she just she went in total empathy
and but that's not what i needed to hear
what i needed to hear is yes this is
really inconvenient to you and we're
gonna make it up to you we're gonna you
know go to our website you put it in you
put the flight number in you get a
reward for this and i'm terribly sorry
about this and you feel empathy but you
don't go into conclu a collusion that
this is a terrible company
you know it's like we're working on this
we want to make this a better service
for you so there's there's times and
places to express empathy and times not
this is all about understanding what
human beings need at a particular time
in a particular place
to represent the company in a positive
way but that the bottom line is if women
are not happy they market your lousy
company if women are happy they market
your happy company you're a great
company they are amazing and they have
all the money today
they're the ones that we need to make
sure that the workplace becomes a better
and better place for them
and not that it's a bad place for men
the idea is both people getting what
they need in the workplace
and when one of our studies we saw we
asked the women this is a big study we
asked the women do you feel appreciated
by men and over 60 of the women said no
and asked the men do you appreciate the
women you work with and 95 said totally
yeah and so the appreciation is there
but it's not communicated in a language
where women can feel that appreciation
because as i mentioned women will not
feel appreciated unless they feel
included unless they feel heard unless
they feel that their voice has been
heard so it's a matter of just being
more inclusive now let's say i'm this
really inclusive guy okay i'm this great
boss everybody loves me and so forth but
if i don't know this i'm in a business
meeting there's three guys and there's
three women one woman's a bit more i
call it
actually my daughter lauren and her
courses teaches it venus in blue versus
venus and pink it's just uh where you
are on the bell curve how much masculine
feminine qualities you're expressing
venus in blue is going to be a bit more
absurd and speak up whenever she has
something to say but venus in pink
which is a lot of women they're kind of
going to wait for you to ask them
men don't realize that because imagine
we're at this meeting of all men yeah
and every every guy's like in there like
we're like playing basketball grabbing
the ball trying to get credit i got this
idea well that's a good idea we got to
do this so man will throw the ball back
and forth like that and and so and i'm
leading this whole thing as my team of
guys and i notice this one guy's not
talking at all we'll call him bill yeah
nobody's gonna say hey bill you haven't
said anything what do you think because
that will embarrass bill because we all
know that if bill has something smart to
say he'll say it
that's how men are yeah so out of
kindness and compassion we don't point
out
bill you're not saying anything what do
you think you would actually think that
you're putting them on the spot that's
right exactly exactly so now let me put
some women in the group okay now we've
got a bunch of guys we're all talking
venus in blue she's in there but we got
a venus in pink over here
and she's not saying anything she's
listening listening listening and we
just and so i'm not going to want to put
her on the spot and say well venus and
pink you haven't said anything what do
you think i don't want to embarrass her
but actually
she's waiting for you to notice
she's obviously not saying anything and
she's communicating to you nobody's
asking me what i think so that's where
with some this knowledge you realize
you've got women and men they're all
assets you want everybody to contribute
it's differences coming together to
create a new whole
and so you know on our team it'd be
marcy and marcy i would just say so
marcy you have so much experience with
this what do you think about this and
she'll sort of takes her a moment to
sort of shift from this
basketball game to pulling forth her
ideas and she always brings forth
something wow you know just came out of
the blue it's another perspective it
enriches the whole perspective it's not
like it's always the thing we're gonna
do it adds to what we're gonna do and uh
it's a resource that we don't use
because we don't know it's there and
that's another aspect of it you know
then there's aspects of women managers
over men
a whole scene you know a
misunderstanding there you've got the
kind of the helicopter parent you get
the helicopter manager where she's
constantly asking men questions and in
our big survey we asked men
what is your biggest complaint about
women okay and
90 about 80 percent or 90 of men said
they asked too many questions
particularly women leaders and bosses
they come in your face the way a man
feels it well why are you doing that why
don't you do this and often women will
use rhetorical questions or questioning
sometimes rhetorical to make a point
other times they'll ask questions to
lead a man to agree with them
but don't you think it would be better
if we did it like this
and he's going to go no
but really don't you see this and this
she's trying to convince him with her
questioning to agree with her so we all
agree
but what she doesn't know is that men
are very hierarchical
i'm okay if you're the boss you're the
final word here's my ideas tell me that
makes sense tell me it's a good idea and
this is what we're gonna do and it's
something different thank me for my
contribution but i respect if you're the
boss you have the final line whereas
you'll get women who are bosses it's
kind of like well let's not decide till
we all agree that's not the business
world that's not how it works
and and men will take offense at that i
don't mind doing it your way but it's
your way don't make it it doesn't have
to be my way okay but you're the leader
so i will follow the lead you know and
we'll men are amazing for doing that
it's like we have some gene that says
well if i don't have to do it great let
somebody else do it you know
so
these are all subtleties so you get a
woman manager she'll ask a lot of
questions she'll involve herself she'll
give instructions and you could do it
better there's a there's a gene inside
of women i
playfully talk about it men are from
mars is the home improvement gene
no matter how good something is let's
make it better and that's part of the
contribution that women make to the
workplace is no matter how good it is we
can make it better because this is
improvement improvement improvement is a
great thing the male side of us is well
if it's not broken don't fix it just
leave it the way it is you know i have a
very very successful website and my my
daughter who's half the website she
wants to improve it you know we got this
big huge improvement thing going and
we're about to move into it i'm kind of
like it's doing so great just the way it
is do we want to change it you know if
not broken
she's oh it could be so much better dad
it's gonna be so much better
so that's the male and the female and so
it's always bringing these worlds
together which is if it's not broken
don't fix it but everything can always
get better and better so it's this is
again respecting the differences and
and taking time to recognize that
my way combined with another way is
going to be better that's the secret to
this
guys you've been with us and we've been
hearing you john it's
no question how much you know so much
depth into this subject it's amazing i'm
listening here and we're on a studio
here and i'm seeing everybody that's
around and on the set we're all peering
in i've
never thought of looking at so many
situations in the way that you've just
described if you guys notice we
transition to systems for living quite
seamlessly and you've heard so many
different examples that i'd love for you
to think about when you're in the
workplace how does that apply what are
the situations i'm sure many of you are
listening and going oh wow that
situation and start thinking about it in
a very different way
john this this was amazing and you know
it's i i'm here and i'm just in awe
because every single situation you've
mentioned for me i went like oh my god i
remember this example oh my god i
remember this example and i'm sure
there's a lot of people that are
listening that went through the same
process and what i wanted to do to close
this off and first off everyone who's
listening in
this is just the tip of the iceberg of
what we can cover in this episode if you
want to have so much more insights from
john not just in the workplace but in
every scenario in understanding when you
want to have an understanding of how men
work how women work go to marsvenus.com
he has so many articles so much content
there that you can go deep into any of
these subject even further than what
we've done today already this was
absolutely wonderful and i did want to
bring it to
a really fun question to actually close
off this interview and i wanted to ask
you what do you think is going to be the
future of the workplace how do you see
this because we are in these turbulent
times if we're advancing let's say 20
years from now how do you see us men and
women living in the workplace and
working together
increased harmony increased productivity
increased success increased respect
increased employment for everybody and a
workplace that has less hours creating
space for people to have more fulfilling
personal relationships
with personal relationships we're able
to bring more love into the workplace
creates a fairer place a more positive
place and a creative place that can
solve the problems of this world
beautiful john thank you so much for
your time i hope you guys had as much
time watching this episode as i've had
being part of it thank you
you