[ APPLAUSE ] >>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
I’M MEGYN KELLY.
DENNIS RODMAN WILL BE HERE IN A
MOMENT.
MOMENT. BUT WE BEGIN, TODAY, WITH THE
ESCALATING SITUATION DOWN AT OUR
SOUTHERN BORDER.
SOUTHERN BORDER. AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION’S
ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY CAUSING A
FIRESTORM, TO PUT IT MILDLY.
AT ISSUE IS THE FORCED
SEPARATION OF THOUSANDS OF
MIGRANT CHILDREN FROM THEIR
PARENTS, WHO ENTERED THE UNITED
STATES ILLEGALLY.
STATES ILLEGALLY. NBC’S CRAIG MELVIN HAS MORE.
>> Reporter: THIS MORNING,
GOVERNMENT PROCESSING CENTERS
LIKE THIS ONE ARE OVERFLOWING
WITH THOUSANDS OF MIGRANTS, MANY
FLEEING GANG VIOLENCE IN CENTRAL
AMERICA.
AMERICA. IN NEWLY RELEASED AUDIO SAID TO
BE RECORDED INSIDE ONE OF THESE
FACILITIES, YOU CAN HEAR THE
DESPERATION OF CHILDREN
SEPARATED FROM THEIR PARENTS.
>> MOMMY.
>> MOMMY. [ CRYING ]
>> Reporter: WE TALKED WITH THE
ATTORNEY WHO RELEASED THE TAPE,
WHICH NBC NEWS COULD NOT
INDEPENDENTLY VERIFY.
INDEPENDENTLY VERIFY. >> THE REACTION HAS BEEN MORE OR
LESS A PRIMAL SCREAM FROM
EVERYONE.
EVERYONE. THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING.
THIS IS TERRIBLE.
>> Reporter: IN APRIL, THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION STARTED ENFORCING
WHAT IT CALLS A ZERO TOLERANCE
POLICY.
POLICY. MIGRANTS CROSSING INTO THE U.S.
ILLEGALLY, CONSIDERED CRIMINALS,
ARRESTED AND PUT INTO DETENTION
FACILITIES.
FACILITIES. THEIR CHILDREN SENT TO SEPARATE
FACILITIES.
FACILITIES. OVERNIGHT, ATTORNEY GENERAL JEFF
SESSIONS DEFENDED THE POLICY,
ARGUING THAT IT WILL ACT AS A
DETERRENT.
DETERRENT. >> HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL GET THE
MESSAGE AND COME THROUGH THE
BORDER AT THE PORT OF ENTRY AND
NOT BREAK ACROSS THE BORDER
UNLAWFULLY.
UNLAWFULLY. >> Reporter: SESSIONS TRYING TO
DOWNPLAY COMPARISONS TO WORLD
WAR II CONCENTRATION CAMPS.
>> IT’S A REAL EXAGGERATION.
IN NAZI GERMANY THEY WERE
KEEPING THE JEWS FROM LEAVING
THE COUNTRY.
THE COUNTRY. >> Reporter: HOMELAND SECURITY
ADMITS NEARLY 2,000 CHILDREN
HAVE BEEN SEPARATED FROM THEIR
PARENTS.
PARENTS. >> WE’RE ENFORCING THE LAWS AS
THEY EXIST ON THE BOOKS.
>> Reporter: THE SECRETARY NOW
ON THE DEFENSE.
>> WHAT’S HAPPENING AT THE
BORDER IS THE BORDER IS BEING
OVERRUN BY THOSE WHO HAVE NO
RIGHT TO CROSS IT.
>> THE DEMOCRATS --
>> Reporter: PRESIDENT TRUMP
PLAYING DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS,
SAYING THE SITUATION COULD BE
FIXED WITH A NEW IMMIGRATION
LAW.
LAW. >> THE UNITED STATES WILL NOT BE
A MIGRANT CAMP.
AND IT WILL NOT BE A REFUGEE
HOLDING FACILITY.
HOLDING FACILITY. >> Reporter: THOSE HELPING
MIGRANTS SAY THE POLICY WILL NOT
STOP THOSE FLEEING FOR THEIR
LIVES.
LIVES. >> PUNISHING A 5-YEAR-OLD BY
TAKING HER MOM AWAY, SO YOU CAN
DETER FUTURE ASYLUM SEEKERS IS A
HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION.
>> Reporter: AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR
HERE, MEGYN, THERE IS NO LAW
THAT REQUIRES THAT CHILDREN BE
SEPARATED FROM THEIR PARENTS.
