So we got TIFF and Leon Chin on here.
It's actually Tiffany, but I
feel like I should call you tiff.
Most people do.
OK, so great.
I want to start off with this
because we've heard so much about
business during the pandemic
and I can only imagine what your
business has done in the pandemic,
but I want you to tell
us how has it been. Well,
it's been a wild ride like anyone.
We when the pandemic first started like
anybody we weren't sure and everyone kind
of froze for a minute there and then.
All of a sudden we just started
getting more and more orders and it
it just built up and it it was like
having our busiest day of the year
every single day for those shut down
for everybody that was missing
birthdays anniversary's couldn't go
see their grandparents Mother's Day.
You have to remember about how
many occasions we all missed.
We were just sending cookies and
even for occasions or for just
connection and so we saw a ton of that.
We scrambled to hire.
We hired hundreds of people to
keep up with with that initial
boost of demand. So
this has been explosive for you all as in it.
It was, it was.
We know that we were very fortunate.
There's a lot of awesome businesses
that we know of our friends own
and run that just by the sheer
lock of what they did was it was
difficult for them in other areas,
so we were definitely fortunate.
We are fortunate to get to see
what we call the good in people.
There's just so much divisiveness out there.
But at the end of the day,
every single day week we got to see
orders that showed love and appreciation,
comfort and that connection to it was.
Mentioning
and we needed all of those
things during the pandemic,
which we're still in and and I guess
a lot of people may not have even just
been sending them to other people,
but maybe treating themselves
because it's like so many other
things had had fallen away and
and life got so hard for us all.
Absolutely we saw a big boost
in self consumption and people
especially nights and weekends
just needing that comfort snack.
I mean, I know we needed those kind
of things as well on a personal level.
So yeah, you saw a ton of that, been
there and done that.
And and what a business model to have
at that time to already have, you know.
Delivery be the key to your success and
and I mean that just blew up and you
already had a whole system for that.
I'm curious during all of this,
though obviously you had to
make adjustments along the way.
Did you learn something new after being
in business for so many years here?
Did you learn something new that you thought?
Oh yeah, this is a huge lesson
going forward. Yeah,
I don't feel like we learn a ton
learn. We learn a lot about communication,
that's what I was gonna say to what?
Because there was so much uncertainty.
And honestly there's still is.
But especially in the
beginning with our team,
we needed to communicate with them every day.
Here's what we're seeing.
Here is what we're going to do.
And then it would even be the next day.
OK, now we're going to do this,
but they needed to hear
that every single day.
And sometimes people were even leaning
on our team to understand safety.
Protocols 'cause we were putting
in safety protocols and it was
giving them comfort to know.
OK, we've got a plan and they
maybe weren't hearing that
from everywhere and they they
wanted to hear it from us too.
And
it was one of those things where it was like.
Look, we may be wrong about this or that,
or you know, here's our plan
and it may or may not work,
but this is our plan and This is
why we want this to be our plan.
And I I think that was comforting
because there's so much unknown during
the pandemic in all facets of life.
And so it was comforting to at
least have someone communicating
with you every single day.
Alright, so I already think of you
all as sort of a case study because
you know you've built this really
successful business and you're
married and you work together,
and we know that that can be
challenging just in normal times.
Did that get harder during the pandemic?
Because so many people were like Oh my God,
you know I'm spending so much time with
this spouse that I'm I'm not accustomed
to doing this well.
We were lucky 'cause we are accustomed to it.
So in terms of a personal US spending time
together that never changed so it wasn't
anything that we had to get used to.
We had a common goal as we
always have and so for us.
No, I don't think that that
was that was any harder.
I think the pressures of life you know
were there like they are for everybody,
but because we're on the
same team and moving.
Towards the same things that part
really wasn't a huge change for us,
but early on you know we're not going to lie.
There's there's a lot of learnings
and working with your spouse and
starting a business or running a
business with your spouse that we had
to work through years and years ago.
Y'all were ahead of the curve on this one.
So there's been this big spirit
of entrepreneurship here in
these past couple of years.
A lot of people opting to
do something different,
maybe follow some passion in their life.
It's great to go.
Do you know what you care about and what
you feel you know passionate about?
Do you have advice for people,
even if it's just one nugget
of advice right now for people
who are starting a business or
thinking of starting a business?
Yeah, I think usually our
biggest negative advice is 1.
Be passionate about what you're doing.
If you want to do it and you
want to be successful at it,
do what you can to make that the
primary focus in your life and
have the other things be kind of
second to that so that you can
really put focus on it and to
never underestimate hard work.
It's going to be hard work,
and it's something that you can control.
You can work as hard as as you're able,
and that will really pay off.
I want to ask you this because you've
got a new book that's coming out.
It's called not.
It's not just cookies,
stories and recipes from the tiffs,
treats, kitchen and and you go
into it in this book about you know,
starting up the business, the highs,
the lows tell people about how this started.
For people who don't know,
it's an extraordinary story.
