>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY, WELCOME BACK.
FOLKS, MY NEXT GUEST HAS BEEN REPORTING FROM FRONT LINES
ACROSS THE WORLD FOR OVER 50 YEARS, NOW CNN CHIEF
INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT. PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO THE LATE
SHOW CLARISSA WARD. (APPLAUSE)
>> THIS IS SO FUN. I'M LIKE FLABBERGASTED BY HOW
MUCH FUN IT IS, I'M NOT USED TO HAVING THIS MUCH FUN.
>> Stephen: NO, NO, YOU REALLY AREN'T.
THIS IS THE FOURTH TIME THAT WE HAVE DONE AN INTERVIEW.
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU HAVE BEEN IN PERSON.
IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ON A BATTLE FIELD OR A RECENT BATTLE FIELD
OR SOME TRAGIC DOWN FALL SOME PLACE.
>> YEAH. >> Stephen: DO YOU ENJOY THIS
MORE? >> THIS IS ALMOST MORE
OVERWHELMING. BUT I DIDN'T FALL OVER.
THAT WAS MY BIG FEAR. I WAS LIKE I'M WEARING HEELS.
I'M NOT USED TO. THIS.
>> Stephen: DO YOU NOT WEAR HEELS IN THE FIELD.
>> NO, NOT USUALLY. >> Stephen: IT IS TROUBLE WITH
THE RUBBLE. >> EXACTLY, EXACTLY.
TOWN BECAUSE THE NEWS EMMYS >> Stephen: WELL, ARE YOU IN ARE
COMING. SO YOU ARE NOMINATEDDED FOR
THREE. CONGRATULATIONS FOR THAT.
>> I'VE BEEN PERFECTING MY >> THANK YOU. CLAP
FOR WHEN YOU DON'T WIN AND YOU HAVE TO DO THE CLAP WHERE YOU
LOOK REALLY FEAP FOR ITS OTHER PERSON.
>> Stephen: SURE, THAT WOULD BE KIND OF ENTERTAINING IF YOU
WERE THE ONE PERSON WHO WANT. >> I THINK I MIGHT-- .
>> Stephen: DO IT, JUST DO IT. OKAY.
LAST WEEK PUTIN ANNOUNCED A LAST WEEK, LET'S GETS TO-- PARTIAL
MOBILIZATION. >> YEP.
>> Stephen: AND HE IS FAINING THIS GOING IN AN ORDERLY
WE HAVE GOTTEN REPORT, PROCESS. POSSIBLY
FROM YOU, I DON'T KNOW. WE HAVE GOTTEN REPORTS THAT IN
PLANNED, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO FACT THERE REALLY IS NO MAKE THIS
HAPPEN. WHAT DO WE KNOW SO FAR ABOUT
WHAT IS HAPPENING IN RUSSIA? >> WE KNOW IT SAY DISASTER.
AS YOU ELUDED TO IN YOUR INTRODUCTION N YOUR MONOLOGUE,
THESE GUYS BEING RECRUITED TO THIS IS NOT SEAL TEAM SIX, GO
DRUNK, A LOT OF THEM HAVE NO THERE, A LOT OF THEM ARE MILITARY
A LOT OF THEM ARE JUST EXPERIENCE. ORDINARY
YOUNG GUYS WHO HAVE NO DESIRE WHATSOEVER TO GO AND FIGHT AND
DIE IN A WAR THAT THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN.
AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT A LOT
OF RUSSIANS I THINK HAVE BEEN PRETTY SANGUINE ABOUT THE WAR IN
UKRAINE, AS LONG AS IT STAYED ON THEIR TELEVISION SETS.
>> Stephen: PUTIN WANTED IT THAT WAY.
>> THAT IS HOW HE WANTS IT. THERE IS A REASON HE WAITED ALL
THIS TIME BEFORE TAKING THIS STEP.
BECAUSE HE UNDERSTANDS THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME NOW, RUSSIANS
THAT EVERYTHING THEY HAVE REALLY GET IT. BUILT
FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS IS NOW IN JEOPARDY.
AND IT COULD BE A WHOLE GENERATION BEFORE THEY WILL BE
ABLE TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES. AND I HAVE TALKED TO FRIENDS IN
RUSSIA WHO ARE JUST SOBBING BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT
THIS IS REALLY CROSSING THE RUBICON.
