>> The cube presents,
Dell technologies world,
brought to you by Dell.
>> Hey everyone.
Welcome back to the Cube's live coverage
of Dell technologies world 2022
from the Venetian in Las Vegas.
Lisa Martin here with Dave Valante.
Dave, this is our second day.
Lots of conversations.
We've been talking a lot about apex,
multi-cloud,
edge,
resilience, cyber resilience.
>> It is a number one topic actually.
I mean, a lot of multi-cloud talk obviously, too.
But I think security is the hot topic at the end.
>> It is a hot topic
and we've got two guests
joining us from Dell technologies.
We're going to unpack that
and talk about some of the great new things
they are enabling.
Please welcome.
One of our alumni,
Mihir Maniar, vice president at Dell technologies
and Arun Krishnamoorthy,
global strategy, resiliency and security
at Dell technologies.
All right guys,
welcome to the program.
>> Pleasure, meeting you, Lisa and Dave.
>> So ransomware, it's a household term.
I'm pretty sure my mom even knows what ransomware is.
>> Exactly. >> Legitimately.
>> Yeah.
>> But I mean, if you look at the numbers,
a ransomware attack is happening once every 11 seconds.
The numbers, the stats say, you know,
an estimated 75% of organizations
are going to face an attack,
75%
by 2025,
it's around the corner.
So it's no longer a matter of,
are we going to get hit?
if we get hit, it's when?
and that resiliency
and that recovery is absolutely critical.
Talk about some of the things there,
Dell's comprehensive approach
to helping organizations really build resiliency.
>> That's a great point.
So if you go to see, organizations are going to get hit,
if not already, 75% already out there.
And then we find that through research,
a lot of our customers
need a lot of help.
They need help because security is really complex.
I mean, they have a tough job, right?
Because there's so many attacks happening at the same time.
One single ransomware incident can cost them
on an average 13 million dollars.
They have to integrate 50 plus different security vendors
to go and build a secured defense in depth,
kind of a mechanism.
They're liable to the board.
At the same time,
they have lines of business that are talking about,
hey, can you provide me security,
but make sure productivity doesn't get impacted.
So it's a tough role for them.
And that's where Dell services comes in,
where our Dell managed security services.
We have a full comprehensive suite of offers
for our customers to help them, right.
To remain secure.
And we're focused on the services based on a NIST framework.
So I can talk more about the NIST framework
as hobby, go about doing.
>> There's a lot of talk in the community about,
should I pay the ransom?
Should they not pay the ransom?
And I suppose your advice would be
well pay up front
and avoid the ransom if you can.
Right?
>> Absolutely. >> Yeah.
Yeah, Dave,
what we've seen is the ransomware payment
has been very unreliable.
We know of many, many examples
where either they paid the ransom
and they were not able to recover data
or they got the decryption keys
and the recover process was too slow.
So we are all about helping customers understand the risks
that they have today
and giving them some pragmatic technology solutions.
>> Talk about that conversation,
where is it, Arun,
happening at the customer level
as security is a board level conversation.
>> Right.
>> Are you still talking with the CIOs
in lines of business?
Who all is involved in really understanding,
where all these vulnerabilities are
within an organization?
>> Yeah, so that's a great question.
So we work with CIOs,
we work with CSOs, a lot more
and the CSOs actually are facing
the skills shortage problem.
>> Yes.
>> That's where they need actually help from,
vendors like Dell.
And talking about ransomware,
if you go to see a NIST framework,
it goes all the way from identification of threats
to prevention,
creating prevention measures
with different defense in depth.
How do you detect and respond to threats in time.
Because time is critical actually
and the recovering from threats.
So in that whole process,
it's better for customers
to have the full suite of security services installed,
so that they don't end up paying the ransomware
eventually, right.
To provide their whole defense mechanism.
>> So the adversary is very,
they're motivated,
they're well funded,
incredibly sophisticated these days.
Okay.
So how do you not lose,
if you're a customer.
What's the playbook that you're helping
your customers proceed with?