Yeah, well this it's extraordinary
because it started because this this one.
My lovely wife now but she
stood me up on a date. Well I
did but I also apologized with
a batch of cookies and there was
something that I did as a hobby.
So I made this batch of cookies,
drove it over to his house and they
just so happened to still be warm.
When I got there and he kind of had this.
He had the very first warm cookie moment.
That's what we call it when people
experience this connection between
two people over a warm cookie.
And he had our very first one,
so it really was love at first bite.
Kind of.
I guess you could say that for me
and and then you started this business.
I mean, you know, obviously you
knew you were onto something.
You had a good product there.
But you start this business.
You're in a you know,
college apartment.
You've got almost no money in
your pocket and you, you know,
had the audacity to go.
I'm going to start a business here.
Yeah, well it wasn't wise.
Yeah, there's something to be
said about we were 19 years old,
19 year old sophomores in college.
There's just something to
be said about being naive.
We call it young and dumb and
naive and we just didn't know what
we didn't know and that actually
served a really great purpose
for us because we just kind of
barreled through everything.
Looking back on it now,
we are kind of like wow.
I can't believe we actually tried
that or did that or I can't believe
we thought we could pull it off.
And I imagine too,
though that that there's a lesson
in that too that you know a lot
of us tend to get comfortable,
but you have to be willing to
put yourself out there and maybe
take a risk and something that
really makes you uncomfortable.
The reward is in the risk you have
to have risk. If you want any reward,
we're a good pair. 'cause I'm a little
more hesitant when it comes to risk,
but he pushes and then we battle each other.
Need that, it's good to have
that so so you talk about highs
and lows in the book as well.
What would you say?
Looking back over the years stands
out as as kind of a low for you
as you've been going through the
process of building this business.
Not many and a lot of them are in the book.
When you think Flood probably.
I'm thinking when we lost our
lease of our first location.
The reason that that sticks out to
me is a low is of any of the times
you know there are highs and lows
throughout our entire history,
but this was the most likely time
we were going to go out of business.
And it wasn't for anything we did.
It was that we had lost our lease.
We didn't have enough money
to lease another space.
No landlord in their right mind would
have extended us terms on on a lease.
And we had just had nowhere to go.
We ended up pushing forward and having
a great outcome and finding that
unbelievable landlord who would take
a chance on us and finding a converted
house and turning that into a kitchen
as opposed to a normal restaurant space.
So it worked out for us,
but when we lost that lease and we had,
I think we had like 45.
Ways to get out.
That would be one of my
that's a. That's a real gut punch
when you're trying to run a business.
What stands out to you is is as one
of the you know the highest highs.
As you've gone through this. How
there's so many highs,
a lot of the highs are the warm moments
we get to see from our customers.
We have our first four delivery
drivers we've ever hired.
They're all with the company
today in management positions,
three had left and gone,
gotten jobs and and graduated college,
and then came back.
One just stayed the whole time,
and so for us, it's a.
It's the things like that to be
able to build something that an
industry that didn't exist when we
started with people we care about.
And for us,
that's kind of like a real high
to to to always think on that.
I I want to. Mask so you all are
from the DFW area originally,
and of course you started
everything though down in Austin,
but you still have these these
roots here that you can't shake.
I know that Dirk Nowitzki has been a big
investor in the company and am I right?
Former Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings
was part of a group, too.
That was a big investor.
So you definitely have
that that DFW tie going on.
I'm I'm certain that we have a
huge contingent of investors,
including dark and Mayor Mike.
Who are investors?
Yes, we're we're from the
DFW area Richardson Burtner.
When I made those apology cookies,
we were actually in Dallas at the time.
So while technically we started out
of his Austin College apartment,
the idea was hatched in Richardson.
Do we have like 24 locations?
It's our it's our biggest market and
so we we have more stores in the DFW
area than we do in any other city.
I didn't know that the first batch
of Tiff's treats cookies though
were made in an oven right here.
You know right? Mom's house.
Because we were on winter break. Something
is amazing that is really cool and so
you know when we talk about investors.
I think that there are people
out there who have, you know,
sunk their teeth into it and had that
warm moment that you're talking about.
And they thought I would invest in this.
Is that ever?
Do you think maybe going to happen stock
down the road at some point perhaps?
You know, we'll
see. I mean, all options are open for sure.
You're talking about public company stock.
Oh yeah. That that would be
something that we would definitely
evaluate when the time comes.
How you guys this this business
is now worth $500 million and
you're in how many states now?
Let's see
4555 States and and missions
with ambitions to take on
all 50 right. At some point,
absolutely, there's no reason we can't
have warm cookie delivery in every state,
right? We'll do it responsibly, though.
We, we never, we've never defined
our success by number of locations.
It really is about the
customer experience for us.
And so we'll open locations as long
as we can keep the brand intact
in the customer service there.
I think it's amazing that you mentioned
that because I thought about that.
Before and I always think about
that in terms of a really successful
company and I have noticed that
your consistency is always there.
