Then it's time to find a better moral example, and that is Jesus Christ.
What's the problem with this?
It's not contradiction. It's nothing. It's nothing
No, what was the concern about the-?
No, I'm just talking about the
scientific contradiction and stuff in the Qur'an, and I was asking questions about
like for example, I asked him ab out where semen is made between like the backbone and whatever.
Just asking about this because I feel like there's a few scientific, like contradictions and stuff like that.
Okay. So are you speaking from the Muslim the perspective that you want to clarify?
No, no. I am a Christian.
You're a Christian. Okay. No, no problem. My name is Mansur, what's your name?
Sydney. I know about you.
Sydney. That's fine. No, no. We can, you see look Speaker's Corner is
where we can exchange information so that we learn from each other, and if there are
issues like this we can clarify them as best as we can. So let's start with the issues of
semen production, as you said. So remind me, exactly what is your understanding that the Quran is
saying and what is the problem? Because first we need to understand what the Quran is saying first,
link that with our scientific knowledge of today. And then see whether they are in contradiction, or
actually they are mutually, you know something that's reconcilable.
Yeah. Go ahead.
So what I'm saying is it says something about semen being produced in
between the backbo- I can't remember exactly where but-
I can help you with that, as much you remember.
That's not where it actually is created, like that's where it's got it wrong.
Like in science, modern science, we know that's not where semen is produced.
So that's a clear contradiction in the Quran. Right?
What I will do is, I will show you the Qur'anic ayah (verse).
In English translation of course, for you to to read and it'll help you to remember
what it is. But I can tell you from the outset, it doesn't talk about semen production at all.
That's one thing. So if this was your understanding of the verse of the Quran, ayah of the Quran,
then we need to revisit this Qur'anic ayah (verse), and understand what it's saying.
I can bring it up from my phone, is that okay?
Can you put that in the bag?
I'm not here for much longer though.
No, look. (x3)
Just this question.
We want to just clarify some of the issues people may
have, and this seems to be a quite a common one actually. So let's let's go through it.
This is in this chapter here.
Surah number 86.
And,
from verse or ayah 5 onwards. And of course, we can talk about from the beginning, and later on.
"So now let man think from what he is created, he's created from a drop emitted,
proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs." That's what you're talking about, right?
"Surely God, Allah is able to bring him back to life."
So here from what you remember, what you understand is, this is talking about a gushing
fluid, okay? So you can get any translation that you feel but it's the same thing like this is;
Mohsin Khan.
"He's created from a water gushing forth."
So he's talking about this reproductive fluid, okay?
And then it talks about, "Something proceeds from between the backbone and the ribs."
So is it talking about proceeding of something?
Or origination or production of something?
Let's clarify that one first.
It's proceeding fluid
Yeah. So it doesn't talk about how things are produced, where things are produced.
So in the Arabic, does it actually talk about like, does the word actually translate properly to proceeding?
Yakhruju. Kharaja, Yakhruju.
To draw forth. To come out. To exit. That's why خروج you'll see, it's an exit. Yeah?
So this is the word خرج. So it comes out from in this between.
So it's talking about that this, whatever that is,
which I will explain to you very briefly, from in between these two places, okay? Now what if I told you
this doesn't talk about, the proceeding is referring to the human being.
The human being that comes in between these two areas that is mentioned.
Firstly when it talks about in between two places,
in between, we need to understand what exactly one in between means. If I say in between the sun
and-
In between the sun and the earth,
which planet do you have in mind?
Between the sun and the earth? Like Venus and
Mercury.
Mercury, Venus.
Are you gonna draw a line between the two points, sun and the earth, and draw something in the middle?
Of course, not. Right.
If I say in between A and Z or Z, what letter of the alphabet comes to your mind?
Wait, say that again.
Between A and Z.
Like Y or something. Just any of them.
Any one of those letters, right? Right. So in between doesn't necessarily mean in the middle.
That's what we need to understand first of all. So between A and Z or A and Z, it could be from B to all the
way to Y, right? Any of this. So in Arabic, (Arabic Word) refers to something like this and we know from the
statement of our Prophet (PBUH), our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH),
he talks about how if a believer can guarantee what is in between his two lips, and between his two legs,
he guarantees
paradise. He guarantees paradise. Now what is in between two lips? We talk about the tongue.
So he's talking about if someone can control their speech and speak properly, right?
And in between the two legs, right? It could be anything in between.
But we know he talks about the private organs.
So you can understand what is in between doesn't necessarily mean this. Right.
You answered my question. That's all I wanted.
Right.
So this verse or this chapter talks about; "Let man think
and reflect or see."
(Recites verse from Qur'an)
"Have not man seen what he's created from?" So it's addressing the human being; "Where have you been
created from?" So then it talks about one thing he's created from, a gushing fluid, self-emitting.