NONETHELESS, WORD, A SHORT TIME
AGO, THAT TEXAS SENATOR
REPUBLICAN, TED CRUZ, WILL BE
INTRODUCING LEGISLATION, PERHAPS
AS EARLY AS TODAY, TO TRY AND
FIX THIS PROBLEM.
ALSO, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SET TO
MEET WITH CONGRESSIONAL
REPUBLICANS THIS AFTERNOON.
MEANWHILE, IT WAS REVEALED
YESTERDAY THAT NEARLY 2,000
CHILDREN OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS
HAD BEEN SEPARATED FROM THEIR
PARENTS HERE ALONG THE BORDER.
I’M IN BROWNSVILLE, TEXAS.
>> 2,000.
>> 2,000. WHAT A NUMBER, CRAIG, AND
GROWING.
GROWING. JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS IT,
DANIEL GOLDMAN.
DANIEL GOLDMAN. AMY HOLMES, CO-HOST OF PBS’ "IN
PRINCIPLE."
PRINCIPLE." AND MEGAN TWOHEY IS HERE, AS
WELL.
WELL. LET’S START WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND WHAT HE SAID.
THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED WITH A
LAW, DAN.
LAW, DAN. FIXED WITH A LAW.
THE LAW DIDN’T CHANGE, FROM GWB
TO PRESIDENT OBAMA TO DONALD
TRUMP.
TRUMP. THE LAW IS THE SAME.
SOMETHING HAS CHANGED, WHICH IS
TRUMP’S ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY
FOR ANYONE CROSSING INTO THE
UNITED STATES ILLEGALLY.
>> THIS IS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF
MISINFORMATION ABOUT THIS ENTIRE
THING.
THING. THERE DOES NOT NEED TO BE A
CONGRESSIONAL FIX TO THIS
POLICY.
POLICY. WHAT THEY DID IS, THEY DECIDED
TO WE ARE, IN INSTEAD OF WHAT WE
HAVE DONE, IS TO PUT PEOPLE IN
DETENTION CENTERS AND DEPART
THEM.
THEM. WE ARE GOING TO PROSECUTE THEM.
WHEN YOU PROSECUTE SOMEONE, THEY
GO TO JAIL.
AND BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE DON’T
HAVE STATUS, THEY DON’T GET
BAIL.
BAIL. SO, JAILS DID NOT HAVE CAPACITY.
>> BABY SITTING FACILITIES.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. WHEN YOU ARREST SOMEONE, THEY GO
TO JAIL AND THE KIDS MUST BE
SEPARATED FROM THEM.
THAT HAPPENS AT EVERY ARREST
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
SOME ARRESTS, WE WANT THAT IN
OUR COUNTRY.
OUR COUNTRY. WE WANT TO ARREST TERRORISTS AND
SEX TRAFFICKERS.
SEX TRAFFICKERS. >> SOMEBODY PULLS A GUN ON A
BORDER PAROLE AGENT.
YOU’RE GOING TO JAIL, IF YOU
HAVE A CHILD WITH YOU OR NOT.
>> THIS IS A BALANCE THAT WE
STRUCK IN THIS COUNTRY.
AND THE DIFFERENCE NOW IS THESE
PEOPLE ARE BEING PROSECUTED FOR
A MISDEMEANOR.
A MISDEMEANOR. THEY’RE LIKELY NOT GOING TO
SERVE A JAIL SENTENCE.
THEY’RE LIKELY JUST TO GET
CONVICTED, SENTENCED TO TIME
SERVED AND DEPARTORTED.
THE SAME THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN
IF THEY WERE BROUGHT TO THE
IMMIGRATION CENTER.
IMMIGRATION CENTER. >> AND POSSIBLY WITHOUT THEIR
CHILDREN.
CHILDREN. >> THE DIFFERENCE IS, THEY’RE
SEPARATED FROM THEIR CHILDREN.
IT’S THE SAME NET RESULT, BUT
THE DIFFERENCE IS THE CHILDREN
ARE SEPARATED FROM THEM.
>> THERE’S A QUESTION WHETHER
THE PUNISHMENT IS FITTING THE
CRIME.
CRIME. >> THIS IS A D.O.J. POLICY, NOT
A LAW.
A LAW. >> LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
IN THE REPORT WE SAID, MOST OF
THE PEOPLE ARE FLEEING VIOLENCE.
WE DON’T KNOW THAT.
WE DON’T KNOW THAT.
