Hello everyone and welcome to the Keep Productive YouTube channel, it is Francesco here today
I'm joined by Tiago Forte the founder of Forte Labbs. He
Consults all around the world with professionals maybe in the creative sector. Am I right in saying that?
yeah, yeah and you help these individuals to be more productive in their daily routine giving them frameworks and in
General structures to to really help themselves in entrepreneurship and arrange things
Maybe you can fill in a few of the gaps there, but I've missed
Yeah, of course. So so Forte labs is a consulting but really primarily a training company
So I have online courses three online courses
That have been taken by many people are in the world. I
Do live workshops and trainings for companies for nonprofits for government organizations?
And I do one-on-one consulting in one-on-one coaching. So basically every form of teaching and training that is out there
I try to do at least dabble with
And it's all about training people like you said to be more productive
Using skills and techniques and really practical systems that they can really dig their teeth into instead of just you know concepts
That's it. I was making Thiago feel really old before we start the cool
By saying that I actually had one of his skill shred classes. I think it was there. Was it the GTD labs 21 days
It was get stuff done like a boss
Design, your workflow and double your productivity and 21 days
Yeah, I love that one. It's still available in your website, isn't it?
They this it's not on Skillshare anymore
but I'll link it in description because as I was saying it helped me so much with
When I was in school and helped me put the frameworks in so it was it was awesome
amazing and
Now I'm reviewing productivity apps
We're here today it's chat a little bit about Evernote
Obviously the last couple of months have been up and down for Evernote. You've been the longtime user right? I
Have yeah, it's been maybe really since I since I arrived in the Bay Area which was in 2012. So good six years. Yeah
and I've been a big user of evident for a while when and
How in the last few weeks obviously, it's been a bit tricky to work out
What is the news and what's not and what's your sort of take on it at the moment?
Yeah, okay good. So
I've done my own investigations talking to
You know many other users of course talking to some influencers and you know
certified Evernote consultants and culminating a couple weeks ago with a
Lunch that I had with Chris O'Neil who's the the CEO of ever house? And
my
Takeaway from all that. Is that this whole
quote-unquote crisis is just
Completely made up that there's really I mean it's very normal
It's a very normal part of the evolution of a business
Especially one that's been around for a decade like ever known who pioneered the concept or the category
So you have restructurings and that includes layoffs it includes
Executives getting your place it includes changing the direction of the business. I mean all that stuff is super super normal
It's just I think there's no other notes apps that have been around long enough to reach this stage of maturity
yeah, definitely and I think from like
My sort of perspective from like like do covering everything and other people's that I've talked to in the community
I think it's because of the way that it's been put out in the media
It's sort of one sided to some extent because there's not really been too much from Evernote side
Is is that something that people should be aware of that? You know, there is potentially one sided at the moment
Yeah, I think you know it's interesting because Evernote is unique in the size of its user base. I mean, it's just it's just massive
225 million users
and only a small percentage of those are you know paying customers but still
You know that the number of countries they operate in the number of demographics the number of languages you can't
You can't really be
It's like they have to present a very unified front to be very consistent in their messaging
So it doesn't really make sense for them to be on Twitter answering people, you know
You know 280 characters that will of course be misinterpreted and taken out of context
It doesn't make sense for them to be actually too much in communication. Really
I think what matters is the product is actually coming out with new things
That's like the best answer to any criticism right now. And I think we've seen we've seen a few things like templates
and some small things but what I was really
Impressed by with with talking to Chris is his real passion and dedication to the product
You know
He comes from Google he he was the manager at the Google X kind of
experimental division at Google which he massively grew and increased in science, and he really, you know
we got into the weeds about like
I'm not good. I can't say any specifics cuz it's all gonna be in beta soon, but some really interesting like back in
infrastructural things that will never make headlines
But it's gonna have a huge impact on just like the day-to-day users and like reliability and stability and and stuff like that
So I think that they're they're refocusing on the product
which is which is I think what's needed and
And yeah, I have a lot of hope in their future direction
yeah, I mean there's such a well-rounded package and
It's a it's a shame that we're only hearing this one side of stuff
I mean
Where do you see Evernote in the next like let's say