>> Yeah, it's a great,
so in the NIST framework,
as I mentioned before,
services are evolving around,
how do you identify the threats that exist
in the customer's network?
So we provide advisory services
and we provide
assessment of the customer's vulnerability, that exist
so we can detect those vulnerabilities.
And then we can build the prevention mechanisms,
once you detect those vulnerabilities.
This is all about what you cannot see,
you can't really defend against.
So that's where the whole assessment comes in,
where you can go and do a zero trust assessment
for the customers,
you know, entire infrastructure,
and then figure out
where those issues lie.
So we can go
and block those loopholes
with the prevention mechanisms.
And in prevention mechanisms,
actually we have a whole zero trust prevention mechanism.
So you can actually go and build out,
end to end defense in depth kind of security.
>> Arun, before the pandemic,
the term zero trust,
people would roll their eyes.
It was kind of a buzzword
and it's becoming sort of a mandate.
>> Yeah.
>> What does zero trust mean to your customers?
How are you helping them achieve it?
>> Yeah.
So, great question, Dave.
A lot of customers think zero trust is a product.
It's not.
It's a framework.
It's a mindset.
It helps customer
think through what kind of access
do I want to give my users,
my third party,
my customers?
Where does my data sit in my environment?
Have I configure the right network policies?
Have I segmented my network?
So it is a collection of different strategies
that work across cloud,
across data, across network,
across applications
that interact with each other
and what we are helping customers with,
understand what that zero trust actually means
and how they can translate
into actionable technology implementations.
>> How do you help customers do that?
When we know that,
I mean, the average customer has what,
seven different backup protection solutions,
all alone.
If we're talking about like data protection.
How do you help them understand,
what's in their environment now?
If they're talking about protecting applications,
users, data, network.
What's that conversation?
And what's that process like to simplify,
their protection so that
they really can achieve cyber resilience?
>> That's correct.
That's a great it question, Lisa.
One of the big issues we see with customers is
they don't know what they don't know.
There's data across multi-cloud,
which is great.
It enables productivity,
but it also is not within the four walls of a data center.
So one of the first things we do
is identify where customer's data is?
Where is their application live?
And then we look for blind spots.
Are you protecting your SaaS workloads?
Are you protecting your endpoints?
And we give them a holistic strategy on data protection.
And you bring up a great point,
a lot of customers have had accidental growth
over the years.
They started off with one tool
and then different business needs drove them
to different tools.
And maybe now is a good time to evaluate
what is your tool set?
Can we consolidate it?
And reduce the risk in the environment.
>> Yeah,
I dunno if you guys are be probably familiar with that.
I use it a lot, when I write,
it's an optive,
NSS eye test
and it says,
here's the security landscape, the taxonomy.
It's got to be the most complicated of any, in the business.
And so my question is ecosystem, right.
You've got to have partners, right.
But there's so many choices.
How are you helping to solve that problem
of consolidating choices and tools?
>> That's a great point.
So if you look at the zero trust framework,
which Lisa, you talked about.
In the zero trust framework,
we have few things we look at,
and that is through Dell's technologies
and partner technologies.
So we can provide things like secure access,
context based, right.
So which users can access which applications,
identity based.
The second one is,
which applications can talk to which applications,
for micro segmentation,
again identity based.
And then you have an encryption everywhere.
Encryption with data in motion,
data in rest.
Because encryption is super important to prevent hacks.
So, and then you have cloud workloads.
We have cloud workload protection.
So some of those things,
we rely on our partners
and some of them actually,
we have technologies in the house,
like Arun talked about the cyber resilience and the wall
that we have in house.
So we provide the end-to-end framework for our customers
for zero trust,
where we can go and identify.
We can assess,
we can go build it out for them.
We can detect and respond with our excellent MDR service,
that we came out with last,
just last year.
So that MDR service allows you to detect attacks
and respond automatically
using our AI enabled platform
that reduces the signal from the noise
and allows to prevent these attacks, right,
from happening.
>> Arun, question for you,
as we've seen the proliferation of cyber attacks
during the pandemic,
we've seen the sophistication increasing,
the personalization is increasing.
