[Music]
hello and welcome to scishow talk show
the day on scishow where we talk to
interesting people about interesting
stuff today I'm joined by a hydrologist
casey ryan who works here in montana
studying water and how it moves a rat i
you're gonna have to give me a just a
quick explanation of what hydrologist
still you're exactly right hank so so
hydrology is the study of water
basically um if you want to unpack that
and expand it a little bit hydrologist
study the occurrence the distribution
the circulation and the properties of
water of the earth and also of the
atmosphere well i mean that sounds
important I feel pretty reliant on water
like as if I didn't have it I would die
fairly quickly both in terms of like
needing it for my own personal use but
also I think that it's pretty important
for the fer Lake ecosystems also for
agriculture so that's pretty important
set of things to understand yeah I like
to think so and you talked about a
really great thing Hank and that is that
water is our most important resource on
earth right as you alluded to we all
rely on it and we all depend on it yeah
and as our tribal elders tell us there's
no substitute and there's no replacement
yeah so that is why I thought Water
Resources and water management was such
a cool professional field to get into
you yeah and why I enjoy it and anyway I
think it's important so you work with
the tribe I do so I work with
Confederated Salish and Kootenai tribes
in western Montana so we are housed on
the 1.3 million acre Flathead Indian
Reservation in western Montana yeah I'm
been there it's a beautiful place yeah
so on a day to day basis what are you
doing to keep tabs on it to like what
are you learning from what you what like
you have like water measurement stations
I assume all over the place yeah of
course it's really the great it's being
a hydrologist it's a great job if you'd
like to be outside right right guys in
the summer this time of year when
everything is beautiful outside and it's
nice and warm there's lots of field work
that we need to go do and then in the
winter when it's negative 20 or 30 here
in western Montana there's lots of
paperwork to do you need to analyze yeah
the water isn't doing anything it's Nick
right there frozen on the surface
especially in January it's very cold
it does and so you're keeping tabs on
what's going on with the water on the
reservation what do you do with that
information so what we do Hank is we
have water resources program and that's
housed within the natural resources
department of the Confederated Salish
Kootenai tribes and so we really we
really do several things one of them is
we measure water so we have a water
measurement program mm-hmm and that
involves 83 gauges that we have spread
throughout the reservation mm-hmm and we
really do three things with these water
gauges we measure water where it's
coming from where it is and where it's
going across the reservation right and
that changes from year to year I imagine
knowing from day to day and for a minute
that's one of the things about water in
the West yeah so we can use that data to
help inform agriculture agriculture of
course is a very big part of the economy
here in western Montana and it's very
big up on the reservation as well
there's a lot of irrigated acres over
130,000 irrigated acres on the
reservation so we have over 1300 miles
of canal on the reservation they conveys
water to farmers and ranchers mm-hmm and
we have gauges that tell us where that
water is in real time and so what we can
do with that data Hank is we can help to
make water measurement decisions so that
we are allocating water to the right
place at the right time but also making
sure that we leave enough water in the
streams mm-hm for the fish and for
recreation absolutely so that's one of
the things you do I fell like you said
there were three that's just one of the
things that we help protect fisheries so
they have several species both of
cultural concern and also some species
that are on the threatened and
endangered list so for example bull
trout it's like the grizzly bear of fish
it requires very cold clean complex and
connected ecosystems right it's a
threatened and endangered species and so
federally we're mandated to protect it
but we also have a cultural imperative
to protect the bull trout the bull trout
are species of particular cultural
importance to us in fact if you look at
a map of traditional Salish place names
we have more places that are named
enough
bull trout than any other plant or
animal awesome in Missoula for example
the confluence of the rattlesnake Creek
and the Clark Fork Creek in Salish is a
which means the place of the small bull
trout
but not the big ones not the big ones
those are further out ok you know he
knows and so that's number two fisheries
that's number two and then the third
thing we do is actually really fun and
that's where the science comes yeah
because once you have a long term data
set of any particular river or stream
then you're able to monitor changes over
time changes as a result of changes in
land use and then also changes that may
result from a change in climate
mm-hmm for example we can look at our
data and see that over the past 30 years
snowmelt has actually started to occur
earlier and earlier in the season
yep now here in the West we're seeing
snowmelt happen about two weeks earlier
than it did just a short three to five
decades ago mm-hmm and that I feel like
probably would increase the fire season
too if you have water happening like if
you have sort of a bigger space between
when the snow is melting and when the
snow is coming back absolutely and
