Judy: This week the nation has
been searching for answers after
the racially motivated massacre
in Buffalo.
And some general election
matchups that could have
far-reaching political
consequences are taking shape
while other primary races are
still too close to call.
For analysis on all of this, we
turn to brooks, the New York
Times colonists David brooks and
Jonathan.
Hello to both of you on this
Friday.
Good to see you.
We start with another very tough
story, David and we began this
week with the awful mass
shooting of black Americans in
Buffalo.
What does that say to you about
where we are as a country when
it comes to race and guns?
>> Jonathan can speak to this
more than I but one of the
truths of this country is that
-- that comes from slavery,
discrimination and lynching and
it comes from white supremacists
and racist violence.
That is the reality.
And those that stoke it do it in
a lot of different ways.
One of those is the theory that
says the race of one group of
people will swamp another.
Using that language, the great
replacement language, that is
tied to a culture of racial
hostility and that is just a
fact.
I think it is legitimate to have
a wide variety of views on
immigration.
When you use racial categories
and talking about swapping and
white America being under
threat, you are feeding into a
culture.
Ideas have consequences and they
will lead to violence.
Judy: There is almost an
inevitability about this now.
Are we as a country accepting
this as part of who we are?
>> Yes.
I appreciate David's words at
the outset of his answer.
I remember the first time I got
an email from someone who had
read something I had written in
the Washington post years ago
who was complaining to me about
white genocide.
That was the term then.
White genocide.
Whites were being killed off and
replaced.
Now, the great replacement
theory is the happy smiley face
of the white genocide thinking
out there.
Back then, it was the fringe.
Back then, it was a person out
there in the far right swamps.
And then president trump comes
in and takes the lid off our
national demons and now, what we
have our sitting members of
congress, people in the
leadership of the Republican in
the house who are trading in
this language.
They may not use the exact
words, great replacement theory,
but everything else they talk
about is parroting those talking
points.
When the great replacement
theory is given a home, aid, and
comfort by leaders in this
country, what are we to expect?
That is the danger we are in
We have seen far too many
communities of Americans being
targeted I people who adhere to
this great replacement theory.
We have seen blacks targeted.
Jews targeted and muslims
targeted.
At some point, this nation as a
whole will have to start to take
this seriously and leaders,
Republican leaders, need to
speak up if a great replacement
theory does not speak for them.
Judy: David, do you see any
signs anywhere that people are
taking this seriously enough or
in a way that we may be able to
come together and have a serious
conversation about this and
address who we are right now?
>> I think we are having a
conversation.
It has been four or five years
since 2014.
Years of difficult conversations
which many people have been in
the middle of so I think it has
been an era of progress not
necessarily on racial harmony
but deeper understanding on the
part of a lot of people of what
the experience of black America
really is.
At the same time that some have
become better educated, some
have become radicalized and this
is a combination of the racist
genotypes flowing through our
history.
It is a combination of mental
health problems.
It is a combination of extreme
social isolation driving people
to hang onto these conspiracy
theories and want to take
action.
At the same time that I think we
are having progress in America
on racial communication, we are
also seeing reaction against
significant minority.
Judy: Do you see any glimmer of
progress on this?
>> As opposed to glimmer of
progress is that when I say what
I just said in response to your
first question that I am not
going to get a bunch of blowback
from people saying -- what are
you talking about?
You are hypersensitive.
That won't happen again.
Because of Ferguson.
Because of George Floyd and the
two-year anniversary is coming
up next week.
Because of the litany of racial
things that we have been through
over these years that the
conversations we have been
having over the years are much
more sophisticated, much more
nuanced does not mean we are
making the leaps of progress I
hoped we would but at least when
we have these conversations
there is no one saying, you're
being crazy.
Judy: We know this is one of the
issues that is going to be
playing out in this year's
midterm elections and we have
some results to look at again
from this week.
Let me ask you about the
democratic primaries.
There were several primaries in
Pennsylvania and North Carolina
and elsewhere.
For the Democrats come in a few
important races, Progressive
candidates came out ahead of the
moderates or so-called
mainstream Democrats.
What does that tell us about
what shape Democrats may be in
the fall?