Ransomware is as service is making it,
there is no barrier to entry these days.
>> Right.
>> How has Dell technologies overall,
cyber resilience strategy evolved
in the last couple of years?
I imagine that there's been some silver linings
and some accelerations there.
>> No, absolutely, Lisa.
One of the things we recognized very early on
with big cyber attacks going on five years ago,
we knew that as much as customers had great technologies
to prevent a cyber attack,
it was a matter of when, not if,
so we created the first purpose built solution
to help customers respond and recover from a cyber attack.
We created innovative technologies to isolate the data
in a cyber wall.
We have immutable technologies that lock the data.
So they can't be tampered with.
And we also build some great intelligence based on AIML.
In fact,
this is the first and only product in the world
that looks it's backup data,
does full content indexing
and it's able to look for behaviors or patterns
in your environment
that you could normally not find
with signature based detection systems.
So it's very revolutionary
and we want to help customers
not only on the prevention side,
which is proactive.
We want them to be equally,
have a sound strategy on how they would respond and recover
from a cyber attack.
>> Okay.
So there's two pieces there, proactive,
and then if and when you get hit,
how do you react.
And I think about moments in cyber,
I mean, Stuxnet was obviously a huge turning point.
And then of course the SolarWinds
and you see that,
the supply chain hacks,
you see the island hopping
and the living off the land
and the stealth moves.
So it's almost like, wow,
some of these techniques have even been proactive.
You're not going to catch them. Right.
So you've got to have this,
you talked about the NIST framework multilevel,
but I mean,
customers are aware,
obviously everybody,
customer you talk to.
the SolarWinds,
But it seems like,
they're still sleeping with one eye open.
Like they're really nervous. Right.
>> Right.
>> And like, we haven't figured it out as an industry yet.
And so that's where solutions like this are so critical
because you're almost resigning yourself to the fact
that while, you may not find it being proactive.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> But you've got to have, you know,
it's like putting tapes in a truck
and driving them somewhere.
Do you sense that it was a major milestone in the industry?
Milestone, negative milestone.
And that was a turning point
and it was kind of a wake up call for the industry,
a new wake up call.
What's your sense of how the industry is responding?
>> Yeah. I think that's a great point.
So if you go to see
the verbiage is that it's not,
if you're going to get attacked,
it's when you're going to get attacked.
So the attacks are going to happen no matter what.
So that's the reason why the defense in depth
and the zero trust framework comes into play.
The customers have to have an end-to-end holistic framework,
so that they can have,
not just the defensive mechanisms,
but also detect and respond when the attacks happen.
And then as you mentioned,
some of them,
you just can't catch all of them.
So we have excellent incident response
and recovery mechanisms.
So if the attack happened, it will cause damage.
We can do forensics analysis.
And on top of that,
we can go and recover,
like the cyber recovery wall,
we can recover that data,
make them production again.
>> Right. Ready.
>> I guess. I'm sorry.
What I was trying to ask is,
do you think we've understand SolarWinds?
Have the industry figured it out?
>> Yeah.
You know, great question. Right.
I think this is where customers have to take
a pragmatic approach, on how they do security.
And we talk about concepts like intrinsic security.
So in other words,
you can do a certain activity in your environment
and punt the ball to some other team
to figure out security,
part of what Dell does.
You know, you asked the question, right.
There's a lot of tools, where do customers start?
One of the big values we bring to customers is
the initial awareness
and just educating customers.
Hey,
what happened in these watershed moment
with these different attacks, right.
Wannacry, stuxnet.
And how did those customers respond
and where did they fail?
So let's do some lessons learned with past attacks
and let's move forward with some pragmatic solutions.
And we usually don't overwhelm our customers
with a lot of tools.
Let's have a road map.
Let's do an incremental build
of your security posture.
And over time,
let's get your entire organization to play with it.
>> You talk about awareness,
obviously that's critical,
but one of the other things that's critical
with the cyber threats
and the what's going on today is,
the biggest threat vector still is people.
>> Exactly.
>> So talk to me,
about out some of the things
that you help organizations do.