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAS POINTED
OUT IN ITS REPORTING, SOME OF
THE FOLKS ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE
OF THAT AS AN EXCUSE TO JUST
FLEE BAD ECONOMIC CONDITIONS,
WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING WE GRANT
ASYLUM FOR.
ASYLUM FOR. AND THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO
ARE USING THE OPTICS OF THIS, BY
BRINGING CHILDREN, HOPING TO
MINIMIZE THEIR DETENTION TIME.
THERE’S PEOPLE EXPLOITING WHAT
WE’RE SEEING AT THE SOUTHERN
BORDER.
BORDER. THAT DOESN’T MEAN ALL OF THE
PEOPLE ARE EXPLOITING THE
SITUATION AT THE SOUTHERN
BORDER.
BORDER. I WANT TO ASK YOU, AMY, YOU HAVE
FOUR FORMER FIRST LADIES,
SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THIS.
LAURA BUSH SAYING THE POLICY IS
CRUEL, IT’S IMMORAL.
ROSALYNN CARTER SAYING IT’S A
SHAME TO THE UNITED STATES.
YOU HAVE JEFF SESSIONS SAYING,
IT’S NOT AS BAD AS NAZI GERMANY
BECAUSE YOU’RE KEEPING THEM
DOWN.
DOWN. >> DO NOT GO DOWN THE NAZI
ROUTE.
ROUTE. THAT’S RULE NUMBER ONE.
>> AS AN EMOTIONAL MATTER, IT
SEEMS LIKE THE PRESIDENT’S
CRITICS ARE WINNING.
>> YES.
>> YES. WE’RE SEEING BIPARTISAN
CRITICISM OF THE WAY THE POLICY
IS PLAYING OUT.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, JOHN CORNYN AND
TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN SENATORS
FROM TEXAS, ARE SAYING THIS IS
NOT THE RESULT THAT WE WANT, IN
TERMS OF SEPARATING CHILDREN
FROM THEIR PARENTS, AS THE CASES
ARE BEING ADJUDICATED.
IT SEEMS TO ME AN APPROACH WOULD
BE TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER
WHILE THE IMMIGRATION JUDGE IS
DECIDING THEIR STATUS.
AND WHETHER OR NOT THE JEFFREYRE
STATUS SHOULD BE GRANTED.
>> PRESIDENT TRUMP DOESN’T PLAN
FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE
SHOOT-FROM-THE-HIP POLICIES.
SHOOT-FROM-THE-HIP POLICIES. WE’VE SEEN IT REPEATEDLY.
>> MY FATHER IS RETIRED CUSTOMS
INSPECTOR.
INSPECTOR. WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS FIRST
ELECTED AND PUT THE BANS ON THE
SEVEN, SIX COUNTRIES, THE
PROBLEM WAS THERE WERE NO
RESOURCES AND NO TRAINING.
>> SO-CALLED MUSLIM BAN.
>> WE HAVE POLICY-FIRST AND
THERE’S A BACKFILL.
AND ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI.
REMEMBER HIM?
REMEMBER HIM? >> PLEASE.
>> PLEASE. YOU DON’T HAVE TO FINISH THAT
SENTENCE.
SENTENCE. NO ONE CARES WHAT HE THINKS.
>> HE’S BEEN CRITICAL OF HIS
FORMER BOSS.
FORMER BOSS. >> WHO CARES?
MY DOG HAS FEELINGS ON IT, TOO.
MEGAN, YOU TELL ME.
YOU HAVE THE POLITICAL MATTER.
AND PRESIDENT TRUMP RAN ON THIS.
HE WANTED A ZERO TOLERANCE
POLICY AT THE BORDER.
HE WANTED TO CRACK DOWN ON
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. AND SUP SOME OF HIS SUPPORTERS
ARE STILL WITH HIM.
HE HAS MAJORITY SUPPORT WITHIN
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, BUT NOT
WITHIN THE COUNTRY AT LARGE,
ACCORDING TO THE LATEST
QUINNIPIAC POLL.
QUINNIPIAC POLL. DOES HE HAVE ANY WIGGLE ROOM
HERE?
HERE? >> I THINK TO GO BACK TO THE
QUESTION OF WHY DON’T THEY JUST
KEEP FAMILIES AND THEIR
PARENTS -- WHY DON’T THEY JUST
KEEP THE FAMILIES TOGETHER?
I THINK WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE
THIS IS A REALLY COMPLICATED AND
MESSY SITUATION.