>> There was some supposition
when Joe Biden got elected that
we would -- that we had this
moderate Democrat and the white
house and the polarization of
American politics may slow down
or stop but we can toss aside
that hope.
The Progressives did do quite
well this week.
Whether that will hurt Democrats
in the fall if they present
people that are less electable,
I'm not sure.
I look at John Fetterman in
Pennsylvania.
I find him a very attractive
figure and probably a
politically compelling figure.
He is 6'8", where's Carhart --
wears Carhart.
If you can show you have nothing
to do with east coast cultural
elites, you are in good shape
and that guy has made a cultural
statement about who he is and he
will be attacked for
left-leaning policies but he
strikes me as a pretty
compelling figure and may be new
sort of or different kind of
aggressively working class
Progressive that we have not
seen a lot of.
Judy: But that is not what the
mainstream Democrats and many of
these races thought would
happen.
>> Right.
But as I look at these
races, when we talk about
Democrats we are asking if they
are Progressive or moderate.
We are talking about inches.
Medicare for all.
Canceling student that.
Expanding health care.
You name the policy, there is
some moderate versus Progressive
and going on but when it comes
to Republicans, we are not
talking about policies.
Everything revolves around
Donald Trump and the big lie and
where those prospective
candidates fall in that little
play.
When we get Democrats and
Republicans in the general
election, it is going to be the
Democrat talking about policies
and the Republican trying to
show just how much they are
close to trump?
I still am trying to understand
what the general election is
going to look like.
Judy: We saw in the Republican
primaries in these states,
whether former president trump's
chosen person came out on top or
not, to a candidate, most of
these Republicans do not believe
Joe Biden won.
>> Didn't Dr. Oz have a proposal
to change the federal budget
process?
One thing I have learned about
the Republican party is there
was some thought that trumpism
could be contained by either
building a wall of non-trump
candidates in the party or have
establishment figures embracing
trumpism at the same time that
they water it down which is
normally what happens in
insurrections.
That is another theory we can
toss out.
Trumpism is pervasive in the
party and it is bigger then
trump.
His own personal endorsements do
make a difference clearly but
the nationalist posture, the
populist posture, talking about
the stolen election ash this is
all pervading the party.
What will the fall election be
like?
I think it will be about none of
these things.
Inflation, crime, schools and
the culture wars.
I think it will not be about
stopping the steel.
If the Republicans were going to
be punished for that they would
have already been punished
looking at polls, they are not
being punished.
It is certainly a compass party.
Judy: One of the culture war
issues is the supreme court
leaked opinion.
We have a new poll showing
something like two thirds of
Americans do not want roe V.
Wade to be overturned.
Does that give us some kind of
sense of what happens?
We don't know what the court
will do but if it comes forward
with something that looks like
the leaked draft, what does that
say about where we are headed in
the elections?
>> It says we are headed towards
a bumpy road.
It says the supreme court does
not care about public opinion.
The support for roe V. Wade --
there has always been a majority
of Americans support for roe V.
Wade.
The fact that a draft opinion
was leaked and we got to read it
knowing where the American
people are on this issue and
still a majority of the court in
this draft opinion wants to
overturn roe V. Wade, I think
that says more about the court
and it does about the American
people.
I understand it is a branch of
government and they should be
separate and apart from the
people but the people will rise
up.
The American people will be very
concerned if the official ruling
from the supreme court in that
case looks anything like the
draft opinion.
Judy: What do you think it
portends if the court comes up
with what it looks like they are
going to end the public opinion
is in the other direction?
>> I would be proud that the
supreme court ignored public
opinion.
That is its job.
The second part of your poll
showed how while people want to
keep roe V. Wade, they are
somewhere in the middle about
what restrictions they want to
see on abortion.
As Lisa said the other night,
they are somewhere between 15
and 22 weeks is where is some --
many people would like to see
some restrictions come in.
The parties are so incredibly
polarized.
Judy: It is one we are watching
very closely in these weeks to
come.
It promises to hold all of our
attention for the rest of this
year.
David brooks and Jonathan, thank
you both.
>> Thank you, Judy.