unfortunate for those of us who like to
get out and Recreation is well just be
outside at all yeah yeah it's been smoky
last year was a very smoky year and I
know that is you know we had bad fires
here but there about fires all over the
place you also work on there's some kind
of fire related thing that you're also
working on yeah that's correct Hank so
one of the fun things that I get to do
in my position is I actually had the
privilege of being invited to a national
team it's called the burned area
emergency response team cool that's kind
of a mouthful so we usually go with the
acronym bare that's great yeah that's
great
so the bear team is a group of
scientists and engineers yeah they come
in immediately after a wildfire that
poses significant risks to life property
or critical cultural and Natural
Resources and what we do is we use
science and technology to determine if
there is a risk to raise resources and
if there is then we engineer solutions
to try to prevent and reduce those risks
so after a fire I mean obviously the
landscape has changed
what are you looking out for that might
be a potential risk yeah so it depends
on who you are on the team right so this
is a team of scientists and engineers
and they're basically called in
depending upon what the resource of risk
is mm-hm so let's say that you have some
cultural sites that are at risk you
might bring in a cultural resource
specialist and they can go in and they
can map and determine which sites may be
at risk and and how to prevent them from
things like looting okay if there are
threatened and endangered species
involved you may bring in a botanist or
a biologist or if of course one of the
major effects on the landscape as a
result of fire is how that landscape is
going to respond to water into
precipitation events right so a
hydrologist is quite often brought in
which is great news if you are a
hydrologist because it means
opportunities to travel see amazing new
places and of course help people right
and so if you suddenly don't have a lot
of vegetation that you used to have
maybe holding that all that land in
place you look not for like landslide
risk exactly one yeah exactly so
watersheds do a number of things and
when you have fire come onto a landscape
it changes them dramatically mm-hmm as
you alluded to you don't have the
vegetation there so not only do you lose
all the shade when you're hiking but you
also lose the shade that insulates the
ground and protects the ground from
thermo from thermal radiation mm-hmm and
what that does is it removes a lot of
the landscapes ability to shed water
transpire water to hold snowpack and as
a result you tend to see very dramatic
flashes of water through the system for
briars and also as you alluded to the
high risk of flood and debris flows
right so the water moves through the
system much more quickly not being held
up by the by like you know transpiration
by like plants taking it up and I
imagine also is transporting all more
sediment absolutely sediment and the
other thing that fire can do if it burns
very hot is it can the hydrocarbon
residue can actually get into those
pores in the soil plug them up and so
what you have then is is soil that is
very water repellent mm-hmm we call it
hydrophobicity or hydrophobic soils
right and then it just slides right off
the top surface if you get a if you get
a precipitation event or two inches of
rain in one day for it
that could be very bad news so we've
come in and tried to engineer solutions
to try to minimize those risks
how long have been on this team so I've
been on this team for two and a half
years now last year for example I got to
go help out the folks in California on
the Mendocino complex fire which was a
yeah over 400,000 acre fire in
California that Californians know very
well and it was very devastating to a
lot of people so the opportunity to go
there and to try to help with those
efforts was really rewarding for me is
this something that you have any idea
that that existed when you were going
through school no actually I had heard a
little bit about these wildfire release
efforts and I've studied it a little bit
in school mm-hmm but I remember
backpacking and I was in the rattlesnake
wilderness just north of Missoula and I
remember sitting on a ridge and I was
drinking my coffee and I was looking out
and watching the huge mushroom cloud
that was coming up over the Liberty fire
at the time and I had no idea that 24
hours later I would be in an inn
briefing and I would be at the start of
what would be a 14 day deployment
working 16 hours a day to try to bring
some relief to those efforts Wow
and I mean so like obviously there's
day-to-day science but then there's also
sort of a Disaster Response part of your
job which is not something that I would
have imagined this you know as sort of
working scientist when I tell people I'm
a hydrologist there's really a lot that
goes into that so I tend to just tell
people that I'm a water engineer yes
that raises less questions
water engineer and also science first
responder I like that absolutely I yeah
and do you have you been seeing and sort
of increase in these kinds of impacts we
have so here in the West we've noticed
that wildfire the wildfire season has
increased by over thirty six days per
season and that was out of some research
that came out of the Rocky Mountain
Research Station just two or three years
ago mm-hmm so we've definitely noticed
those impacts if you're someone who's
lived here in the West for a good deal
of time mm-hmm you can definitely notice
that the climate around here is
certainly changing yeah what's that
about well we we do we we try