And we know that the semin- seminal fluid which can contains the human sperm, the sperm is...
My friend, cheer up.
It's alright. Thank you very much.
In Arabic, it means smile.
Good. But we are having- we are having a conversation, we are trying to focus.
No, I am not taking you serious.
You must be mad to take this guy serious.
I am listening to what he has to say. I don't agree with whatever he says.
Don't agree with him.
But...
You're on the wrong day to be happy, right? Go somewhere else to be happy.
You know how long I know this guy?
At least 30 years. He hasn't changed.
That's how consistent I am. Alhamdulillah.
Same, when he was really young man...
When we talk about consistency of intellectual arguments, reason and intellectual
discussion. I hope I haven't changed. Right. Because this is what we hope, people need to be consistent
in their truthfulness, in their uprightness, in their righteousness. Do you agree?
Whatever you're going to believe in your life, you have to have evidence.
Don't believe in stories, and we have anything you want to believe,
we need to have a proof, evidence in your hand.
You know, these people, they only have faith.
Ok, yeah. Go on.
I mean if you felt that someone is undermining your intellect and
confidence, I do apologize on his behalf.
Some people think just because you're young,
you're not intelligent as they are.
But anyway.
So, number 4, Ayah number 5 talks about: "Let man think what he's created from."
Created from-
So this talks about creation.
خُلق (Khuliqa)
"Created from a gushing fluid." So in an Arabic, the word is used "Ma / ما", Ma is also used
to refer to in general, the reproductive fluid, but in which contains the sperm.
What is interesting, I'm sure if you have studied science at school, that the sperm
has a tail, and it wiggles that tail to travel by itself. So it's a self propellant,
self directing, moving. It's something that moves by itself, propelled by itself.
The word that is used here means, in Arabic construction this is something
that people can you know reflect on.
In normal Arabic it should have said me,
but it says,
it means someone who
himself does the job, right?
That means that sperm, or the reproductive fluid containing the sperm,
is itself propelling to move forward. That is something astonishing, because we didn't know
about the anatomy and physiology of a sperm that it contains a tail, that is propelling itself to drive.
that's one thing to be very, you know amazed about and reflect on. Secondly it talks about then
"And it proceeds from in between these two places." Now either it refers to that
sperm or the reproductive fluid, proceeds from in between the backbone and the ribs,
or the noun that was earlier on about human being.
So either the human proceeds from it or the reproductive fluid containing the sperm
or the semen that proceeds from it. If you look at the context,
the context tells you even later on "Surely, God is able to bring him back." It's not talking about the
the reproductive fluid, it's talking about the human being. The day when all the secrets
were examined, then will man have no power. "He" the pronoun here- So you will see the pronouns that are
mentioned subsequently, all referring to the human being. So contextually we know this refers to
more appropriately to the human being. Now does the human being proceed in between the backbone
and the ribs? And we know that it, the human being does. At what point? During pregnancy and delivery.
When the baby is born in the womb of the mother, is actually exactly in between the backbone of
the ribs here. And the baby then proceeds from it. So in this light linguistically and contextually,
you see this is this verse has nothing to do with the scientific error or a contradiction.
You answered my question. Thank you.
Thank you.
Any others that you have in mind?
No no, I am freezing cold.
All right. Do you want my coat? Take my coat.
I'm freezing the whole time.
What if you wear my coat and then if you have any other questions to ask?
No no, It's fine.
I appreciate speaking to you, and if that helps you to clarify that actually sometimes we need to
go into the language itself, look into the context, look into the proper understanding
of science. Because many people just to, you know, finish this up. Many people think that sperm
comes from the testicles, during the human coitus, or ejaculation. Actually it doesn't come from it.
This is where it's produced, it travels along the seminal vesicles, the vas deferens,
it's stored along there, and it's only from the vas deferens and the ampulla, that's where it
emanates during coitus act. People don't even know the science and yet they start questioning about
the the verses in the Quran. Do you have a copy of the Quran at home?
Yes, I do.
You do? Okay, that's fine.
Thank you. Please read, reflect, and if you have any questions about you know-
No, look. Do you know what we believe about Christ?
Are we going to go there now?
No, another time. Because you're feeling cold.
But anyway one point- one point I want to, before you go to leave you with this, that we should
worship none but the one and only true creator.
And... No, no. Do you agree? Even you as a Christian,
you should really believe, that the only one worthy of your worship, is none but the God one and only.
Do you agree?
Of course.
Exactly. So that's why we want to really bring ourselves to the understanding that
who is this one and only God? And how do we worship this God, unless through the prophets and messenger?
And Prophet Muhammad we believe (PBUH), is the final messenger through which we can reach
this worship of God. Okay?
Take care, my friend. Okay.
Perhaps we can talk again another time.
Thank you.