>>> MARK HAMBLEY, IS A FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR WHO SERVED IN 14
DIFFERENT DIPLOMATIC POSITIONS, MANY IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
HE'S ALSO A FREQUENT GUEST OF THE WORLD AFFAIRS COUNCIL OF
WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS WHERE HE SPEAKS ON A VARIETY OF TOPICS,
INCLUDING THE ARABIAN PENINSULA.
DURING A RECENT TRIP TO THE AREA HAMBLEY JOINED ME IN THE STUDIO
TO DISCUSS WHY THIS RELATIVELY SMALL AREA OF THE WORLD HAS SUCH
A GEOPOLITICAL IMPACT.
ALSO JOINING ME WAS WILLIAM MORRIS, SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE
NEXT CENTURY FOUNDATION, AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT
WORKS TOWARD PEACE AMONG NATIONS.
. >> WELL, IT'S IMPORTANT BY ITS
LOCATION FIRST OF ALL.
IT GUARDS THE ACCESS TO THE GULF AND ALSO THE RED SEA ON THE
OTHER END, AND IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF OIL.
IT'S ONE OF THE LEADING AREAS THAT PRODUCES OIL IN THE WORLD.
SAUDI ARABIA HAS BEEN THE SWING PRODUCER ON OIL.
IT'S IMPORTANT ALSO BECAUSE OF TERRORISM.
AL QAEDA'S MAJOR BASE IS IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF YEMEN.
>> WE WILL TALK ABOUT YEMEN IN A BIT.
I WANTED TO FLAG FOR FOLKS TO REMIND THEM WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
THE ARABIAN PENINSULA, FOR YOU, MR.
MORRIS, IS THERE ONE CON SEE ASIDE FROM YEMEN THAT WE SHOULD
FLAG IN OUR CONSIDERATIONS.
>> JUST NOW, THIS WEEK, I AM PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT
SYRIA, BUT NOT DAMASCUS.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT NORTHERN SYRIA WHERE THE TURKS HAVE
EFFECTIVELY INVADED SYRIA.
THE KURDS THAT ARE PUTTING DOWN WITH THEIR LOCAL REGIONAL
ASPIRATIONS FOR INDEPENDENCE, THE KURDS WHO FOUGHT FOR US
AGAINST I GUESS ISIS, ISIL IF YOU PREFER TO CALL IT THAT, BUT
THEY FOUGHT AND DIED FOR US AND THESE PEOPLE, THE PYD, THE
KURDS, A FREEING AREA OF NORTHERN SYRIA, ARE BEING
CRUELLY TREATED AND THE NUMBERS OF REFUGEES FROM THERE, 70
THOUSAND THOUSAND THE LATEST WAVE OF REFUGEES, AS THE TURKS
BOMB AND MOVE IN, AND IT'S SO SAD THAT WE ARE NOT TALKING
ABOUT THIS INTERNATIONALLY OR NATIONALLY.
IT'S NOT IN OUR PAPERS, THE VERY PEOPLE WHO FOUGHT ON THE GROUND
FOR US.
>> AND YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE MEDIA AND WHAT'S NOT.
YEMEN UNTIL ABOUT A YEAR AGO WAS NOT VERY OFTEN IN OUR HEADLINES
UNTIL WE STARTED HEARING REPORTS THAT OUR COUNTRY WAS INVOLVED IN
ON THE GROUND COMBAT IN THIS COUNTRY SECRETLY.
SINCE THEN AS WE HAVE LEARNED MORE ABOUT THIS WAR, IT STILL IS
NOT ALL THAT OFTEN BROUGHT TO THE FOREFRONT.
ANY SENSE OF WHY?
>> OTHER ISSUES HAVE TAKEN HEADLINES, THERE ARE VERY FEW
YEMENESE LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES.
WE EVACUATED OUR TROOPS AND OUR EMBASSY IN 2014.
YEMEN IS AN ISSUE BECAUSE SAUDI ARABIA IS ENGAGED IN A WAR, THAT
IRAN IS HELPING THE CONTROL, PART OF YEMEN, THAT THEY ARE
USING THAT TO SUBVERT THE KING OF SAUDI ARABIA.
THAT'S A BIT OF A STRETCH.
THEY ARE ONLY GETTING SUPPORT FROM IRAN AND NO OTHER PLACES TO
TURN TO.
WE'VE GOT TO FIND A WAY TO STOP THE WAR.