3 to 5 years if you've got like a good idea of where they go in
ok, so here's where I go into specula peer speculation by
Adapting on the screen
Totally so none of this is based on any kind of insider or confidential information of any kind which I don't have any of that
But I really think so. I came across an
observation I think on some other blog which said that
Or maybe I never gonna plug actually, which said that ever know is the world's largest repository of unstructured data
Which is if you think about it make sense right like any database out there there
I'm sure there's larger basis but they're structured even like Google Docs Gmail is all very highly structured
Evernote notes data is unstructured
right you opened as we all know you open a blank canvas that you just start just start writing things down and
Copying and pasting things. So I think that what's exciting there is you know up until now unstructured data had so little value
Right because you couldn't make sense of it. I had no meeting. It had no no easy
Application. I think what we're gonna see now though is with the rise in the next few years the rise of machine learning
and machine learning being not just
something for experimental research labs in Silicon Valley, but you see you're starting to see features here and there that really
Take advantage of a new level of intelligence that these machines have
And so what's interesting is as machine learning gets more
Capable and accessible the value of unstructured data. It's higher and higher and higher
Right because you can search it you can
You can have like associations like Evernote has the context feature, you know where it gives you
suggestions for notes based on the current note
all those features are going to start to get highly intelligent and much more helpful than they'd been as
Machine learning gives more advanced so I'm pretty excited about that
It could be more like five to eight years for that to really go mainstream
But yeah, yeah. Yeah, I quite like the idea like the fact that
Obviously with the data protection all that in sort of blue
It's more that it could be crowdsource information to some extent
I think you were talking about on Twitter the other day weren't you about like a task manager that did something similar?
Yeah, I'm always I'm always spinning out my my imaginary tails on Twitter
But yeah, I think there's a sting where
it's like
Which of our online behavior is oriented towards what is novel?
What is sensationalistic?
What it's shallow what it's easy to understand easy to digest right?
And we don't really question that oh, of course
I log in and I go onto all these social media and other sites and then I just start reacting
Write react these innocent aeneas and gut checks
whether it's you know your what your friend ate for breakfast or the political news of the day and
that fact I think is I
Realize like a lot of problems
We're facing as a society everything from short attention spans to like the divisive myths in society and in politics
To people feeling which I hear a lot of that with their online behavior, you know, we're spending 11 hours a day consuming media
11 hours a day on our devices, but we're not really building anything with that time. Right? Like are you actually
building something
Durable value over time with the 11 hours a day. You spent online. I think I think most people they aren't
so I think maybe the answer your question in a three to five years or
More specifically, I think I hope there's gonna be a sea change and how people see notes apps
instead of being so oriented towards the public and the novel that they'll instead be more oriented toward the
private and the timeless
hmm, and that's basically the answer to the question I get so often which is why keep notes when I have Google
Hey, it's worth saving when I can just google and find the answer if there's something of value to just keeping this storehouse of
Insights and ideas and knowledge that over time. It's not what Google has it's not what everyone in the world has
It's you it's your private personal collection of knowledge
That's it
You refer to it a lot as the second brain and that's where a lot of your sort of research comes into place
How do you see Evernote fitting in that second brain? I mean obviously you've got the course that dives into it
But how do you see that all working together?
Yeah, so I really see the value
That Evernote gives me at least is being a default recommendation, right?
And actually I'm working now on I identified the 15
Key features that an app that the Notes app needs to have to serve as your personal knowledge management system your second brain
And then we went and gathered
You know at the top I think six or seven notes apps
which we made it like a feature comparison table like checking all the boxes and
That's almost ready
By the time this is out that will probably probably be available for free on our blog
So you can check it out but really almost like all those notes outs work fun every note app
we evaluated but pretty much fulfilled the criteria which makes me think it doesn't matter which
Notes help you to you so much
Right, like there's some little subtleties, but the important thing is that you're using one, right?
like if I have one message for your audience is
Don't let as important as it is to like do your homework and do your research and this is where you provide so much value
Is you can just watch some videos instead of spending countless hours researching?
