- Welcome, everybody.
Today, we have a very special guest,
and we're going to be talking about
how you can get someone to stop interrupting you,
but do it nicely.
But we're gonna use some subtle cues to help us do that.
And our guest today is Vanessa Van Edwards.
Hi, Vanessa, how are you?
- I'm so good. Happy to be here.
- I'm so happy to have you.
Vanessa has over 700,000 subscribers on YouTube.
I'll put a link to her channel below.
She has a book out from a few years ago called "Captivate,"
and she has a new book out called "Cues."
And this is all about those small little signals
we send that create a huge impact.
And today, we're going to be talking about
how to use small, subtle cues to get people
to stop interrupting you
so that you can express the important messages
that you have to say.
So Vanessa, we're gonna talk about four cues in the book
to help people stop interrupting us,
but do it in a nice way.
In fact, so nicely that they might not even realize
you're doing this, right?
If you do it right.
So... Go ahead.
- Actually discovering these cues,
there was a very polite person who began to use them,
and I noticed that it worked.
This actually comes from very polite person I know
who is expert at getting people to stop talking
and stop interrupting.
So they work. They really work.
- This is the way excellent people do this naturally.
So let's talk first about the fish.
Tell us about this tip.
- Okay, so as humans, we are cued
when someone is about to speak,
they have to open their mouth.
And so what happens is,
is if you're speaking and someone goes,
it's like you just did a little, "Excuse me, excuse me"
with your mouth.
And so if they're speaking,
especially when they go ah
or pause for even the slightest second,
it can be a little bit aggressive just jump in right then.
What you can do is,
like a fish.
If you're really, really brave,
you can even make a little fish sound effect.
I wouldn't actually recommend making a fish sound effect,
but it can make a little noise,
of just a little fish.
You're like saying, "Excuse me. Excuse me."
So yeah, just a little mouth open.
It also works on video calls.
So if you're on mute but you wanna say something,
you can try and just to your little screen.
- [Alex] Right.
- 'Cause they'll kind of see out of the corner of their eye.
- And I like this because if you're trying to get
into a conversation in the first place,
and there's someone who won't shut up, it helps you get in.
But if they start talking over you,
try to interrupt you,
you can stay in that posture in a natural way,
and they'll be like, "Oh, she's not done yet."
- Exactly. Yes.
So you can also hold the fish.
I don't know what metaphor that would be,
what animal always has their mouth open.
But you can hold your fish open to say.
- Yeah. Yep.
- [Vanessa] I still have something to say.
- Yeah, I know someone who does a version of this.
They start moving their mouth
as if they're about to say something.
And I don't know if they're doing it
to get the conversation back or just it's a habit,
but every this person does it,
I notice I'm, "Oh, I better...
Maybe she wants to get in the conversation."
It really does send a powerful but subtle signal.
- Remember, our eye is drawn to motion.
So if you're moving your mouth, either open or moving,
our eye is drawn to that,
and then it stops our thoughts
so we can let you speak,
which is also the next one, which is the bookmark.
- The bookmark.
Yeah. I love this.
I love your branding on these.
It really makes it easier.
Tell us about the bookmark.
- Yeah, you have to have names for these,
otherwise you forget them.
So first we start with the fish.
Then we start with the bookmark.
So the bookmark, remember our eye is drawn
to the things in motion.
We're also cued, a universal cue is this.
If I put my hand out,
no matter what the language, no matter what the culture,
it means stop.
Excuse me. - Yeah.
- Look at my hand.
So you can use this very subtly as just a...
- Yes.
- So really low and light. Right?
Even on video that works,
as they keep talking, and talking, and talking,
you can...
(laughs) Closer to them, right?
- You're gonna start to notice this at some point.
- Right, like if you just start with just, oh,
it's like as if you know, when a teacher was speaking
and you had a question, you'd raise your hand.
It's the same thing in conversation.
Just you could start low and easy,
and then as they keep going, you get closer to their face.
- Right. (laughs)
- Oh, that's pretty close.
- And here they better stop.
- That's pretty close. Yeah.
I have done this many times.