AGAIN. AND YOU ARE ALREADY AND IT WON'T BE THE SAME SEEING
AND OF COURSE YOU THEN SEE PEOPLE PROTESTING. THIS
VELLIAN A APPROACH TO DEALING INCREDIBLE, I MEAN MACK WITH THE
PROTESTERS WHAT IS THE SICKEST THING YOU CAN DO TO THEM, LET'S
SUMONS, SO PEOPLE WHO ARE GETS PUNISH THEM BY ISSUING DRAFT A
PROTESTS IN MOSCOW ARE BEING RESTED IN SOME OF THESE THEN SUM
MONDAYED TO GO AND SERVE. AND ARE YOU SEEING PROTESTS IN
OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY. THEY DELIBERATELY ZEROED IN ON
PARTS OF THE COUNTRY THAT ARE NOT ETHNICALLY RUSSIAN.
AND THAT IS DEEPLY CYNICAL AND ARE YOU SEEING A REALLY STRONG
>> WHEN YOU SAY THE PEOPLE RESPONSE FROM PEOPLE. THAT
YOU KNOW FROM RUSSIA ARE LOOKING AT HORROR, THE POSSIBILITY THAT
EVERYTHING THEY BUILT OVER PO YEARS COULD BE GONE, SINCE THE
FALL OF THE IRON CURTAIN, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN THAT CAN IT COULD
BE LOST WHAT COULD BE LOST IN THIS FOR THEM S THAT PUTIN HAS
RISKED THEIR NATIONAL SECURITY, HAS RICKED THEIR STANDING IN THE
WORLD, THEY GET KICKED OUT OF THE BANKING SYSTEM, THEY HAD THE
RUBLE CRUMBLE. WHAT IS IT THEY COULD LOSE IF
PUTIN LOSES THE WARNESS YOU HIT ON THE TWO CENTRAL THINGS.
THE BIG PART OF THE SOCIAL CONTRACT THAT PUTIN MADE WITH
THE PEOPLE AS HE ROSE WAS THIS IDEA OF STABILITY, COMING OUT OF
AND ALSO SELF-RESPECT AND THE CHAOS OF THE 1990. BEING
ABLE TO HOLD YOUR HEAD UP EYE ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE.
BOTH OF THOSE THINGS NOW HAVE EFFECTIVELY BEING COR ROADED.
>> NOW THE REFERENDUM THAT PUTIN HAS CALLED IN THESE BREAKAWAY
REGIONS IN EASTERN UKRAINE, OR SUPPOSEDLY BREAKAWAY REGIONS OF
UKRAINE WHAT IS THE UPSIDE FOR HIM FOR DOS THIS?
BECAUSE IT CLEARLY APPEARS TO BE A SHAM ELECTION AT GUNPOINT, SO
NO DOUBT WILL SAY IT WAS 97% IN FAVOR.
>> HE ALREADY HAS. >> THE RESULTS HAVE COME OUT.
SHOCKING NEWS, GUYS. >> Stephen: WHAT IS THE
>> I BELIEVE IT WAS 96 RESULT. PERCENT,
97 PERCENT, 98 PERCENT AND MAYBE LIKE 95.
THERE WERE FOUR DIFFERENT REGIONS.
BUT EFFECTIVELY WHAT THIS IS, THIS IS A SMOKE SCREEN FOR
ANNEXATION SO THEN RUSSIAN CAN SAY ALL THESE PARTS OF UKRAINE
ARE NOW EFFECTIVELY PART OF RUSSIA.
SO ANY ATTACK ON THESE AREAS IS NO LONGER AN ATTACK ON UKRAINIAN
TERRITORY OR EVEN DISPUTED TERRITORY.
THIS IS A DIRECT ATTACK ON RUSSIA.
AND THAT IS WHY HE CAME OUT AND GAVE THIS SORTED OF VERY OMINOUS
WARNING ABOUT NOT BEING AFRAID TO USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
>> Stephen: HOW SERIOUSLY. HE SAYS I'M NOT BLUFFING WHICH
SAN ODD THING FOR SOMEONE TO SAIRKS ESPECIALLY A WORLD LEADER
DEALING WITH WEAPONS THAT COULD DESTROY EVERYTHING.
FROM WHAT YOU KNOW OF RUSSIA BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LONG
RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT COUNTRY. YOU WERE ABC'S CHIEF
CORRESPONDENT FOR RUSSIA FOR YEARS.