When you're talking about,
from an awareness perspective.
It's training the people
not to open certain links, if they look suspicious,
that sort of thing.
How involved is Dell technologies with your customers
from a strategic perspective
about really drilling this into the end users
that they've got a lot of responsibility here.
>> Yeah, if you go to see phishing
is one of the most common attack vectors
to go and infiltrate these attacks.
So Dell has a whole employee education program
that they rolled out.
So we all are aware of the fact that clicking on links
and phishing,
is a risk factor.
And we are trying to take that same message to our customers
through an employee awareness training service.
So we can actually provide education for the employees,
from getting these phishing attacks happening.
>> Yeah.
That's really critical because as I mentioned,
we talked about the sophistication,
but the personalization,
the social engineering is off the church these days.
And it's so easy for someone to,
especially with all this distractions that we have going on.
>> Right. >> If you're working from home
and you've got kids at home
or dogs barking and whatnot.
It's easy to be fooled into something
that looks incredibly legitimate.
>> Yeah,
Yeah.
>> You know, you bring another great point, right.
You can keep telling people in your environment,
don't do things, don't do it.
You create a friction, right.
We want people to be productive.
We want them to use different access
to different applications,
both in house and in the cloud.
So this is where technology comes into play.
There are some modern malware defenses
that will help customers,
identify some of these email phishing,
spear phishing.
So they are in a better prepared position.
And we don't want to curb productivity,
but we want to also make a very secure environment
where people can work.
>> That's a great point is,
that it has to be frictionless.
>> I do have a question for you guys
with respect to SaaS applications.
I talk to a lot of customers,
using certain SaaS applications
who have this sort of,
there's a dual responsibility model there,
where the SaaS vendor's responsible for the application,
protection.
But Mr. And miss customer,
you're responsible for the data.
We are?
>> Yeah.
>> Are you finding that
a lot of organizations are going help.
We've got Google workspace, Microsoft 365,
Salesforce
and it's really incredibly business critical data.
Dell technologies help us protect this
because this is a vulnerability that we were not aware of.
>> Absolutely.
And that's why we have the backup service with apex.
Where we can actually have SaaS data,
which is backed up,
using our apex solution for backup recovery.
So, yes, that's very critical.
We have the end-to-end portfolio for backing it up,
having the vault,
which is a air gap solution,
recovering from it,
when you have an attack.
And I think the value prop
that Dell brings to the table is,
we have the client side
and we have the data center side, right.
With the multi-cloud.
So we provide a completely hardened infrastructure
where, all the way from supply chain
to secure OS, secure bot
and secure image.
Everything is kind of harden
with stick hardening on top of that.
And then we have the services layer
to go and make sure we can assess the risks.
We can detect and respond.
We can recover, right.
So that we can keep our customers completely secure.
That's the value prop that we bring to the table
with unmatched scale of Dell services, right.
In terms of the scale that we bring to the table,
to our customers and help them out.
>> Well, it's an interesting opportunity,
and it's certainly,
from a threats perspective,
one that's going to persist,
obviously we know that.
Great that there's been such a focus
from Dell on cyber resiliency for its customers,
whether we're talking about multi-cloud, On-Prem,
public cloud,
SaaS applications, it's critical.
It's a techno.
It's a solution that every industry
has to take advantage of.
Guys, thank you so much for joining us.
Wish we had more time.
I could talk about this all day.
>> Yes. >> Thank you.
>> Great work going on there.
Congratulations on what was going on with apex
and the announcement.
And I'm sure we'll be hearing more from you in the future.
>> Excellent. Thank you, Lisa. >> Thank you very much.
>> We are super excited about Dell services
and what we can bring for manual security services
for our customers.
>> Great. >> Excellent.
>> Appreciate it. >> Thanks, guys.
>> Thank you.
>> For our guests and for Dave Valante.
I'm Lisa Martin.
And You're watching the cube,
live from day two of our coverage
of Dell technologies world,
live from Las Vegas.
Dave and I will be right back
with our last guest of the day.
(upbeat music)