the impacts are many they affect
recreation they affect the economy here
in western Montana mm-hmm and another
effect that it has for our tribes is it
has an effect on our traditional way of
life mm-hmm so our tribal creation
stories are contained within a set of
sacred stories that are only brought out
in the wintertime when the snow is on
the ground
mm-hmm and then when the snow is melted
we put the stories away until the
followings on until the following winter
and so one of the effects of a changing
climate is that we have these
traditional sacred stories that have
been passed down for thousands of years
and as we see snowpack or snowmelt occur
earlier and earlier in reducing snow
packs it raises really tough questions
about what our tribal elders will do
with these stories if we have a winter
with say for example no snow on the
ground right so you're working with the
bear program is that right that's
correct and but you also work with the
tribe I do and how so so what's your
affiliation there so my affiliation
there so I am bitter Salish I have an
enrolled member of the Confederated
Salish and Kootenai tribes okay and that
is a collection of the Salish the
Kootenai and the pend oreille also known
as the upper Kalispell my tribes so my
tribal ancestry is bittered Salish and
we once occupied over 20 million acres
of what is now Idaho Montana Wyoming and
up into British Columbia Wow
so we now currently reside on the
Flathead Indian Reservation in western
Montana
that's about 1.3 million acres very
diverse territory everything from cedar
forest to sagebrush steppe country and
that is a reservation that we reserved
in 1855 in the treaty of Hellgate Wow so
that is where I work it's where our
tribal government is housed and it's
where we have a tribal natural resource
program mm-hmm so what I do with the
tribal natural resource program is I
help to manage the resources
particularly the water resources of the
reservation trying to conserve and
protect them both for current and for
future generations I think a lot of
people don't understand that
me as well how does the tribal
government interface with state federal
government like how how independent is
it and how sort of like how does it
interface with those other governments
yeah so our tribal government we are we
are governed by a tribal council which
consists of ten elected tribal council
women and tribal council men
mm-hm and they serve as our central
government we are a sovereign nation and
so we have a state-to-state relationship
both with the state of Montana and also
with the federal government so we manage
the resources and the politics the
Flathead Indian Reservation mm-hmm but
we also have very good relations with
our non-tribal neighbors so for example
I have contemporaries in the in the
state government and in the federal
government mm-hmm and we have very good
working relationships for both on and
off reservation issues Wow
I mean I think so few people understand
that there is this state to state
relationship with with tribal
governments and that this is actually
kind of a another sovereign nation
inside of our country we are and it can
be very complicated versus if you've
never been to an Indian Reservation I
would highly encourage you to come visit
us
yeah we have a guest that is going to
join us I haven't seen this guest in a
while but I don't I don't know how much
you you've probably seen a number of
beavers close up I have and I've read
this guest biography and I'm very
excited to meet - I haven't seen
huckleberry in a while I think that
huckleberry might have gotten bigger
okay Hey look are we its huckleberry the
beaver I don't know why I felt like
beavers weren't that big what Puckle
berry isn't even full-sized right no
he's almost two years old and they
mature between two and three so he's got
he's got some room to grow he's all
you've already he's about 40 pounds
right now and they average about 60 50
to 60 in the wild some of the bigger
guys get to be about 70 pounds that
surprises me Jesse I've seen pictures of
huckleberry before and that's what anger
than I expect she's super strong - he's
just like solid muscle and but he's not
no he's pretty content just sitting on
my lap eatin
streets what good what can we do to make
huckleberry feel more comfortable stay
still and maybe use a quiet voice okay
those are pretty much it and don't try
and touch his face oh I won't try and
touch him at all
so huckleberry he came to us from the
from Montana
he was found orphaned in a river and he
was sick malnourished and we fixed him
up got him eating and pretty healthy and
then we realized that he had something
called a taxi ax so he has a brain
trauma that everyone smile shows when he
will fall sideways run into something
his muscles just don't quite do what
they're supposed to do and it's just a
brain muscle relation that kind of
breaks down and it's random and he also
has impaired vision in his right eye so
he won't run into things sometimes
mm-hmm but if he knows his area he does
pretty good he can smell I know you want
some more how about this huge one yes
there you go he seems pretty happy right
now unless you try to take his food away
exactly exactly super content and one of
the main reasons he's really content is
he knows this routine and he knows me
really well so they eat the really fun
thing about beavers is when you're
working with them if they form a trust
bond with you well I raised him and so
he sees me as family and beavers are
really really have strong social bonds
family social bonds and they don't like
strangers but they are really
comfortable with people that they know