MESSY SITUATION. YOU’RE NOT JUST DEALING WITH THE
LAW, YOU’RE DEALING WITH COURT
RULINGS THAT SAYS YOU CAN’T KEEP
CHILDREN DETAINED, BY THEMSELVES
OR WITH THEIR PARENTS.
>> MORE THAN 20 DAYS.
AFTER 20 DAYS, YOU HAVE TO GIVE
THEM TO SOCIAL SERVICES OR PUT
THEM IN FOSTER CARE.
THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT ALLOWED TO
HOLD THEM FOR MORE THAN 20 DAYS.
>> THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION
TRIED THAT AND RAN INTO A COURT
RULING THAT SAID, YOU CAN’T DO
THAT.
THAT. >> THAT’S WHY SOME ARE SAYING WE
NEED A CONGRESSIONAL FIX.
YOU COULD HOLD THEM LONGER.
BUT IS THAT THE SOLUTION?
HOLD THE KIDS LONGER AS OPPOSED
TO FIND A FACILITY WHERE THEY
CAN STAY TOGETHER.
>> TED CRUZ’S PROPOSAL HAS A
14-DAY LIMIT.
14-DAY LIMIT. >> BUT ASYLUM CLAIMS TAKE YEARS
TO DECIDE.
TO DECIDE. >> WE NEED MORE RESOURCES AND
STREAMLINE THE PROCESS.
>> THEY SHOULD HAVE PLANNED
BEFORE ENACTING THE POLICY.
>> HOW MUCH IS THAT GOING TO
COST?
COST? >> IT COSTS MONEY TO ENFORCE THE
LAW.
LAW. >> WHERE IS THE PLAN OR THE
BUDGET FOR IT?
>> THE PROBLEM IS, THE FIRST
THING THEY NEED TO DO IS STOP
PROSECUTING PEOPLE.
PROSECUTING PEOPLE. MAKE THIS AN IMMIGRATION ISSUE
WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY.
SECURITY. >> THEY WOULD SAY THEY’VE DONE
THAT AND IT HASN’T WORKED.
>> ALL OF THE FIXES RELATE JUST
TO THE IMMIGRATION ASPECT OF
THINGS.
THINGS. THEY DON’T RELATE TO THE
CRIMINAL PROSECUTION ASPECT OF
IT.
IT. >> KEEP IT OUT OF THE CONTROL
COURT.
COURT. >> GO AHEAD, MEGAN.
>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, LISTEN.
WE DO HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT’S
COMPLICATED.
COMPLICATED. THE POLITICS AND THE LEGALITYIES
THAT SURROUND ALL OF WHAT
HAPPENS ON THE BORDER IS VERY
COMPLICATED.
COMPLICATED. WHAT’S NOT COMPLICATED IS,
BASICALLY, THE HORRIFIC CRIES OF
THESE CHILDREN THAT WE’RE
HEARING COMING OUT OF THEIR
DETENTION, THE IMAGES WE’RE
SEEING OF THE CHILDREN WHO ARE
BASICALLY BEING BREAST FED BY
THEIR MOTHERS BEFORE THEY HAVE
TO PART WITH THEM.
AND I THINK THE REAL QUESTION
MOVING FORWARD, ARE WE GOING TO
BE ABLE -- ARE WE GOING TO BE
ABLE TO USE THE UNCOMPLICATED
FEELINGS OF OUTRAGE?
ARE POLITICIANS, TRUMP AND
OTHERS, GOING TO USE THAT
LEGITIMATE OUTRAGE AND EMERGE
WITH SOME REAL INCENTIVES TO
FIND A PRACTICAL SOLUTION?
>> HISTORY WOULD SUGGEST, NO.
IT WOULD.
IT WOULD. WHEN HAS CONGRESS -- WHAT’S
THEIR TRACK RECORD IN GETTING IT
RIGHT AND COMING UP WITH GREAT
SOLUTIONS TO OUR MOST DIFFICULT
PROBLEMS QUICKLY?
PROBLEMS QUICKLY? I HATE TO BE A SINCYNIC --
>> THE ONLY THING THAT GETS DONE
IS WHEN THERE’S A DEADLINE.
THIS, AT A MINIMUM, IS CREATING
AN ARTIFICIAL DEADLINE THAT
SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.
>> YOU START WITH THE CRIES OF
THE CHILDREN, IF YOU ARE
ANTI-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
ANTI-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. YOU START WITH THE CRIES OF THE
CHILDREN AND SAY, THAT’S NOT US.