I teach college,
and sometimes, a student,
I'll be right about to finish a thought, they'll be,
but they wanna jump in 'cause they're excited.
And I'll just say like, just hold on just a second.
And then I'll give them a chance.
And it really works in a lot of different situations.
- So yes.
That's the other way is if you know,
you just got one more little point,
just one more little thing.
Let me just finish once,
you can get them to hold off for like 10 to 20 seconds
with that as well.
Which is good so that it can stop them
from interrupting you.
- Right. And the third one is called the anchor touch.
Tell us about this.
- Okay. So this is for your dreamers.
Now, there are some people who talk, and talk, and talk
because they're narcissists
and they wanna they love hearing themselves talk.
They're hard to get to stop,
but there are some certain kinds
of people who are daydreamers.
When they're talking it's almost like
they're just verbalizing
and they're in a different planet, right?
They're like up here.
So they're up here
so they don't notice your mouth open.
They don't notice your hand.
And these are people who often look off to the side
as they're processing.
So you cannot get their attention.
It's like they totally have forgotten you're there.
So one way you can bring them back down to earth
is with a light touch,
literally anchoring them
with to the hand, or forearm, or shoulder.
So kind of a rule of thumb, the farther up the arm you go
the more intimate the touch becomes.
So the hand is the least intimate area,
and the forearm, and the upper, and the back.
So I always like to do the hand,
maybe like a light touch on the hand
or a light touch on the arm,
and you can pair it with one of the other cues, so.
Right? Or...
And as you get closer, you go to the touch.
That's how I use this.
By the way, if you get to the anchor touch,
if they still have not stopped talking
and you're all the way there,
this might not be a person
you wanna stay in conversation with, like maybe.
So usually I'm using the fish,
and I'm using the bookmark,
and the bookmarks getting closer and closer, and closer
until I'm literally holding their hand
to say, "I'm still here.
It's my turn." - Yeah.
- I would like to say something please.
It usually it brings them right down to earth.
- It really does ground them again.
I've seen spouses, usually old couples,
do this to each other.
One of them is going on
and then you see the spouse kind of like touch their spouse,
like, "Okay, that's enough.
That's enough."
- So that's called the loving pat.
- That's the loving pat.
- And we all know a loving pat.
When my husband lovingly,
it means, yeah, like stop talking.
You're done.
I don't know about that.
Do you need go to the bathroom?
Or should we take a break?
That's time to go.
Like we all know the loving pat.
- The loving pat.
That's that's enough for now.
That's enough.
And now, if you know ahead of time,
we all know those people ahead of time,
who like to dominate a conversation,
what can we do at the start of a conversation
to set ourselves up for success
and prevent those interruptions?
- Okay. So this is one of my most powerful techniques,
not only for preventing interrupters,
but also increasing competence.
So whether or not you have interrupter in the room,
get into the habit of using what I call
the preview technique.
The preview technique is previewing to someone,
I know what I wanna say.
In fact it's gonna be three different quick things
I wanna talk about.
So first, second, third.
Your turn.
The reason why we like this
is because sometimes if someone's explaining something
and they sound long-winded,
and we think they're not going anywhere, we tune out.
But if they started the conversation saying,
"Listen, can I go over three different things with you?"
One, they're more likely to pay attention.
Two, we sound less long-winded because it's purposeful,
and three, you prevent interrupters.
You noticed how I just did that right then.
- Yep. That's good.
I see you're practicing.
- Yeah, the interrupter goes, "Oh man, I wanna talk,
but I better wait till three."
Like she's not at three yet, so I better wait.
So that's a technique that you can do
whether You have an interrupter or not.
- Yeah, it's a good foundational, good fundamental
to preview your main points.
- You know, funny thing is I actually learned that technique
teaching on YouTube.
So on YouTube, we like videos that have
some kind of a structure.
We don't wanna just like turn on the video
and listen to someone chat at us for 10 minutes.
And so I've noticed that at the beginning of a video,
just like we did at this video.
- [Alex] Just like we did.
- We have four tips we're gonna talk about.
People think, "Okay, they planned for this video,"
which we did.