Once you kind of pick one, that's good enough
That's that's just a good default invest in it. Don't get stopped and stuck on
Comparing features once you settle on one because what matters more is just that you're investing in one not so much which one we think
Yeah, definitely. You don't have to switch and change and sort of move. It's like moving house isn't it with?
Productivity apps you always for lifting loads of stuff that's already been there. I would definitely include that article blowing up
I would love to read it because I would love to know how you've sort of
Dissected what features make a note taker?
Obviously something that can't be ignored at the moment is is the the modular workspace apps they're coming out
What's your opinion on apps like?
There's notion and code that they're sort of bringing in
These apps that combine note-taking and task management and all that. Have you got any thoughts on those I do?
Okay, so here's my take on this
There there's this I haven't written called that before. You said magic what you call a modular modular
Productivity software. I think I don't know whether I heard that or I decided to call them that
I like that. So here's what I think
I think that there is a whole group of mince apps
That are rising or that are kind of rising up right now, and I think they're going after
Really the Microsoft Word slash Google Docs market, right?
It's like Microsoft was disrupted by Google Docs
But now even Google Docs sometimes feels a little bit little bit old, right and there's like the new disruptors. It's like this continuous cycle
And actually this new crop it up shouldn't go after that market
That's the way way way bigger market, you know off just office productivity collaborative productivity software
But that to me is not the same. It's not in all the same function that notes apps are trying to fulfill
Okay, right. So what I see when I use saying notion right is
so here's here's my fundamental belief is that you cannot optimize for your
Private use at the same time as you optimize for public use and collaboration like those are mutually incompatible
Right other thing is like your personal, you know think of like your desk at work, right?
It has like your little flower car your little pictures your pens. Just how you like them notebooks
Okay, that's all optimized for you
But by necessity that means it's not optimized for anyone to just sit down and be like, well, what's all this random stuff, right?
Yeah, so I think you have to use different tools for your private knowledge collection
You try the creative process and that tool will make very different design decisions and have different features
than the one that you use for public, you know for forward or for a
Word processing for publishing for collaboration. So to me that's notes apps over here and
Modular online collaborative, you know office apps over here. So I just think that people should choose different tools
I I agree with you that I think I struggle to like put that into words
But because it's because they're I don't really like go. A lot of the time Evernote is a replacement for notion because
they're very different to some extent because
Notion does work a lot more like Dropbox paper does or or Google Docs? Yes, that that's pretty dry
I like your take on it and
There's something else the real quick which is
What is a strength over here as a weakens over here, right?
So like people often complain about the sinking that ever enhance how they happen. So, you know, wait for it to sink
It's very very slow compared to say the real-time editing of Google Docs
But that has to be that way because of a strength which is the fact that all of your notes
Thousands and thousands of notes are stored on your local machine
So the fact that I can get on the plane and have my entire second brain here and my computer with me
right
which is an incredible benefit that
creates the situation of I need to sync the local data to the cloud, which takes longer I
Got it there. Yeah, that's quite yes. We need we need like a second conversation about just that that's gonna I
Love that see I'll go. Where can everyone find you after this go?
I'm everywhere. Just if you search for teh labs Twitter Instagram
That's fo RT e and then the second word L ABS
YouTube Instagram
LinkedIn Facebook Twitter and then my home my main website which links to everything else is Forte labs CEO
Comm dot CEO. Oh, wow. It's not the it's not the URL
Well, it's been great Avenue to yoga and I'll make sure to include them all below
But thank you very much coming on then. I'll catch you very soon. Anyway, it was a real pleasure. I just gonna thank you
Thank you. Bye