Please welcome CNN's senior international correspondent,
Nima Elbagir.
(cheering and applause)
Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
Your story that broke on CNN
about the slave trade in Africa
was one that was truly one of the most shocking stories
most people had ever heard.
Slavery in 2018,
is it as widespread as it seems to be?
Is it something that people should be
as worried as they are?
In Libya, yes.
And I think that this is something
we're still trying to piece together.
We're still working to understand this.
And what is extraordinary is that the slavery
-is part and parcel of their business model. -Right.
You want to go to Europe.
You have been sold on this dream of Europe.
And they send out-- almost like advertising campaigns--
people into these communities.
These young kids, 17, 18, 19, "we can get you to Europe.
"You don't have the money? We will give you the money.
-We will loan you the money." -Wow.
So it's indentured servitude built into it.
That's the Nigerian or the Eritrean aspect,
the different source countries.
When you get to Libya, then they say,
"Well, actually, how much did you pay?
"No. It is thousands more.
And this is how you're going to pay if off."
And a lot of these people are then, uh, held as, uh,
you know, they-they're kidnapped by the slave traders.
Their families have to pay a ransom.
How is it that the story doesn't seem to filter back to everyone
that is trying to find their way to a better life?
Is it that people don't believe it?
Or is it just th-there is no network in the countries
to warn people of the slave trade?
I think it's a combination of the fact
that human optimism has no limits.
-People presume this isn't gonna happen to me. -Right.
And also, that they are coming from
the most horrifying environments.
The poverty, uh,
the repression in countries like Eritrea,
the war in the west of Sudan, where I'm from in Darfur,
-and anything looks better than that. -Right.
When you look at the people who are traveling
across to these countries,
oftentimes, people don't seem to express
as much sympathy for them, because they go like,
"Well, they're trying to sneak into another country,
"or they're, you know, they're trying to get there.
They're trying to smuggle themselves in."
You take issue with that term, "smuggling." Why?
I do, because especially when
you hear the term, "economic migrant."
There's this real sense that they're kind of trying to,
to lay that down, "economic migrant."
Like people are kind of wandering onto a plane,
dragging their carry-ons behind them.
"Here we are. We're economically migrating."
They're being trafficked.
And smuggling legally and trafficking,
they're very difficult to kind of disentangle.
But when you-- as I was in that little clip you showed--
when you are told that part of your journey,
sexual abuse, and rape and exploitation,
is part of that journey, that's trafficking.
And therefore, when people call it "economic migration,"
they're choosing to step back and not act.
When you were...
creating that story,
when you were reporting on that, you went undercover
-Yeah. -as a would-be migrant trying to work her way through
to see how it all goes down.
That must have been a terrifying experience.
Did it give you a larger understanding
of what women are going through in Africa
as they try to make their way to these European countries?
Yeah, because in the moment, I think...
Of course, I know intellectually
that, first of all, I'm not alone.
-I had my amazing producer Lillian Leposo with me, -Right.
and we had... we had a backup plan.
-You know, we had, you know, a cordon, in a sense. -Right.
But in that moment, when that man was so close...
And I'd spent about 45 minutes in a car with him...
(exhales) It just...
I mean, it's-it's ridiculous,
but it's horrible to even think about it.
You know, him kind of squeezed against me.
-The intimidation. -Right.
And he looked down, and he saw my wedding ring,
and he said to me, "Are you married?"
And I said, "Yes." And he said,
"That doesn't exist anymore. Not on this journey."
And it was... it was a tiny glimpse
into what these kids,
these 17, 18, 19-year-old girls...
How must it feel for them?
When you look at responsibility,
is there a reason it's happening in Libya specifically?
Why is that the hotbed of the slave trade right now?
Because you have entire communities,
entire towns-- for example, like Sabha,
which is the main thoroughfare into Libya
down in the southeast.
That is under the control of militias and criminal gangs.
-Right. -You have no government footprint
far out beyond Tripoli,
and you have competing power bases.
And I remember President Obama,
at the end of his administration
he said that he believed Libya was one of the biggest mistakes
because there was no effective intervention.
And this is what a lack of it--
effective intervention-- looks like.
-Right. -A failed state.
You... I-It is a dilemma for many people.
I-I always wondered
how the people of Libya feel about it.
Because at the time, the story was liberation.
Muammar Gaddafi has been killed.
The country is free.
And then you look at Libya now,
and it's descended into a world
where there is literally a slave trade.
Do people now look back and-and wish on a time
-when Muammar Gaddafi was in power? -Yeah.
Amazingly, they do.
There is this extraordinary nostalgia
for Gaddafi and his rule
-because there's a nostalgia for stability. -Right.
Because their hope was that...
And, you know, obviously it's incredibly naive to believe
that any country would want to put boots on the ground
-post the Iraq experience. -Right. Right.
But there was a sense that there would at least be some kind
-of stabilization effort. -Right.
And that didn't happen.
And so people are kind of looking back and saying,
"Well, when was the last time we were stable?
Oh. It was under Gaddafi."
Wow, that's a scary place to be in.
For people who see these stories on this side of the world...
I mean, after your report came out,
people were hashtagging.
Many of us felt helpless because you are.
Is there anything that a person on this side of the world can do
to help in any way with the situation?
Well, I mean, we are honestly just so incredibly grateful
that you, you know, you've had me on tonight.
Because as long as we keep reminding people
that this is still happening...
Because I think at the time, everybody heard all this noise.
-Right. -And we all thought,
"Well, something, someone, somewhere--
"I don't know who it is,
-but someone is doing something, goddamn it." -Right.
-But, of course, no one was. -Wow.
The Security Council met four times,
and they still haven't...
they still haven't found an effective way through this.
But I think if we keep reminding them that we care,
then I think ultimately they will be forced to do something.
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
To learn more about Nima's reporting
and to get involved in the fight against modern-day slavery,
go to cnn.com/freedom.
Nima Elbagir, everybody.