Good job us.
And second, they're like, "Oh, I wanna hear all four."
So this is great as a presenter,
a content creator, a teacher.
It's a really great way to show
I know my stuff I prepped for you.
Please listen to all of them.
- Yeah, that roadmap, I think, gives the listener confidence
that they will get their turn eventually,
but they've just gotta let the speaker talk
for their three or two points or whatever it is.
I do this to my wife,
now, I don't do it because,
she's not an interrupter, but she does get excited.
And so I'll say,
"Hey, I wanna share a couple of things with you."
When I was telling her about your book,
she said, "Oh, you do that to me.
You tell me, oh, there's two things.
And then I know that I've gotta wait for the
second one before I jump in."
So it works interpersonally, presentations, small groups.
It works all over the place.
Now, let's reverse engineer this.
If you know ahead of time that you've got
a wicked interrupter,
you give the preview,
and then in your back pocket, you've got the fish,
you've got the bookmark,
and you've got the anchoring touch.
And in combination they will not feel
like you're pushing them around.
They're just gonna feel
like you're an effective communicator.
She's got a plan, I'm listening.
And it prevents you from having to, you know, escalate,
"Hey, you're interrupting me," and confront them.
You know, this is a first line of defense
against an interrupter.
And I think it's really a great collection of tips.
- You know, you've said something interesting there,
which, you know, I'm a recovering awkward person.
That's what my communication tips, you know,
these things don't come naturally to me.
And so I think what these cues do
is they put us in control.
And control for me is the sister emotion to confidence.
It's really hard for me to get confidence,
but I am able to get into control.
What used to happen when I didn't have these tips
is I would be with someone who's a long talker
and get anxious, you know?
Like, I'd be like, "Do I jump in now?"
Like, "Oh, it's gonna be rude if I interrupt them.
Oh, like, he's not respecting me."
Like I would grow into this anxiety.
And then by the time it came to my turn,
I'd be like, "Please listen to my side of the story!"
- Right, and they're like, "Whoa, where'd that come from?"
- And they're like, "Okay, calm down."
So I think that why we do these
is it gives us something to do,
that makes us feel in control,
that makes us an effective communicator.
So I think confidence can come from control.
And there are 96 cues. These are four of them.
Actually, we talked about five of them.
And those are, I think what helps us feel
like we don't have to get anxious or awkward.
We know exactly what we have to do.
- Right.
And then I think the icing, these are all nonverbal,
but I think the icing on the cake,
well, the preview is verbal,
but another one you can simply accompany these
by saying, "Oh, I'm almost finished."
And at that point, it can be a very subtle verbal statement
that reinforces what you're doing with your body,
what you're doing with your gestures.
So I think it all works together quite well.
- And you can even say, I have a little spiel.
It's gonna take me a few minutes.
Let me explain the whole thing.
And then I'm gonna take all of your questions.
I can't wait to hear them.
- Right.
- So that's the other thing is
knowing you're gonna be long-winded,
but then saying I really want your feedback.
Just listen to the whole thin, and then I'll get it all.
So that's also how we can be congruent
with our verbal and our non-verbal.
- Well, let me talk about your book one last time
before we we sign off.
It's fantastic. I'm working my way through it.
It's called "Cues."
You can find it everywhere.
It's on numerous best seller lists.
And I think Amazon is the most obvious place
you can quickly locate it.
- And I read the Audible, if you like my voice.
- Yeah. Audible's fantastic.
I saw you made a video about you in the studio doing that.
That must have been an exhausting day.
- It was three eight-hour days.
- Oh, three days?
You compressed it in your social media post.
But I will put links to all of that for your viewers
in the description below the video.
Please check out Vanessa's book and her channel.
Vanessa, thank you so much for joining us today.
It's been such a pleasure.
- Oh my goodness. I love what you do.
I love what you're teaching.
I'm so honored to be on, and I can't wait to just support.
We gotta grow together.
So thanks everyone for watching.
The fact that you're here means you're learning,
and we all get to learn together.
- Absolutely. Thanks, see you all later.
Bye-bye. - Bye!