>> A STICKY SITUATION DIPLOMATICALLY.
AS YOU SAY WE ARE WORKING WITH THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT, BUT THE
OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WAS VERY CONCERNED WHAT WAS GOING ON
SAUDI ARABIA WAS -- HOW DO WE NAVIGATE THIS VERY STICKY
SITUATION?
>> THE FIRST IS WE'VE GOT TO CONVINCE THE SAUDIS THAT THE
YEMENESE ARE NOT A BIG THREAT.
THE TWO HUGE LARGEST COUNTRIES, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO CREATE A
GENERATION.
WE CAN ARRANGE TO HAVE A PEACE CONFERENCE WOULD BE EFFECTIVE.
IF WE GET THE U.N. TO BACK DOWN FROM ITS ONE-SIDED RESOLUTIONS,
IF WE FIND WAYS TO OUTMANEUVER IRANIANS WHO ARE TAKING
ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION.
>> THE NEXT CENTURY FOUNDATION, YOU HAVE BEEN HEADING THIS
ORGANIZATION FOR OVER 20 YEARS NOW.
CURIOUS TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS PEACE IN GENERAL, THINKING ABOUT
PEACE BROADLY.
BEING THERE FOR 20 YEARS, HAS THIS EVOLVED THEN HOW YOU LOOK
AT WORKING TOWARDS PEACE IN THIS VERY CHARGED REGION?
>> YES, IT CHANGES.
YOUR IDEOLOGY HAS TO CHANGE.
I MEAN LOOKING AT WAYS TO GET PEOPLE TO TALK TO ONE ANOTHER.
NOW THE ARAB SPRING, WE HAD TO RETHINK WHAT WE BELIEVED IN AND
WHAT WE STOOD FOR AND WE ADOPTED ROOSEVELT'S FOUR FREEDOMS,
FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND RELIGION AND FREEDOM FROM FEAR.
THE BASIC JOB IS TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHO OTHERS ARE NOT
TALKING TO, AND IT'S A GREAT PROBLEM IN THE WORLD IF YOU ARE
NOT TALKING TO PEOPLE.
WE DON'T TALK TO IRAN NOW IN THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION.
AND WE'RE NOT LIKELY TO DO THAT.
IT'S A PROBLEM FOR US IN THE WORLD BECAUSE IT MEANS THEN
THERE ARE GREATER MISUNDERSTANDINGS AND THESE
CONVERSATIONS NEED TO BE HELD, AND WE NEED TO -- IF WE DON'T
TALK, THE WHOLE -- IT'S WAR, YOU KNOW.
THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES.
THAT'S THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS GONE.
AND SO THE ROLE OF ANYBODY IN A SECOND TRACK ORGANIZATIONS IS TO
ENABLE THAT DIALOGUE TO TAKE PLACE.
>> BUT YOU KNOW FULL WELL THERE ARE TIMES THAT OUR GOVERNMENT
CHOOSES AS YOU SAID NOT TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS.
SO WHEN WE CHOOSE TO NOT ENTER INTO DIALOGUE WITH IRAN OR OTHER
COUNTRIES, WHAT'S OUR REASONING THERE?
WHY IS IT SEEN BY OUR GOVERNMENT AS A STANCE WE SHOULD BE TAKING?
>> THAT'S ALWAYS THE PUBLIC POSITION, BUT VERY OFTEN PRIVATE
POSITION YOU HAVE QUIET NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON THROUGH
THIRD PARTIES, SECOND TRACK AS WILLIAM INDICATES, WITH
INTERESTED PARTIES FROM GOVERNMENTS TRYING TO FIND WAYS
OF COMMON GROUND OR TO PREVENT AN UNFORESEEN CIRCUMSTANCE THAT
WOULD RESULT IN WAR.
WE DON'T TALK DIRECTLY TO THE IRANIANS, WE DO TALK TO THEM ON
THE SIDE.
KOREANS, WE ARE HAVING CONVERSATIONS IN FINLAND BETWEEN
PEOPLE AND WILL HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH -- WHEN WE DO
MEET DIRECTLY IN MAY BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND THE PRESIDENT OF
KOREA, TOO.
>> FOR THE AVERAGE CITIZEN, WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING AT THESE
ISSUES, HOW MUCH IS THERE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR EACH OF US TO
EDUCATE OURSELVES MORE BROADLY IN THESE AREAS?
>> OH, IT'S KEY.