SHOULD WE-- IS HE BLOFFING-- BLUFFING.
I THOUGHT HI MORE TO THAT QUESTION.
>> THAT IS IT. >> Stephen: I DON'T KNOW WHAT
>> I PRAY HE IS BLUFFING BUT IS BEYOND THAT. NO
BLUFFING AND EVERYONE SHOULD ONE SHOULD ASSUME HE IS BE PREPARED
FOR WHAT HAPPENS IF HE IS NOT BLUFFING.
I HAVE TALKED TO HARD-LINERS INSIDE RUSSIA WHO SUPPORT THE
USE OF, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY A TACTICAL NUKE, FOR EXAMPLE,
BECAUSE THEY SAY IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR RUSSIA AT THIS
STAGE TO REINJECT FEAR INTO THE BATTLE SPACE.
PROVIDE THEM ENOUGH TIME TO >> Stephen: AND IT WOULD GET
THIS MOBILIZATION GOING. BECAUSE IF IT IS YOU KNOW, THE
PAYOFF THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED, THEN THEY NEED SOMETHING TO KEEP
UKRAINIANS FROM ADVANCING. >> THE IRONY IS NONE OF THIS IS
LIKELY, EVEN THE MOST EXTREME NUBBING LEER-- NUKES, FOR
EXAMPLE, NONE OF THAT IS GOING TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THE
DYNAMIC ON THE BATTLE FIELD. I THINK WHAT RUSSIA IS REALLY
HOPING TO DO IN THE LONG RUN OR CERTAINLY MANY ANALYSTS BELIEVE
THIS, IS THEY JUST WANT TO KEEP THIS BLINDING AND GRINDING AND
GRINDING FOR AS LONG AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN.
BECAUSE THE ONE THING THEY ARE BETTER AT THAN MOST OTHERS IS
SUFFERING. AND SO THEY HAVE A VERY HIGH
PAIN THRESHHOLD. AND THEY'RE REALLY HOPING THAT
IF THEY CAN MAXIMIZE THIS, KEEP IT GOING AS LONG AS POSSIBLE,
THAT THEY WILL START TO SEE SUPPORT WANTING FOR UKRAINE.
WHAT THEY HAVEN'T BANKED ON AND WHAT I HAVE BEEN COVERING FOR 20
YEARS APP I HAVE SEEN OVER AN OVER AGAIN, THE PEOPLE WHO WIN
USUALLY ARE THE PEOPLE WHOSE HEARTS ARE IN IT THE PEOPLE WHO
BELIEVE IT, THEY FEEL IT, THEY FIGHT FOR IT.
>> Stephen: LET'S TALK ABOUT FEELING AND FIGHTING.
YOU'VE ALSO REPORTED FROM IRAN IN THE PAST.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF WHAT IS GOING ON THERE WITH THE PROTESTS
QUESTION OF THE LEADERSHIP, IN ITS STREETS AND THE ESPECIALLY
THE WOMEN PROTESTING IN THE STREET.
>> ST EXTRAORDINARY THE BRAVERY OF THESE WOMEN.
I MEAN NEXT LEVEL. A 22 YEAR OLD WOMAN IS
REPORTEDLY BEATEN TO DEATH FOR DARING TO SHOW HER HAIR.
AND THIS GROUND SWELL THAT YOU HAVE SEEN OF WOMEN GOING OUT AND
PULLING OFF THEIR HEAD SCARFS AND DEMANDING TO NO LONGER BE
SECOND CLASS CITIZENS, EFFECTIVELY, AND RISKING
THEIR LIVES, THEIR EVERYTHING. LIVELIHOODS,
AND THE IDEA OF HOW THEIR SECURITY. FRIGHTERNING
THAT IS TO THESE MAJORITY OF GERIATRIC MEN WHO HAVE BEEN
RULING IRAN FOR FOUR DECADES. NOW I'M NEVER GOING TO GET A
BUT IT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY VISIONA. THING
TO SEE. >> Stephen: CLARISSA THANK YOU
SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE, GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> THANK YOU. >> Stephen: YOU CAN WATCH
CLARISSA ON CNN. HER BOOK IS NOW AVAILABLE IN
PAPERBACK. CLARISSA WARD, EVERYBODY.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.