and so if you were if you were to try
and touch him or you try to get him to
sit on your lap he would he would nope
would not be a willing participant right
and and I feel like a beaver could do a
fair amount of damage to me these guys
are the second largest rodent in the
world they have huge incisors and they
can chew through three so totally buy
those back legs look very strong they're
for swimming so he owes is he with some
pair don't try to take his pair like
back legs they're almost as big as my
hand and so he uses those to swim with
through semi-aquatic and what's my hand
doing over here here food over here yeah
yeah
oh so they are excellent swimmers and
they're kind of clumsy on land they can
sprint short distances but mostly
they're they're gonna just waddle around
on land get in there whatever they need
to and then bringing it back to the
water to their Lodge and I love
educating about beavers I mean he's
really cool as an individual and it's
fun for me to work with them but
educating about what they do in the wild
is just mm-hmm I find it very exciting
to share because a lot of people I mean
they like beavers they have a cool tail
you don't people know that they slap
with their tail they chew through trees
but a lot of people they have an idea
but they don't really fully understand
how important beavers are to the
environment they completely change an
ecosystem and it's for the betterment of
basically every species except maybe
humans in the short term argue because
in the long term they are so important
for for what exactly what you do so
everything that you're talking about
beavers improve all of those things as a
hydrologist it's really a treat to get
to share the stage and really be the
opening act for huckleberry yeah because
beavers a really terrific ecosystem
engineers and a sign of a healthy River
a healthy River has what we call the
four seas and that's cold clean complex
and connected and when it comes to doing
and achieving those four things beavers
are really the most amazing ecosystem so
I loved some of the things you're saying
about the cold water definitely they're
going to build dams and then it creates
slower moving water but deeper and so it
stays cool and so it's gonna create
habitat for the trout species and then
it also filters out sediment so the
sediments are gonna stay there and it's
gonna create no dirt water so we need to
clean our water downstream and with for
the wildlife you have you pushed for
having beaver restoration in in your
waterways I have to say Jessi so I
recently visited a restoration site it
was a river just outside of town that
had been affected by a legacy of mining
and they've done a lot of really great
restoration work up there and when we
went to have a field site
and to look at this restoration work
that they've done imagine our surprise
when we hiked around the corner and what
did we see but a beaver dam and a beaver
lodge that's a sign of a healthy river
that's great yeah yeah
so these guys are super important for
you know clean water cool water and then
they create the complex I guess are you
saying complex like biodiversity because
they create biodiversity when they
create new ecosystems for new species to
live there when I say complex Jesse I
mean messy so when you look at a river
and you see all of that down debris in
there that lark what we call large woody
debris
yeah these trees in the river we might
think that looks messy as humans yeah
but any fly Fisher person can tell you
that's a sign of a healthy river right
yeah and all of that like the ways that
rivers function like we see them as
static in our brains that like this is
where the river is and especially in the
city like the river has to stay where it
is or it becomes inside of your house
but in a natural ecosystem rivers move
around and they like wander from side to
side of the valley over tens of
thousands of years and create this
fertile land that we all use and beavers
are a part of that because like as they
are creating structure in a river the
river has to find new ways to flow so it
felt like and then you get these big
oxbow lakes and you get all this all
this weird complex stuff yeah and then
the last thing that beavers really help
with is wildfires so when humans are
thinking of like oh man we're having
devastating fires and the first thing
that a lot of people think is well less
fuel less fire and that's you know
beavers are a very cheap resource they
do all the way they work for free and
they can go and create these big wet
riparian areas and it increases the
humidity and it creates basically these
big like fire blocks because down the in
the in the valley the fires cannot cross
this big boggy area because they've
created multiple ponds with their dams
and their lodges and so it's it's such a
little used
source and it's it's so effective yeah
like we don't like swamps you don't like
swamps until there's a fire exactly we
also don't like fires huh so these guys
are really important and and I know
there's a lot of you want all of it
and yes it fit as many as you can get in
your mouth I'll just leave my hand there
like I'd be a hamster if I could so
there's there's controversy with
landowners and these guys you know
chewin down favorite trees or you know
making ponds where people don't want
ponds messy exactly messy
filling up culverts and then flooding
roads and stuff like that so there is a
lot of scientists working on those
problems trying to figure out how we can
smooth those relations they can be
complicated neighbors but just like the
guy who likes to mow his lawn at
midnight you know there are ways that we
can get along and beavers we're not