If I'm eating it in one city
versus eating it in another city,
or ordering from a different place somehow,
you're able to keep that consistency
in there, and that's hard to do.
Yeah, thank you.
That is a huge goal for us,
so I'm really glad I appreciate
you saying that it absolutely.
It's not easy to do.
That was one of the learnings that we
had early on when we were splintering
off into multiple locations.
The very first.
This very second location we
ever did was in downtown Dallas,
and we didn't know what we
were doing in terms of managing
2 separate locations.
And the consistency went way
over. The cookies got huge. Like just giant.
Yeah, they got big so that staff turn
their ovens up now they were bigger and
they were darker and they were crunchier.
And we just upon one visit and
we were going there frequently.
But upon one visit we were like,
OK, we've got a we need to start
again and it was communication.
And that was The thing is,
we weren't communicating enough.
We weren't communicating face to
face and we weren't communicating
frequently and effectively.
And so that's.
And you got to put as the forefront.
You know that we want consistency.
It's going to be important.
That's very interesting too, that you,
and and and I think that's another
take away for people who are going
into business for themselves.
As you've got to watch that product.
I mean, you've got to like, have eyes on it.
Even if it's in another city you're
visiting and checking it out and
making sure so you all are still.
I mean, I know that you're
so sprawling right now,
and this company is huge now.
How hands on are you still
all of these years in?
Probably more than our team would like.
She work here every day. I mean we are.
We are very much still in it. It just
depends on what you know when it
comes to the look and feel of
the brand and and every single.
Everything, every single thing we sell,
it has to go through to write
her name is on the side.
She's got to approve it.
They probably don't want us
in the stores at this point.
We have some operators that are so good.
If we got if we went in
there and tried to help,
they would just roll their eyes and
then we would just be in the way.
Yeah, they're like operations
team that's taken OPS to the next
level for us and so that's been a
really big joy for us to be able
to hand that off and see it for us.
Yeah, if you want to scale up like that,
you almost have to let go of a little bit.
You're in there and have people you trust,
and actually then trust them to do
the job that you've hired them to do.
Do you guys? I used to deliver bread for Mrs.
Bairds many moons ago as a college
student and there got to be a point
where I could not eat another fried pie.
You know, because it's just like,
oh, you're just eating it constantly,
you know, and and for years I
couldn't eat another fried pie.
Do y'all still eat it?
Yes, yeah, I can't
imagine that you don't because it's just
too good for this book. There's 25.
I think there's maybe 30 homemade
versions of tiffs treats recipes.
So we had to try them all out and we were
eating more cookies the past year than I've
ever that was. That was a lot when
we were crafting the recipes,
but even without that we do taste
tests a lot and new flavor tests,
and so probably more even when
you're not feeling like it.
But honestly, cookies are
easy to love all the time.
I think you can always eat them.
Is chocolate chip the biggest seller?
Yeah, that gooey chocolate chip and is
there something you know on the radar?
Maybe that's coming
flavorwise that's different.
Well, we always run flavors of the month,
so right now today,
in fact is our first day of our
Valentine's Day Sprinkle Cookie,
which will be running all of February.
So you can get that starting now and then.
Every month will release a new flavor,
but I can't tell you what they are,
'cause it's a surprise.
And last thing,
I always ask this when there's a
book that has recipes in it, do you?
I mean, you built this huge business.
Obviously you don't want people to be
able to like totally replicated at home.
Do you have to leave out like
a little secret? You know,
fairy dust that gets sprinkled in?
You had to leave out one little thing.
No, I wouldn't say leave it out,
but you do have to formulate them
differently for home because
we're talking about smaller batch,
so they're tweaked so that it is a
home version of the tips treats recipe,
but we're certainly not leaving
anything out to make it less good.
They're very,
very good, so they are tweaked tiffs,
treats, got to say that one
really slowly, but you know,
it's never going to taste the same at
home. Well, you know it's
difficult. Baking is not easy.
Yeah, and and we notice not everyone has
the consistent baking ovens as well,
so it's not just the recipe,
but the equipment at home versus,
you know, in a location is very
different as far as consistency goes.
Well, thank you both for taking the time.
I know that you've got this huge cookie
empire that you're trying to oversee,
so I I know that time is valuable.
Tiff and Leon Chan.
It's actually Tiffany, but you know,
we just know where his tiff
heading up tiffs treats there and.
Keeping us all like in those warm,
gooey cookies.
I appreciate you taking the
time. Thank you, Jason,
thank you. Thank
you. Much success much continued success.
Thank you so much. I need to wait,
wait, I've got to say this at the
end too because you'll have the
book coming out this new book.
It's not just cookies, stories and
recipes from the tiffs treats kitchen
that's coming out in April, right?
Get it now. You can get
it now online anywhere
so you can pre order now but it's
coming out in April so look for that
in case you want to try some of
these tweaked tiffs treats at home.
Thanks to both of you.
Thank you so much. Great talking to you.