the detention of up to one million
weakers and other ethnic minorities by
china
in its xinjiang region is relatively
well known and something we've reported
on for more than two years now
what's less well known however is how
china is allegedly forcing some uyghurs
to spy
on uighur communities living abroad
correspondent matthias berlinga
met one such man who claims chinese
state security
asked him to spy on someone in istanbul
this man fled to germany
where he is awaiting the outcome of his
asylum application
but his story begins in his native
xinjiang
in china's north west
on arrival at the airport i was told to
wait at passport control
until everybody was gone then two
policemen pulled my jacket over my head
so i couldn't see anything they put me
into a car
and drove me away i had no idea where we
were going
ace amin was a shop owner selling
imported foods including halal products
in his hometown of corolla
in 2015 when he returned to xinjiang
from a business trip to malaysia
he was stopped at the airport and
brought to a detention center
they brought me into a room there they
sat me down at a metal table
and they tied my legs and my arms to it
then they tightened the cuffs until i
couldn't move it hurt
i stayed in this position for two days
we meet asa in an apartment in munich
germany
he says he was never told what he was
accused of his papers say he was
suspected of endangering state security
asa spent a month in detention then
suddenly he was released
but under one condition he had to agree
that he would work for chinese state
security
i thought i'd just say yes stay in touch
with them but i had no intention of
really working for them
that was an illusion after his release
aisay mean regularly met with an agent
who introduced himself as kurban he was
able to continue traveling abroad
he says in the beginning nothing
specific had been asked of him
and he maintains he never revealed
information on anyone
but it's impossible to verify these
claims
about one year later asa was detained
again
this time he was freed with a specific
request he was told to spy on a young
man in turkey
asa left for istanbul then he decided
not to return to china and went on a
webcast with this story
korban called after the show aired
he told me you decided to appear on this
show and talk
but you know that your family is here in
china
since then many of his relatives have
disappeared five siblings have been
arrested
asa's oldest brother was sentenced to 25
years in jail
other uyghurs gave him the news since he
cannot reach any of his relatives by
phone
no the chinese government has separated
us forever
my life wasn't bad i was in good health
doing all right financially
it was a happy life
i try to see the place where he used to
live an american colleague and i are
followed around closely
constantly harassed the villages in the
area seem eerily empty
and many houses have been sealed by the
authorities
before reaching aces village we are
stopped
two men say the coronavirus pandemic is
why they're blocking our way
then the chinese official tells us the
real reason
there are security guidelines for news
in xinjiang
you can't just walk around here and
interview people
so many people have been detained and
many disappear every day
where's this going to end
he answered america did not become
america without shedding a lot of blood
a lot more is going to happen here
and he remembers another thing about
corban once the agent had met with him
in istanbul
it became clear to him that qurban was
able to operate freely between turkey
and china
recently a former uyghur spy was shot in
the back on the street in istanbul
so acer decided to move to germany
how to gather information
this is he's waiting for his refugee
status to be approved
asa means things that he is relatively
safe here but he also knows
that he could be targeted anywhere
[Applause]
joining me now is she's the uk director
of the world uighur congress and she
joins me now from london miss mamut
how common is it for uyghurs to be made
to spy
on uighurs living abroad
it's very common it's not a new thing
it's been a long history china has been
trying to spy on
any oils living abroad
but the chinese government is already
accused of imprisoning up to a million
weakers
in detention camps in xinjiang why does
it need to spy on weakers abroad
well chinese government often accuse
euros
exile communities are
carrying out uh in their
own version of uh terrorist activities
spilitism and trying to
separate east turkestan from the
from china and that is one of their
theory
of uh persecuting
imprisoning oils even though you you
just mentioned about
million this is started from 2016 2017
but since the occupation 1949
the ccp has been persecuting euros
inside china and also monitoring any
auroras
living abroad now i'm wondering uh with
this atmosphere the way you describe it
how are weaker communities in exile
or living abroad how are they reacting
do they feel safe
no i know a lot of oils
a lot of including students
they don't feel safe when they left
china
especially the students who after
obtaining students with
visa there is terms and conditions
attached
when they uh left china so it is
a and all especially in during the
recent years uh we know since 2017
they banned oils travel abroad but prior
to that time
the students were also suffering and
even the people who came uh for just
to visit other countries they were also
asked to um to spy on others
so this is a very common thing uh
for me even even for me
it seems incredible and
unbelievable it's simply it's very
difficult to
understand why uh the ccp
have to push or forcing these errors
and including some chinese from the
region
we have actually uh some credible
um credible information some
han chinese who came to eur europe
and they were also forced to to to spy
on the
anger and in some cases
when people went to the chinese embassy
to extend their passport
and uh also they there was a condition
and so if you can spy on if you work for
us
then we can extend your passport that
was a kind of common common situation
briefly do you think governments are
aware of this problem and if so are they
taking action to counter it
i think governments gradually now are
aware of what is happening uh but
not yet taken any concrete actions
but i know from like in sweden
uh a man called the babur was arrested
in 2010
because of his activity spying
activities
and i also know several others in
germany
that was arrested as well but um
the this situation
is so widespread and i do believe other
countries
should take more concrete action to
protect the oils
and especially protect the oil activists
like myself
yes hoping that that happens director of
the world uighur congress
thank you so much for speaking to us
thank you it's pleasure