there were not a lot left like there was
a lot of area that was completely like
there were no more beavers a erratic at
the point was to trap them in you know
into extinction and so especially so
eastern Montana is a big place where we
see a lot of issues with really dry hard
baked land and that's because they
eradicated their beavers and so a great
way to kind of restore that area is to
introduce beavers back into those
ecosystems and a really great way to do
it is if you haven't established beaver
family that you know produces four kits
a year and you don't want them maybe in
your city creating new new structures
there you can trap the babies and move
them to these other places but along
with that you also have to establish
that you can't trap them all once
they're right there so it's it's
complicated but there there are ways
that we can definitely improve what we
got going on and if fevers are the only
other mammal that really reconstructs
the environment to fit their needs yeah
so they're just there they're there
- I mean they're doing the things they
do to protect their babies so they
to build a dam to slow the water to
build a lodge so their babies stay safe
in the lodge so they're doing just what
humans do they go in there and they
change the environment to protect their
family and you know doing good
what does beaver family life Jesse are
they are the kits helpful do they help
in collecting food or cleaning or they
like most leaders where they just sleep
down there are similar to humans I know
they they don't they don't do anything
when they're babies they just have fun
and you know take up resources but
they're adorable so they hang out in the
lodge for the first eight weeks they can
swim on day one and the lodge
construction is basically there's a
secret entrance under the water and then
they build it above the water line so
there's like this dry for area with a
little dry shelf and then a little
slewing pool on the inside and so the
babies are there they swim around they
climb back up and then mom comes and
nurses them and then as they get a
little bit older they start eating the
brows that the mom and dad will and
older brothers and sisters will bring in
for him at 8 weeks old they can leave
the lodge and he's shoving his mouthful
again okay eight weeks old they can
leave the lodge so any gases you might
know I might have told you before any
guesses on to why baby beavers cannot
leave the lodge until 8 weeks old they
physically can't
hmm I do remember you telling me this
what I forgotten okay it's not a curfew
No so they are filled with air bubbles
so essentially they're filled with gas
and so they float which a surprise they
cannot dive and so an eight-week-old
they fart all their air bubbles out I
would have no I would have remembered
that
burn out and then they can dive and they
can get out their secret entrance so
that eight weeks old they develop a
magical new ability explosive abilities
so they they leave the lodge and they
start figuring out the world and their
older brothers and sisters are still
with them you listening to me talking
you see your ears moving and mom and dad
and brothers and sisters all take care
of the babies and teach them what foods
to eat what predators are out there and
if something scary happens they'll slap
their tail babies in media
dive either to the bottom and they can
hold their breath for 15 minutes so
they'll dive down to the bottom of the
lake or river or pond and or they'll go
into their secret entrance hide and
that's how they kind of just figure the
world out and then at didn't eat too
much oh I just didn't held a little bit
of kibble out happens good
huckleberry has eaten all of the food he
has he has so um I guess I have to speed
talk the rest of this out so large yeah
he's a happy boy yeah I'm gonna stay
here let's cuddle all right huckleberry
thank you for joining us it's been
really fun getting to know him and and
just getting to know him as it has an
individual and then and then also
teaching about him and good you know
buddy there you go and that two years
old it's gonna be fun this is a new
transition for him so he's now I guess
you'd say almost officially an adult he
would be out looking for a mate and
building a home so his care is gonna
change a little bit at animal wonders
we're going to probably be seeing a lot
more large construction attempts so
we'll give him some big branches not
just to eat but to build with so it's
gonna be an adventure it keeps changing
it's great and you just got to make sure
that he just can't like can't eat his
enclosure uh yeah that was that was in
the construction process he just
recently got moved to his big new home
with a pool in it and everything is
either made out of stone or metal yeah
the only way to do it turns out they can
eat wood yeah well huckleberry thank you
so much for joining us and being such a
remarkable weird thing I was just
looking at his face right then and it
was so cute little eyes Casey also thank
you so much for coming and sharing about
your work thank you stuff
and love to see all the different ways
that people use science for the
betterment of people's lives and also
just to learn cool stuff thanks
everybody for watching if you want to
see more what we do on scishow that's
youtube.com slash scishow if you want to
see more of what Jesse's up to you can
go to youtube.com slash animal wonders
Montana you can see all of her animals
and all the hard work she does to keep
them happy and healthy and we'll put a
link in the description if you want to
see more of what Casey's up to
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