IT REALLY IS.
OUR LIVES DEPEND ON THE INTERDEPENDENCY OF THE WORLD WE
LIVE IN TODAY.
WE CANNOT ISOLATE OURSELVES.
IF WE DON'T WELCOME PEOPLE TO OUR COUNTRY, IMMIGRANTS AND
OTHERS, I MEAN IT MAKES SENSE THAT WE HAVE AN OPEN DIALOGUE
WITH PEOPLE IN ORDER TO SECURE OUR FUTURE.
>> WE GIVE TREASURE, DON'T WE.
IT IS OUR BOYS THAT DIE IN IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN, AND SO WE NEED
TO BE AWARE BECAUSE THESE ARE OUR CHILDREN, AND REALLY IT'S
OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BUILD A SAFER WORLD, AND IF WE DON'T
UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON WE CAN'T CALL OUR POLITICIANS TO
ACCOUNT AND PEOPLE WILL BEHAVE BADLY.
IT'S DOWN TO THE POPULATION.
IF WE ARE A DEMOCRACY, TO ACTUALLY CALL OUR POLITICIANS TO
ACCOUNT AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING ON OUR
BEHALF.
>> WE HAD A DRAFT.
WE HAD PEOPLE, SONS AND DAUGHTERS BEING DRAFTED, THAT
THEY WERE NOT GOING TO THE PLACE OF CONFLICT.
VIETNAM BEING ONE ISSUE WHERE PEOPLE REVOLTED.
THEY SAW IT AS IT BEING PERHAPS NOT THE BEST NATIONAL INTEREST.
WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW WHEN YOU HAVE AN ARMY WHICH IS A
PROFESSIONAL ARMY, PEOPLE AREN'T INTERESTED BECAUSE THERE IS NO
VESTED INTEREST IF THAT AND WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT DYNAMIC.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU THE FACT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS A
NUMBER OF VACANCIES AT THE AMBASSADOR LEVEL, AND THE
FOREIGN SERVICE ADMINISTRATION AS OF MARCH 8TH SOME OF THOSE
INCLUDE QATAR, SAUDI ARABIA AND EGYPT.
>> THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN AMBASSADOR IN PLACE IN ORDER TO COMMUNICATE
YOUR VIEWS TO A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT.
OTHERWISE YOU START HAVING MISCOMMUNICATION, YOU START
DOING INFORMAL CHANNELS VIA THE OTHER -- YOU DON'T GET A RECORD,
IT'S NOT TRANSPARENT.
IT IT'S NOT A WAY TO CONDUCT
BUSINESS.
>> MANY OF THESE COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST, DID YOU FIND THAT
SOME OF THE POSITIONS WERE UNFILLED OR IS THIS NEW THAT WE
ARE SEEING?
>> THIS IS AN UNUSUALLY HIGH RATE OF VAI CAN SEES.
THERE WAS CAREER VERSUS NON-CAREER.
>> MEANING COMING FROM THE
PRIVATE SECTOR?
>> PRIVATE SECTOR, POLITICAL APPOINTEES RATHER THAN SOMEBODY
THROUGH CAREER SERVICE.
NOW IT'S JUST MAKE YOU ARE FILLING POSITION, ANYBODY.
NOT JUST IN THE OVERSEAS POST, IN WASHINGTON AS WELL.
IN THE HIERARCHY OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT THERE ARE MANY, MANY
VACANCIES THROUGHOUT -- IN THE EAST ASIA BUREAU AND OTHER
BUREAUS AS WELL.
THAT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO CONDUCT POLICY.
>> COULD YOU FORESEE ANY REASON WHY PRESIDENT TRUMP OR HIS
ADVISORS WOULD THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA NOT TO FILL THESE
POSITIONS?
>> I DON'T THINK THE PRESIDENT IS FOCUSED ON THAT.
I THINK HE WANTS TO FILL POSITIONS BUT THERE IS A
PROCESS, BUT THAT HAS TO START WITH GETTING NOMINEES IN, MAKING
SURE THAT YOU HAVE A CAREER VERSUS A POLITICAL SYSTEM.
IT'S CLOGGED IN THE SYSTEM SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE.
I IMAGINE NAMES HAVE BEEN PUT FORWARD AND THEY ARE ADVANCING
TO BE CLEARED AND OFF TO THE SENATE FOR THE NOMINATING
PROCESS.
>> GENTLEMEN, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.